Yvyll said:
I want trivial fetch quests and the like.
Now before the pitchforks and torches come out, think about it. If I get resurrected into a new world, no one knows diddly-squat about me. Most folks will probably be wary of me since I'd most likely be a stranger. If I'm born into the world, I'm just a local. Nothing fancy, nothing spectacular.
I have to earn a reputation. I have to earn trust. Folks aren't going to throw epic quests at me because I'm some adventurer. I'm not going to (typically) go on some grand quest unless there is a reason. You have to build a reputation by building trust and this is where you have your menial labor. Get your hands dirty and kill 65,340,285 boars before you earn the right, the prestige, the confidence to embark on a grand adventure.
I'm sorry but I must pitchfork you quickly and quietly! ;)
I LOATHE these types of quests. Now there are ways to go about killing 65,333,243 bog rats and collecting 43,234 glimmering baubles without having mundane generic quests to do so just to build your notoriety. I don't like going to an NPC who asks you to go click 10 glowing piles of glass then return to him with said piles of glass. Then he asks you to go slay 25 orcs and collect their hides and bring them back. After doing that he sends you to his cousin Larry who then asks you to go click on 12 broken pictures hanging in the cathedral. These types of quests have no substance to me. And they're all for what? Just so I can get xp and/or notoriety?
The devs don't need individual mundane quests to kill 10 rats here and 8 goblins here then 12 skeletons there. Because all you need is 1 quest to be sent into a lengthy dungeon by some lowly king to slay the skeleton wizardlord who dwells there because it has stolen the king's crown. Along the way to the wizardlord there just happens to be 100s of werewolves and other mobs that you really can't get around without killing. Now, you kill the wolves, you kill the punk wizardlord, and return the crown to find out the lowly king is also a skeleton wizardlord who you have to kill as well. You get xp for the wolves and also for finishing the NPC's quest which wasn't just some mundane kill 20 wolves quest.Having 5 different NPCs who all give you kill x amount of baddies quests on top of clicking x amount of shiny nodes quests is a waste of dev's resources IMO. They are just filler to give players extra xp along their journey. Instead of having 5 different NPCs (most MMOs have double to triple digit amounts of these type of NPC quests) who give out these mundane quests just have bounties for specific mobs. Have an NPC or a bounty board found in a central location where you can go to repeatedly after killing however many mobs you want. This way, after you go to slay the skeleton wizardlord from earlier you now have 100 werewolf pelts to turn in to the bounty collector. In this scenario you get xp from the king's quest of returning the crown (and phat loots), you get xp for killing all the werewolves along the way (whom you didn't have to be told to kill from some mundane quest giver), and you get extra xp (and faction) for turning in all those wolf pelts (which you can just go back out and kill more to turn in for extra xp). All without having umpteen different NPCs send you this way and that way to kill x amount of baddies.
Lords no, dont make a class customized by adding 200 skills to fill up 20 hotbars with, not fun not interesting and promotes who can make best macro.
While i would love the ability to make my X class different from some one elses X class, that is a pretty tall order to get right :)
Also ability to work together regardless of race even if it means traveling alot at lower levels is a must.
Play nice policy enforced.
And more i cant remember atm heh.
Interesting point above: Play nice policy. Agree with that very much (although its probably not so much a mechanic/feature thing ;)
I am really looking forward to seeing Pantheon's travel mechanics in action, because travel makes a huge part of how "real" the world feels for me.
- on foot: should be slow unless speeded up by magic (like SoW or bard song)
- on mounts: fast and comfortable (that also means that NPCs that I aggro accidentaly shouldn't throw me off with a single hit). Ohh and while I like to have many possible mounts available, I think some other games have really gone overboard with making them a common reward for everything you do. In other words: make mounts attainable, but not super easily so.
- fixed ship/airship/griffon rides: I like these. Besides connecting islands/continents they can also be there for regular line traffic. This was a nice feature in Archeage for example, with airships connecting distant zones, and carts for in zone line traffic.
- personal ships: again, if you could make them a feature like in VG or Archeage, this would be amazing.
- personal flight: while I agree that real flight can make the world feel small, I still hope for some limited form of it. Like gliding in Archeage or Aion. It made these worlds so much more enjoyable!
I think it might be better to list the machanics we DON"T want to see.
First and foremost is any sort of quest indicator. No "!" over every other npc in a village. Make the player explore and talk to random npc to discover the quests. "?" to "!" is HORRIBLE gameplay.
Maps are another pet peeve of mine. I hate them. The concept of the mini-map always felt misplaced in the fantasy realm to me. Have people learn the landscape and identify the landmarks. Make it possible to get lost again and run blindly in fear if you mistakenly aggro a superior force.
But I do think it would be cool to have a Cartography tradeskill. Have players be mapmakers and let them sell there maps on the markets. These would just be maps of the area. They wouldnt show where on the map you are. Theres no GPS in whatever land this is.
Fast Travel: Please no flight paths. Make travel player based. EQ had it right with the Wizard and Druid travel. The game should not automatically do what the player base can do instead. When you have Port classes you provide a monetary source for those players and you also create player interaction. And player interaction is what fuels a quality game.
Please bring back the Corpse Recovery. If theres any one thing that has damaged the modern MMO, its that theres no reason to fear death. Corpse Recovery provided that fear, added that hesitation, and fueled the doubt. And again, caused players to rely upon each and build trust in each other.
Kilsin said:
Jason said:
^^^ What Amsai said above. Complex class/combat mechanics instead of button mashing classes. Give me tons of challenge but give me all the tools I need to deal with those challenges instead of just a few boring abilities I can button mash with but the game being so easy that it doesn't matter.
Yeah, I agree and that is why I am also an advocate for more abilities on my hotbar and stacking 5 hotbars if I want! lol
I want that freedom to setup my character and play it how I want with every one of his/her abilities available to me to choose from.
I want the same. If I am intelligent enough in real life to know the exact location and function of 50 abilities in front of me on several hotbars then I should be able to have that .Real life intelligence should be rewarded (though most of the time I am just a smartazz LOL ) It makes more sense in a way too, it's like in real life do you only remember a few things at a time even though you have been training your whole life in many abilities ? When I am studying Icelandic I don't forget the Spanish or German I know for example. Instead of limited hotbar space they could control things in a different manner such as with cooldowns . Some abilities could be so draining to use that they weaken you each time you use them and you have to recover or suffer the consequences.
Amsai said:
Just for clarification I just want more complex class concepts or different takes on typical classes. This doesnt necessarily mean 5 hotbars to me. I think that could be done with 1 hotbar. Its the increased activity and havingbto think im looking for. Though I think 5 hotbars excessive im not against 2-3 either. But when I say complex I speak of jobs like bard. Just a very active job with a lot going on. What I dont want is for instance a boring tank that basically consists of 5 or 6 abilities and rinse and repeat. My Ninja tank in XI used 4 full hotbars. And I had 3 other hotbars for special situations. Thats a loy more to juggle than XIs Paladin which was basically a handful of abilities. So yea just give me some classes with complex and interesting mechanis.
Oh absolutely Amsai, my 5 hotbar comment in reply to Jason was a purely personal thing, I like stacking hotbars for groups and raids, that doesn't mean that we will have enough abilities to fill those 5 hotbars and everyone needs to do it, you will most likely be able to fill 1 or 2 but if I want to create macros, add potions, food, clickables, scrolls etc. (which I like doing) then allowing me to turn on 3 more hotbars and spread my abilities and clickies out will not impact anyone else but it will make me happy. ;)
On a side note, I like a minimalistic UI when Crafting, Harvesting and Diploing, so I usually switch down to 1 bar and a pretty clear screen for those situations but having that option to turn more on is a good thing, options like that are just little things that make some people happy, it won't affect anyone else :)
Travel is important. More specifically, not trivializing the process. For me, its one of the factors that contributes most to the feel or immersive quality of the world. As soon as you can travel quickly and safely everywhere, the world seems small and trivial.
I'd like to see mounts that die if you run through dangerous areas without being careful. They had this in AA and it made sense. They also had it in Darkfall where your mount died permanently, but that is only possible when there is a way for people to raise or breed mounts. I'd personally love to see animal husbandry and/or taming be a tradeskill and mounts become a commodity.
Amsai said:
Yea I think most people can agree that having more options is always better. Especially on something as personal as UI. Along with that I still hope for multiple game controls and bindings. Mouse, Keyboard, Mouse and Keyboard, gamepad and KB, joystick and keyboard, joystick and mouse. Not demanding this by any stretch, its just I like options. Its also annoying when I cant keybind everything (and I mean everything).
The only problem with allowing Gamepad/Controller options is we then have to dull down the UI, abilities and hotbars to match, therefore, PC suffers, which we don't want at all!
If we go with a similar but more modern version of EQ/VG UI, it will be very hard to use a controller efficiently, especially in groups/raiding and reacting quickly, if at all and we don't want to lock you to 5 abilities ala ESO or GW2, so it may not be an option but Keyboard and Mouse which is traditionally used for MMORPGs will be completely covered with as many options as we can give.
Dullahan said:
Travel is important. More specifically, not trivializing the process. For me, its one of the factors that contributes most to the feel or immersive quality of the world. As soon as you can travel quickly and safely everywhere, the world seems small and trivial.
I'd like to see mounts that die if you run through dangerous areas without being careful. They had this in AA and it made sense. They also had it in Darkfall where your mount died permanently, but that is only possible when there is a way for people to raise or breed mounts. I'd personally love to see animal husbandry and/or taming be a tradeskill and mounts become a commodity.
I put forward a mount idea similar to this in a lot of detail quite some time ago, I really enjoy looking after my mount, feeding it, exercising it, keeping it safe, it should be a treasured companion that helps you travel around slightly faster than running but at a risk of it dying and you needing to either pay a lot of money, spend a lot of time raising a new one or completing a long and hazardous task to earn one and prove you are worthy of caring for one.
Homercles said:
I think it might be better to list the machanics we DON"T want to see.
First and foremost is any sort of quest indicator. No "!" over every other npc in a village. Make the player explore and talk to random npc to discover the quests. "?" to "!" is HORRIBLE gameplay.
Maps are another pet peeve of mine. I hate them. The concept of the mini-map always felt misplaced in the fantasy realm to me. Have people learn the landscape and identify the landmarks. Make it possible to get lost again and run blindly in fear if you mistakenly aggro a superior force.
But I do think it would be cool to have a Cartography tradeskill. Have players be mapmakers and let them sell there maps on the markets. These would just be maps of the area. They wouldnt show where on the map you are. Theres no GPS in whatever land this is.
Fast Travel: Please no flight paths. Make travel player based. EQ had it right with the Wizard and Druid travel. The game should not automatically do what the player base can do instead. When you have Port classes you provide a monetary source for those players and you also create player interaction. And player interaction is what fuels a quality game.
Please bring back the Corpse Recovery. If theres any one thing that has damaged the modern MMO, its that theres no reason to fear death. Corpse Recovery provided that fear, added that hesitation, and fueled the doubt. And again, caused players to rely upon each and build trust in each other.
^^^^^ Absolutely this. I could not agree more with it, especially the death penalty part, and I have been asking (okay, bitching and moaning) for it a while.
Also, I agree with what Amsai was saying with having some (not all) classes that have enough depth/potential that people have a little more range in how well the class can be played. Bards who play just one song, vs others who twist. Enchanters who mez occasionally vs ones who use their mez, stun, roots, etc as needed. I'd like there to be more to a good wizard than them simply remembering to keep some of their mana in reserve as a bad-pull-neutralizer.
IMO Minimal balancing is something that is critical to a long lasting game, and happier player base. Do the major tweaks in beta to get everyone pretty close, so at release there isn't much to do, and you can mostly ignore the mass of whiners who want to be made godly. Can't say how annoying it was to see blizzard play that nonsense with their classes, choosing a flavor for the month.
Homercles said:
I think it might be better to list the machanics we DON"T want to see.
First and foremost is any sort of quest indicator. No "!" over every other npc in a village. Make the player explore and talk to random npc to discover the quests. "?" to "!" is HORRIBLE gameplay.
Maps are another pet peeve of mine. I hate them. The concept of the mini-map always felt misplaced in the fantasy realm to me. Have people learn the landscape and identify the landmarks. Make it possible to get lost again and run blindly in fear if you mistakenly aggro a superior force.
But I do think it would be cool to have a Cartography tradeskill. Have players be mapmakers and let them sell there maps on the markets. These would just be maps of the area. They wouldnt show where on the map you are. Theres no GPS in whatever land this is.
Fast Travel: Please no flight paths. Make travel player based. EQ had it right with the Wizard and Druid travel. The game should not automatically do what the player base can do instead. When you have Port classes you provide a monetary source for those players and you also create player interaction. And player interaction is what fuels a quality game.
Please bring back the Corpse Recovery. If theres any one thing that has damaged the modern MMO, its that theres no reason to fear death. Corpse Recovery provided that fear, added that hesitation, and fueled the doubt. And again, caused players to rely upon each and build trust in each other.
^^^ I agree 110%. Especially the last two points. I believe EQ did have it right, frustrating at times, but still right. Risk vs reward. You want to raid Plane of Hate, grab a wizard to get there. One key memory early on for me, was when an invite came to me from out of no where asking if I could port to Plane of Hate (I just dinged level 46) from a larger raiding guild. I was so excited to go help them do a CR. I was needed, little ol'me at 46! And yes I was up until 3am (had to get up for work at 6am the next day). No I didn't get any gear that time. It was purely to help out and it made such a huge impact on me. You better believe I got invites to groups and raids from that guild going forward! This ties closely to CR's. I believe there needs to be a sting to death. Create opportunity to bring the community together to help out a fellow group/raid gone bad. Or to show kindness and generosity to a n00bie who mistakenly wandered into a camp of Ocrs much higher level then he/she and his corps is in the middle of the camp still. Go in and rescue it! You build memories, relationships and create a community that feels alive.
Homercles said:
I think it might be better to list the machanics we DON"T want to see.
First and foremost is any sort of quest indicator. No "!" over every other npc in a village. Make the player explore and talk to random npc to discover the quests. "?" to "!" is HORRIBLE gameplay.
Maps are another pet peeve of mine. I hate them. The concept of the mini-map always felt misplaced in the fantasy realm to me. Have people learn the landscape and identify the landmarks. Make it possible to get lost again and run blindly in fear if you mistakenly aggro a superior force.
But I do think it would be cool to have a Cartography tradeskill. Have players be mapmakers and let them sell there maps on the markets. These would just be maps of the area. They wouldnt show where on the map you are. Theres no GPS in whatever land this is.
Fast Travel: Please no flight paths. Make travel player based. EQ had it right with the Wizard and Druid travel. The game should not automatically do what the player base can do instead. When you have Port classes you provide a monetary source for those players and you also create player interaction. And player interaction is what fuels a quality game.
Please bring back the Corpse Recovery. If theres any one thing that has damaged the modern MMO, its that theres no reason to fear death. Corpse Recovery provided that fear, added that hesitation, and fueled the doubt. And again, caused players to rely upon each and build trust in each other.
The whole thread is actually about what your favorite mechanics are, this will not determine what we will be adding to the game, so I would rather hear your favorite things than what you don't want! :)
Danger is extremely important, and nothing says danger like having your corpse with all of your gear and exp tied to it laying where you died.
Imagine strolling up to a dungeon in (insert recent MMO's here) and being like, hmm I wonder what's down there, LET'S GO SEE GUYS! And off you go running down without a care in the world.
Now imagine strolling up to a dungeon in Everquest, I wonder what's down there? Maybe I had better get some friends before I venture any further, because if I die, I might lose everything I own, and all of today's exp.
It is important to note however that one of the biggest reasons why corpse runs are taboo to new MMO fans and a staple to old, is because most new players don't understand the balance of risk vs reward that was in EQ. The risk of losing your corpse may have been great, but the reward was much higher xp gain, and all of the loot in the game was found in risky locations, there was no easy quest you could go do for a full set of gear.
Kilsin said:
In-game mechanics and features, which ones are the most important to you in MMORPGs and why?
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonrotf/posts/1674062259474974
Nothing personel mate, but why can we not put the facebook stuff here? Why always the links. Facebook is the root of all evil and is virus infested therefor I do not use it.
Chaam said:
Kilsin said:
In-game mechanics and features, which ones are the most important to you in MMORPGs and why?
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonrotf/posts/1674062259474974
Nothing personel mate, but why can we not put the facebook stuff here? Why always the links. Facebook is the root of all evil and is virus infested therefor I do not use it.
I am putting it here to mate, I post the exact same thing on Facebook, these forums and Twitter. Everything that gets published by me or the team on Facebook gets posted here too. The only exception used to be screenshots on Brads personal FB account which he doesn't do anymore.
I don't like FB much either but I have a "Kilsin" account for gaming and VR work but it is a professional tool that helps us reach over 10k+ community members with the push of a button, so it helps us a lot, but you will never miss out on anything as I share them equally across the three platforms. Also this question that I posted on FB got a lot more replies (over 3.5k reach) than these forums, so I get to interact with more people this way.
When our new official site launches that will be our main platform but we will still post to FB and Twitter too, the wider the reach the more people we can tell about our game and the more feedback and information we can gather from our niche target audience.
It's good for everyone ;)
Kilsin said:
In-game mechanics and features, which ones are the most important to you in MMORPGs and why?
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonrotf/posts/1674062259474974
I posted this list back in August 2014 in a thread on immersion here: https://www.pantheonrotf.com/forums/topic/1130/fond-memories-and-anecdotes/view/post_id/11576, but I thought it was still relevant to this discussion. Some memorable mechanics that need to be included are as follows:
Raidan said:
I have listed some fond memories of the immersion that came from the listed minor/major mechanics being included in EQ. I could list an associated story for each one, which is what I realize the intent of this thread is... but that would take much too long, so I'll just add a snippit.
1. Early in EQ, having GMs warp to you to grant you your Surname. Don't recall when it changed to /surname. Had mine granted to me at Unrest - became almost like a mini-event.
2. GMs changing names like Creamofsumyounggui that break immersion. Self-explanatory, but there were quite a few bad ones that snuck in at launch.
3. Accidently hitting "A" or the autoattack key on an NPC and getting destroyed. Yeah, hate to admit it, but I've killed myself on bankers or food vendors a few times
4. TRAIN to zone with non-leashed mobs that will chase you to the end of time (or the zoneline). Added gameplay tactics in and of themselves. Just need to mention Unrest or Karnor's Castle here
5. Charisma/faction of vendors affecting the price of items bought and sold. Dangit, sold my fine steel and forgot to equip my Crude Stein! (+15 cha)
6. Wide level range of mobs within zones - i.e. Griffin being in East Commons added to the sense of danger. Self explanatory
Some mechanics that I've seen mentioned in other threads that I wanted to mention again here:
7. Encumbrance: Destroy that fine steel in the inventory, drop copper/silver? or keep it to make more money and risk dying due to crawling...
8. Food/water mattering: Anyone have any water? My mana won't go up!
9. Res effects: I can't move for like 5 minutes... but I just came back from the dead, small price to pay
10. Coin weight: Again see #7
11. Differing NPC factions (KoS status). Should I play a troll/ogre and be hated? Can people help me sell, buy food/water.. tons of added immersion from this that has been discussed in several other threads
12. Unique Spells/Skills: More exciting to get Shock of Lightning and Draught of Fire, than Fire I, Fire II - just lazy and less immersive
13. Day/night cycle: Immersive in and of itself, but also led to night-blindness (humans), ultravision as a racial skill mattering, and zones like Kithicor that had different mobs depending on the cycle - hug the zone walls!
14. No maps, no mini-map: Anyone see my corpse? Any bards/necros around to locate my corpse?
15. environmental sounds/music: Don't think I'll ever forget the dry bone skele cackle
16. Boats: LD and all, falling through and being eaten by sharks and my corpse being lost out in the ocean of tears - literally
17. Being able to "bound" anywhere (if caster) and cities if not caster. I always bound my characters at the Gfay zoneline since the whole zone was a "city" to run through Butcher to get to Unrest.
So many others I could list as well, but EQ did a lot of things right to add to the immersion and the anecdotes that happen as a result
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I love your story Deadshade, have an almost exact experience running naked as a Barbarian warrior from Halas to Greater Faydark.
Follow up to the original list - have some more time to kill, listed in no particular order.
18. Clickies that mattered and were memorable - basically became almost another form of advancement outside of experience by getting clickies for your class (although EQlive now has taken this concept too far): Jboots, Manastone, Circlet of Shadow, etc. I remember killing myself with a manastone, FD pulling with a Circlet of Shadow, agro kiting with JBoots...
19. As Jason stated, NPCs that mattered and were memorable. Sure, I remember Nagafen, Vox, etc. but I also remember the random newbie killers such as Corflunk in Butcherblock or Bugglegupp in Steamfont (See #6). And, the sense of satisfication I had when I leveled high enough to wipe the floor with the newbie killer. And that phrase, "Gnomes like you have ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine!" will be ingrained in my memory forever.
20. Contested Camps. Yes I realize there are those that hated the grind and the competition, but I loved it. Going deep into the dungeons and camping the named spawns that were contested (yes I realize that means everyone doesn't get a participation ribbon) was much more memorable than running instance XYZ, 100 times with everyone having the same gear. And, not everyone having the same gear leads to number 21...
21. Server Fame/Infamy. If you were a bad puller - people knew it. A Ninja looter, check, your reputation proceeded you. A great tank/healer/enchanter? people knew that as well. Also, people could tell your "status" by your unique looking gear. I realize some of this was due to EQ not having much of a loot table at launch, but it was obvious when someone had planar, epic, or high level gear. It also leads to #22....
22. Am I vain. XYZ is inspecting you.... Something simple, but many newbies were in awe of your gear and it would start conversations (community building) just based off checking out your gear. Short Sword of Ykesha, Awesome Sword!!!! Where's that from?
23. Corpse runs/exp loss. If this was in order, should be much higher than 23, but I actually forgot how scary it was until I loaded P1999 and began playing again recently - your heart rate really does race when trying to creep around constantly blasting F9 to change the views to make sure you're not going to draw agro. I.E. like running through Dagnor's Cauldron naked at 12 hoping Undertow skeles, tidal lords, or the random NPC camp doesn't make corpse recovery #2...
24. Druid/Wizard porting. Donating to BB/SF,WC,NK, Donations accepted, but never required!! How spoiled I became - it was almost like having my first cell-phone. Never wanted one until I got one. After my first port, I was hooked, no more boat travelling for me, I have high level druid/wizard friends! I do realize there looks like there will be 3 city ports in Pantheon, but I hope that they will not be immersion breaking, and there will be a use for druid/wizard (and/or other ports still). The player-made fast travel became an emerging market mechanic in and of itself.
25. Player skill. One of the greatest things that made me immersed in EQ's world was it's ability to reward skilled players by not nerfing (most) tactics that emerged. I almost immediately could tell if the player I was grouped with was "good." See #21. Simple emerging tactics such as root parking adds, a necro using drain heals on group members to help out healer mana or a ranger/paladin self healing, a bard twisting, etc.
26. No guides, hand holding, or directions. Just dropped in the world with a guild note and a dagger. I wasn't alt tabbing out to look at some Wiki (as there weren't any at that time anyway and pretty sure EQ would have crashed on my dial-up) - I was "In their world" and I wanted to explore, which leads to #27...
27. Sense heading and /loc (See #14). While having a /loc may not be the most realistic, I can't remember any other MMO that has made me more aware of my surroundings than EQ did. It's almost like driving with a Garmin versus just driving. With all the maps, guides, navigation tools available now in both RL and MMOs you just follow a point and click and follow a route. Whereas, in EQ, I became LOST, but in the end, understood and remembered the world that much more. And, now, I could still tell you how to run to pretty much anywhere and some of the landmarks that are within those zones.
Out of time though... I'm sure there are plenty more and will continue to add some more as I have time
Kilsin said:
Chaam said:
Kilsin said:
In-game mechanics and features, which ones are the most important to you in MMORPGs and why?
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonrotf/posts/1674062259474974
Nothing personel mate, but why can we not put the facebook stuff here? Why always the links. Facebook is the root of all evil and is virus infested therefor I do not use it.
I am putting it here to mate, I post the exact same thing on Facebook, these forums and Twitter. Everything that gets published by me or the team on Facebook gets posted here too. The only exception used to be screenshots on Brads personal FB account which he doesn't do anymore.
I don't like FB much either but I have a "Kilsin" account for gaming and VR work but it is a professional tool that helps us reach over 10k+ community members with the push of a button, so it helps us a lot, but you will never miss out on anything as I share them equally across the three platforms. Also this question that I posted on FB got a lot more replies (over 3.5k reach) than these forums, so I get to interact with more people this way.
When our new official site launches that will be our main platform but we will still post to FB and Twitter too, the wider the reach the more people we can tell about our game and the more feedback and information we can gather from our niche target audience.
It's good for everyone ;)
I have see all the responses you get to these questions on facebook - way more than here on the forums! Of course our answers are better ;) I'm with you Chaam, I do not like Facebook either. I have a mostly blank account that is needed every now and then to view things. Kilsin's Facebook posts are generating a lot of interest.
Raidan said:
Kilsin said:
In-game mechanics and features, which ones are the most important to you in MMORPGs and why?
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonrotf/posts/1674062259474974
I posted this list back in August 2014 in a thread on immersion here: https://www.pantheonrotf.com/forums/topic/1130/fond-memories-and-anecdotes/view/post_id/11576, but I thought it was still relevant to this discussion. Some memorable mechanics that need to be included are as follows:
Raidan said:
I have listed some fond memories of the immersion that came from the listed minor/major mechanics being included in EQ. I could list an associated story for each one, which is what I realize the intent of this thread is... but that would take much too long, so I'll just add a snippit.
1. Early in EQ, having GMs warp to you to grant you your Surname. Don't recall when it changed to /surname. Had mine granted to me at Unrest - became almost like a mini-event.
2. GMs changing names like Creamofsumyounggui that break immersion. Self-explanatory, but there were quite a few bad ones that snuck in at launch.
3. Accidently hitting "A" or the autoattack key on an NPC and getting destroyed. Yeah, hate to admit it, but I've killed myself on bankers or food vendors a few times
4. TRAIN to zone with non-leashed mobs that will chase you to the end of time (or the zoneline). Added gameplay tactics in and of themselves. Just need to mention Unrest or Karnor's Castle here
5. Charisma/faction of vendors affecting the price of items bought and sold. Dangit, sold my fine steel and forgot to equip my Crude Stein! (+15 cha)
6. Wide level range of mobs within zones - i.e. Griffin being in East Commons added to the sense of danger. Self explanatory
Some mechanics that I've seen mentioned in other threads that I wanted to mention again here:
7. Encumbrance: Destroy that fine steel in the inventory, drop copper/silver? or keep it to make more money and risk dying due to crawling...
8. Food/water mattering: Anyone have any water? My mana won't go up!
9. Res effects: I can't move for like 5 minutes... but I just came back from the dead, small price to pay
10. Coin weight: Again see #7
11. Differing NPC factions (KoS status). Should I play a troll/ogre and be hated? Can people help me sell, buy food/water.. tons of added immersion from this that has been discussed in several other threads
12. Unique Spells/Skills: More exciting to get Shock of Lightning and Draught of Fire, than Fire I, Fire II - just lazy and less immersive
13. Day/night cycle: Immersive in and of itself, but also led to night-blindness (humans), ultravision as a racial skill mattering, and zones like Kithicor that had different mobs depending on the cycle - hug the zone walls!
14. No maps, no mini-map: Anyone see my corpse? Any bards/necros around to locate my corpse?
15. environmental sounds/music: Don't think I'll ever forget the dry bone skele cackle
16. Boats: LD and all, falling through and being eaten by sharks and my corpse being lost out in the ocean of tears - literally
17. Being able to "bound" anywhere (if caster) and cities if not caster. I always bound my characters at the Gfay zoneline since the whole zone was a "city" to run through Butcher to get to Unrest.
So many others I could list as well, but EQ did a lot of things right to add to the immersion and the anecdotes that happen as a result
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I love your story Deadshade, have an almost exact experience running naked as a Barbarian warrior from Halas to Greater Faydark.
Follow up to the original list - have some more time to kill, listed in no particular order.
18. Clickies that mattered and were memorable - basically became almost another form of advancement outside of experience by getting clickies for your class (although EQlive now has taken this concept too far): Jboots, Manastone, Circlet of Shadow, etc. I remember killing myself with a manastone, FD pulling with a Circlet of Shadow, agro kiting with JBoots...
19. As Jason stated, NPCs that mattered and were memorable. Sure, I remember Nagafen, Vox, etc. but I also remember the random newbie killers such as Corflunk in Butcherblock or Bugglegupp in Steamfont (See #6). And, the sense of satisfication I had when I leveled high enough to wipe the floor with the newbie killer. And that phrase, "Gnomes like you have ruined your own lands, you'll not ruin mine!" will be ingrained in my memory forever.
20. Contested Camps. Yes I realize there are those that hated the grind and the competition, but I loved it. Going deep into the dungeons and camping the named spawns that were contested (yes I realize that means everyone doesn't get a participation ribbon) was much more memorable than running instance XYZ, 100 times with everyone having the same gear. And, not everyone having the same gear leads to number 21...
21. Server Fame/Infamy. If you were a bad puller - people knew it. A Ninja looter, check, your reputation proceeded you. A great tank/healer/enchanter? people knew that as well. Also, people could tell your "status" by your unique looking gear. I realize some of this was due to EQ not having much of a loot table at launch, but it was obvious when someone had planar, epic, or high level gear. It also leads to #22....
22. Am I vain. XYZ is inspecting you.... Something simple, but many newbies were in awe of your gear and it would start conversations (community building) just based off checking out your gear. Short Sword of Ykesha, Awesome Sword!!!! Where's that from?
23. Corpse runs/exp loss. If this was in order, should be much higher than 23, but I actually forgot how scary it was until I loaded P1999 and began playing again recently - your heart rate really does race when trying to creep around constantly blasting F9 to change the views to make sure you're not going to draw agro. I.E. like running through Dagnor's Cauldron naked at 12 hoping Undertow skeles, tidal lords, or the random NPC camp doesn't make corpse recovery #2...
24. Druid/Wizard porting. Donating to BB/SF,WC,NK, Donations accepted, but never required!! How spoiled I became - it was almost like having my first cell-phone. Never wanted one until I got one. After my first port, I was hooked, no more boat travelling for me, I have high level druid/wizard friends! I do realize there looks like there will be 3 city ports in Pantheon, but I hope that they will not be immersion breaking, and there will be a use for druid/wizard (and/or other ports still). The player-made fast travel became an emerging market mechanic in and of itself.
25. Player skill. One of the greatest things that made me immersed in EQ's world was it's ability to reward skilled players by not nerfing (most) tactics that emerged. I almost immediately could tell if the player I was grouped with was "good." See #21. Simple emerging tactics such as root parking adds, a necro using drain heals on group members to help out healer mana or a ranger/paladin self healing, a bard twisting, etc.
26. No guides, hand holding, or directions. Just dropped in the world with a guild note and a dagger. I wasn't alt tabbing out to look at some Wiki (as there weren't any at that time anyway and pretty sure EQ would have crashed on my dial-up) - I was "In their world" and I wanted to explore, which leads to #27...
27. Sense heading and /loc (See #14). While having a /loc may not be the most realistic, I can't remember any other MMO that has made me more aware of my surroundings than EQ did. It's almost like driving with a Garmin versus just driving. With all the maps, guides, navigation tools available now in both RL and MMOs you just follow a point and click and follow a route. Whereas, in EQ, I became LOST, but in the end, understood and remembered the world that much more. And, now, I could still tell you how to run to pretty much anywhere and some of the landmarks that are within those zones.
Out of time though... I'm sure there are plenty more and will continue to add some more as I have time
Nice points mate, thanks for putting this together and reposting the list :)
Zarriya said:
Kilsin said:
Chaam said:
Kilsin said:
In-game mechanics and features, which ones are the most important to you in MMORPGs and why?
https://www.facebook.com/pantheonrotf/posts/1674062259474974
Nothing personel mate, but why can we not put the facebook stuff here? Why always the links. Facebook is the root of all evil and is virus infested therefor I do not use it.
I am putting it here to mate, I post the exact same thing on Facebook, these forums and Twitter. Everything that gets published by me or the team on Facebook gets posted here too. The only exception used to be screenshots on Brads personal FB account which he doesn't do anymore.
I don't like FB much either but I have a "Kilsin" account for gaming and VR work but it is a professional tool that helps us reach over 10k+ community members with the push of a button, so it helps us a lot, but you will never miss out on anything as I share them equally across the three platforms. Also this question that I posted on FB got a lot more replies (over 3.5k reach) than these forums, so I get to interact with more people this way.
When our new official site launches that will be our main platform but we will still post to FB and Twitter too, the wider the reach the more people we can tell about our game and the more feedback and information we can gather from our niche target audience.
It's good for everyone ;)I have see all the responses you get to these questions on facebook - way more than here on the forums! Of course our answers are better ;) I'm with you Chaam, I do not like Facebook either. I have a mostly blank account that is needed every now and then to view things. Kilsin's Facebook posts are generating a lot of interest.
The FB page is so much fun and has great interaction with such a large range of supporters, it's like a full-time job replying to everyone, but I really enjoy it :)
FB isn't for everyone, but it is a very valuable business tool for us as the majority of people do have a FB account and interact with us on a much larger scale.
Yvyll said:
I want trivial fetch quests and the like.
Now before the pitchforks and torches come out, think about it. If I get resurrected into a new world, no one knows diddly-squat about me. Most folks will probably be wary of me since I'd most likely be a stranger. If I'm born into the world, I'm just a local. Nothing fancy, nothing spectacular.
I have to earn a reputation. I have to earn trust. Folks aren't going to throw epic quests at me because I'm some adventurer. I'm not going to (typically) go on some grand quest unless there is a reason. You have to build a reputation by building trust and this is where you have your menial labor. Get your hands dirty and kill 65,340,285 boars before you earn the right, the prestige, the confidence to embark on a grand adventure.
I'm ok with intro quests and lore explanation. I really don't want to do much questing for XP though, I want that to be done in a group - with significant xp bonuses for grouping. I like the idea of the first 10-20 levels being semi-guided with some token quests.