Niien said:
I would prefer my items being destroyed before they are bound to me or to the point I can't hand it out freely at my own will. So I would opt for a system where high end raid gear is BOP and everything else is trade-able with durability.
Again? why must we have freedom except for raid gear? If items are tradable then items are tradable, top to bottom.
Buying the Sword of the coolone from an NPC you did not earn from a group encounter is no fundamentally different than buying the sword of the Ultimatcoolone from a raid encounter I did not fight. We are grasping at semantics here, that a group encounter is any different from a raid encounter when you did not earn the reward. A solo player buying a sword only gotten from a 6 man group encounter is just as unearned as a 6 man group buying the BP drops from a 24 man raid encounter.
Strykr619 said:
Item binding should be reserved for game unique items.... aka quest required or Everquest epic weapon type items.
This I fully agree with, epic items should be BoP as every drop required to be handed in to get it. This represents the pinnacle of the class and game items, in a freedom of trade item world, this would be the only one arguably BoP, but even then, why? The person who worked so damn hard to get it, why can they not be granted the right to sell it? Who are we to dictate what is tradable or not? We have argument after argument of people wanting free trade, but yet they then demand that special items to *them* be not tradable.
Again seriously, we can't come here and fight for a free trade world, then demand a no free trade world. So I say if that's what people truly want, they truly deep down want a world of free item trade, then we get it, every single item can be traded infinitely.
I could go either way on the BoE. I did like the early system in EQ and being able to reuse items on alts. the nature of this game being for core to hardcore player probably means more time investment for a single character. I could see me wanting an old item on an alt or a reroll. At the same time I say that I could see the items being bloated so a way to sink them that pay off or are useful would be a great idea.
Exmortis said:
Khuul99 said:
I would like most items to be non bound.
However, I want much of the raid gear (and to some extent really hard to get group encounter drops) to be bind on pickup
Please do not take offense to this, but man this statement burns me sideways. As a crafter I put forth how important BoE is, and raiders all scream bloody murder its wrong, but then in the same sentence scream for BoP on every raid item. (not entirely directed at you mate, this has been an issue since EQ)
Sorry plain an simply No. If we are going to have a tradable all item world, then it must include raid gear and drops. Why is it sanctioned only for raids to enjoy a clear and unbreakable hold on a certain tier of gear while screaming for freedom on ever other tier? That's simply hypocrisy at its worse.
So if unbound fully tradable gear is the game design, it must be for all gear. If we are going to simply mud-deflate our game eceonomy to the lowest NPC denominator, then I want to be able to save up and buy that raid gear.
The uber cool raiders need something for us "casual crows" to flock around them and admire, I mean how are they going to be our heros that we look up to and strive to be like if they cant look special.
Exmortis said:
Khuul99 said:
I would like most items to be non bound.
However, I want much of the raid gear (and to some extent really hard to get group encounter drops) to be bind on pickup
Please do not take offense to this, but man this statement burns me sideways. As a crafter I put forth how important BoE is, and raiders all scream bloody murder its wrong, but then in the same sentence scream for BoP on every raid item. (not entirely directed at you mate, this has been an issue since EQ)
Sorry plain an simply No. If we are going to have a tradable all item world, then it must include raid gear and drops. Why is it sanctioned only for raids to enjoy a clear and unbreakable hold on a certain tier of gear while screaming for freedom on ever other tier? That's simply hypocrisy at its worse.
So if unbound fully tradable gear is the game design, it must be for all gear. If we are going to simply mud-deflate our game eceonomy to the lowest NPC denominator, then I want to be able to save up and buy that raid gear.
I'm afraid I disagree. Raid and hard group encounter drops should definitely be bind on pickup (BoP). Gear should be earned, not bought. If raid gear was freely tradeable to anyone, that would result in so many negative consequences to the game.
Every boss that dropped a valuable piece of gear would be perma-camped by Chinese gold farmers, who sell the gear and then sell the resulting gold online. Overtime, the game would basically turn into P2W, and whichever player illegally purchases the most gold can have the best gear.
Pantheon is supposed to be a game about difficulty and community. Where is the difficulty and reliance on teamwork, when all you have to do to get raid geared is buy it on the auction house?
I personally don't see having raid items bound as being unfair, after all, anyone can raid... But, if you're saying it is some how unfair, then go ahead and make all items bound. Because raid loot should not be tradeable under any circumstances imo.
Exmortis said:
Niien said:
I would prefer my items being destroyed before they are bound to me or to the point I can't hand it out freely at my own will. So I would opt for a system where high end raid gear is BOP and everything else is trade-able with durability.
Again? why must we have freedom except for raid gear? If items are tradable then items are tradable, top to bottom.
Buying the Sword of the coolone from an NPC you did not earn from a group encounter is no fundamentally different than buying the sword of the Ultimatcoolone from a raid encounter I did not fight. We are grasping at semantics here, that a group encounter is any different from a raid encounter when you did not earn the reward. A solo player buying a sword only gotten from a 6 man group encounter is just as unearned as a 6 man group buying the BP drops from a 24 man raid encounter.
because no group is going to be camping a group boss that has a 1% chance to drop a useful item that could be sold. but the raid encounter that always drops an item worth 100k to 1M gold... yeah i can see guilds perma camping the content to sell the items. ensuring that the rest of the community never gets to see those encounters.
also while i do raid, i am a weekend warrior type, but i craft constantly. there will always be players who are altaholics to buy gear, even if everything crafted is unbound i dont think the market for crafted stuff will ever disappear. especially if the final crafting system is like VG.
Do we have confirmation on VR's plans regarding how gear is traded in the game? It's been almost 2 years since this thread has seen any action and I'm curious if anything has changed in players perspective or development goals. If I replace a breastplate with a better one, will I be able to sell the old breastplate, or will it be attuned to me and only sellable to merchants? I have seen variations of BoE (Bind on Equip), No-Trade, and "Pure" tradeable loot. I'd like to see a blend of all 3 options, with high volumes of BoE, medium volumes of Purely Tradeable, and small volumes of no-trade. Epics and Quest Items would be no-trade for example ... everything else would be purely tradeable or BoE.
I think it would be really nice to be able to trade certain raid pieces that we might not need to other guilds and get something that we DO need in return. It was always a bummer when the final boss in a raid zone would drop something that literally nobody could use ... or the person who could use it, just happened to not be on that night. I've seen stuff like that. Poor guy goes to the raid 12 times in a row hoping for a certain drop that never comes. He misses a raid, it drops, and it gets looted by a class that can't even use it to be sold to vendor. All of this applies to group content as well.
I don't think there is anything wrong with allowing some gear to be sold to other players. They may have not have participated in the raid or group, but high-end loot goes for premium $$ ... they're going to have to pay a pretty penny to get it. So rather than the item potentially rotting or being sold to a vendor, the raid/group is able to split up the sale amount from that piece of gear. That money can help them with spell/gear upgrades, consumables, etc. It's supposed to be a player-driven economy in a highly social game ...