First off, I did a search and didn't see any topics pertaining to this, so if this is a re-hash of a discussion I apologize. Pretty new around here so I haven't been privy to many older threads. My question is fairly simple, do you all prefer leashed or unleashed mobs in Pantheon. Personally, I loved having unleashed mobs that would chase me to the ends of the earth (or zoneline, hah) for a few reasons. It made me think very carefully about my route through dangerous areas, knowing that if I did aggro something formidable, I was likely toast, adding a sense of danger and excitement to travel Secondly, though I realize and love that Pantheon is a group-centric game in the same vein as EQ1 and Vanguard, I always thought it was awesome that there were those few classes that, with some creativity could handle big bad mobs through a long solo kite. To me this was just one more thing that added flavor to those worlds and helped develop a stronger sense of class identity, allowing some classes, who may be weak in many respects, to do something other classes couldn't dream of (albeit with an often high level of risk vs. reward). With strict mob leashing this would be impossible, as would long pulls, trains to zone (which I consider a positive, it a dangerous world.. keep your head on a swivel), etc. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this. And again if this has been beaten to death elsewhere please feel free to publicly shame and/or berate me, thanks!
So this is my personal opinion... I love unleashed mobs... however...
I wouldn't mind a system that is a bit more complex. Meaning that there is leashing depending on certain factors. Some of these factors would be type of npcs, speed of npcs, reason for chasing you.
For instance, if you run into a pack of rabid wolves... they would probably be able to run much faster than you and running wouldn't do you any good, along side the fact that they are pretty hungry wolves and won't give up the chase that easily when their survival is on the line.
Another example would be a merchant that you hit for a small amount of damage, maybe by mistake or just testing him. He might not be that upset with you and would chase you off though wouldn't chase you across an entire zone leaving his valuable wares unattended.
If a creative system can't be made easily... then unleashed lol...
I hate leashes... I understand them in a game without zoning - but I hate them. Without leashing - getting too much agro is a moment of fear. You feel like you are running for your life... and you ARE!
With leashes - you feel annoyed that you have to run away from a mob... again...
There's no fear - fear is knowing that zone line is safety. There is just annoyance... "Bah - I have to run again."
Having said that - I think a cool idea would be to use a leashing sort of mechanism to have some mobs - in effect - pull you. So maybe you want to pull a mob out of a camp, and it might come a little way, but then it stops... as you come back toward it, it backs a little farter into it's camp, etc...
That sort of thing might be fun.
Agreed Wandidar, some cool features that could be added to more intelligent mobs. I didn't think about that one, though that would be interesting. I would also like to see NPCs run if they fear their life is in danger and they can't defend themselves. Humanoid npcs being gang banged for instance lol
I think this is more complex than just a yeas or no. If I am a bard that travels a little less than the speed of light, I think it’s ridiculous to assume a slow creature will stay on me even if I am a mile ahead of him, to only find me twenty minutes later. I think distance should be a factor involved, especially in larger outdoor zones. You could also add something that makes it so NPCs with a “working” brain will give up after a bit where something without a working brain might follow you a lot longer aka zombies, skeletons....
Now I know we are talking about leashes from spawn points but I like to add in that I am not a fan of mobs that are leashed together other then maybe a very rare boss. Having 4 bee’s leashed together to give the appearance of a swarm is dumb. Each should be an equal mob. Packs of leashed creature just promote AE damage which is one of the sins of the mmo worlds.
I don't think there should ever be a system where: mob travels X meters from its place of initial aggro = leash. I wouldn't be against a mob deaggroing if you were a certain distance away from them, but I also don't think there should be many scenarios where you can get that far away from a mob. Even with magic effects, I've never liked the idea of increasing movement speed so dramatically that you could easily flee mobs or trivialize traveling, but that's a whole different discussion.
If there was a way to de-aggro a mob that was a say 100 meters from you and/or out of line of sight, that would be great. The distance could differ depending on the type of mob. An animal may have keener vision or other senses and would pursue further. However, finding a way of coding that to prevent abuse might be a challenging matter.
A few made up rules that could be interesting would be:
A humanoid 60-100 meters away, may randomly disengage (I like randomness - cuz you just never know).
Undead may chase haunt you until you zone away.
A predatory animal beyond 100 yards will continue stalking you at random speeds as if tracking your scent.
A passive animal will chase you until 100-150 yards away before disengaging.
It would also be neat if things like terrain cover (like grass, trees, objects) factored into the equation. Would also be nice to see this sort of thing effect aggro radii. (another topic worthy of discussion)
Completely unleashed. While I applaude others for their outside the box thinking, a lot of it can be abused. For instance in Darkfall, the mobs were claimed to be "intelligent" and would attempt to dodge your arrows when you shot at them, while this was hilarious at first, it led to mobs being exploited and often times just plain bugging out because multiple people were shooting at them.
The idea is great but the application of more complex NPC mechanics is a tall order.. and outside the initial release budget of Pantheon I would figure. Stick to completely unleashed at launch, and if the game is popular down the road with an expansion maybe you could do some tune-ups of the AI.
I very much want mobs to stop chasing eventually. Lets face it...there are situations in which you get aggro where you simply can't do anything about it, but where you absolutely don't want to fight. Having to zone in such situations to loose aggro is EXTREMELY lame and stupid, and totally breaks immersion for me.
Maybe such a leash should not be based on distance, but instead on "time without contact", meaning if the mob cannot attack you for x seconds it will leave you alone (I like the idea of different mobs chasing you for different times before they leash). SOME mobs may never let off, and that would be ok. Undead for example...these might chase you until you kill them or zone. But the vast majority of mobs should eventually lose interest if they cannot reach you.
That also hangs a bit on the topic of different runspeeds for mobs. Should all mobs have the same speed? I hope they won't! And should all mobs be faster than players? Again, I hope not! Some mobs certainly (wolves for example) you wouldn't have a chance to outrun, but others you should.
My personal thought is unleashed mobs for quite a few reasons a few of which i will share here.
1. Pulling is much more important, and i role i think has been lost in many games along the way. FD pulling bard pulling etc etc was a skill... a hard skill to master. In incorporation with mob potency it makes it where when you pull to many you die, which you should, and painfully. You should not just be able to aoe down everything unless you are very very overgeared as a group to accomplish this. Also it adds group dynamics where bringing certain classes like a mezzer/crowd control or a dedicated puller is needed in more than just raid or high end situations.
2. Training. Many of us remember trains in crushbone or estate of unrest or guk or many other places in many games. I allows older more experienced/higher level players to help a lower player in trouble and keep them from dying or a group from wiping which creates a comaradarie and a social dynamic can blossom from this type of interaction. On top of this, it creates a sense of danger and promotes people being careful of when how and where they pull mobs... how many, which way and how much.
3. If someone is mad at you, why would the stop if you are an easy kill just because you ran 30 feet that way..... it's silly.
4. I also think that zone lines whether they are instanced or open world, where zone lines still exist those mobs should break, at some point... probably depending on the mob itself. A skeleton isn't particularly interested in chasing you a million miles for copper it has no use for. An orc however... has much more to gain from your gold so every mob should and could/can be different.
5. It creates more options for solo ish players to solo and find unique ways with which to accomplish that goal.
6. It adds immersion.
My random quick thoughts on leashing ;)
I'm all for unleashed. Kinda reminds me when WoW was a little more decent.
No leashes. No tagging of mobs either. No I-hate-only-the-person-who-annoyed-me aggro lists that prevent any form of training. Give us mobs that don't forget easily, and a reason to run for our lives -jumping along the way to gain what little speed we can- (and a real death penalty that makes us actually CARE about living, not simply shrugging it off with an "oh well").
Don't get me wrong, I don't WANT training, but I don't want the mindless game (yet again) where the developers enable players to be in their own mini-game since all reasons/factors are taken out of paying attention to your surroundings/world you live in.
I want to have to decide things again.
A current game player looks at new mobs, and doesn't give much consideration or hesitation, full mana yet? who cares. Any other players nearby to be careful for ? why bother. So nukes away, and either they kill it or he can just leash them in a few seconds of running. Or worst case he dies and is back again in under a minute with a slap on the wrist.
With the end result of either more exp, more loot, or too difficult.
An old game player looks at new mobs, and stops to consider:
No, literally (c)onsider the mobs, their color and appearance. ;)
Does he/she have all their buffs, full mana, etc.
Is anyone else pulling them? something to gage difficulty on.
Does he/she remember passing groups from the zoneline to where they are now - incase they have to run for their life.
Are there people nearby who might be in the way if they have to try and kite.
It's been a while since their did something foolish/stupid, do they really need to pull more mobs inbetween spawns and risk dying?
Oops, their mobs spawned again, gotta clear those.
Okay, back to the new mobs. Full mana - check. /who, no bystanders - check.
With the end result of more exp/more loot, good faction hit.
BAD FACTION HIT @#%$@%.
Mob's too strong and training to zone "CHOOCHOOO TRAIN COMING THRU" cuz you know you have to train people, there's no choice here, dying isn't fun, and everything else is an option before dying, BUT at the same time you spam your train macro because you don't want to train without notice - that's rude. (if you're young, announcing your train is a huge difference)
or worst case, dying, learning your lesson, and resetting your doing-something-stupid timer for a while. And when you see another group/person go to pull those in the future, you know to move to the side ahead of time and wait for the show. Then remembering dying sucks and you decide to invis just to be extra cautious.
