Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

• Kittik

  

  • 1019 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 9:33 AM PST

  I have been very critical of the leadership at VR for some time now. But I will give them credit for this hard decision. They saw they did something silly and reversed course. This isn't easy for company's or businesses to do, especially when they are being told so often it's wrong. Some people will dig their heels into the dirt and 'go down with the ship' for lack of better analogies. But I'm happy they made this change, and I'll give them props for that.
• Ruinar

  

  • 252 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 10:06 AM PST

  Many of us were unhappy with the 247 mode. I was one of them. I criticized it and brought up my concerns like many of you in hopes that honest feedback would help inform the dev's decision. They have shown that they do, indeed, listen to their community. Obviously, this development cycle has been long. VR has blundered many times. Frustrations by the community have been real, and criticism has been deserved. But I like to take a modified Hanlon's razor. Never attribute to malice that which could be adequately explained by incompetence or inexperience (or some other tangible explanation). Results are not always in line with intentions.
  
  Some accused VR of being malicious liars scamming the public with their vaporware product. They accused anyone who didn't subscribe to their one-dimensional view of being addicted to "copium" (dumb word). I don't think this news will make them eat their words, but I am feeling more hopeful than ever that that day will come, if they have the intellectual honesty to ever eat their words even if the game comes out.
• justdrop

  

  • 194 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 11:45 AM PST

  I wasn't quite that damning but I also never completely gave up hope. It's easy to see how people could get fed up to that point so I'm going to withhold judgment on them. Thank you VR for listening to the community.
• NegativeNRG

  

  • 173 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 12:33 PM PST

  This is wonderful news! I was disappointed with the graphics change. Then the 247 survival extraction testing mode came and I was angry and felt like something bad was happening to the PantheonMMO vision. Along with others, I posted my frustration about 247 and my concern for how this would be bad for the game. I had to fight off an onslaught of people saying that my opinion doesn't matter. Or the worse one to me, that I just didn't understand how 247 is great for PantheonMMO.

  I'm very glad that VR has listened to us and is bringing back the full PvE MMORPG. I'm excited to be able to finally test and play Pantheon in December!

  Edit Notes 1: I make a new paragraph but it doesn't show in the post.

  Edit Notes 2: OK, I have to add my own HTML code to get paragraphs to work... Good Times

  
  This post was edited by NegativeNRG at November 14, 2023 12:40 PM PST
• Ruinar

  

  • 252 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 1:44 PM PST

  justdrop said:
  I wasn't quite that damning but I also never completely gave up hope. It's easy to see how people could get fed up to that point so I'm going to withhold judgment on them. Thank you VR for listening to the community.

  
  
  Well, I might be being a little hypocritical here.
• Gaku

  

  • 86 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 2:10 PM PST

  They've definitely regained some of my trust by reversing the course on 247 and going back to a MMORPG format. A lot of companies would of stayed the course thinking they knew better than the community, for them to bite the bullet, accept all the negative feedback and publicly apologize, goes a long way with me and earns a good deal of respect.
• Xerion

  

  • 79 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 2:26 PM PST

  Kudos to them!  This communication is more reassuring than anything else.  Establishing this connection with the community is the key to success of the company and game itself.  Keep doing this, keep up the transparency and communication, you will EARN the title "Rise of the Fallen".  EARN it.

• justdrop

  

  • 194 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 2:31 PM PST

  Ruinar said:
  

  justdrop said:
  I wasn't quite that damning but I also never completely gave up hope. It's easy to see how people could get fed up to that point so I'm going to withhold judgment on them. Thank you VR for listening to the community.

  
  
  Well, I might be being a little hypocritical here.

  
  
  Even if you felt it, I never saw you state it. You've been yourself throughout.
• Anasyn

  

  • 179 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 3:55 PM PST

  Thank you for the change of direction. We want the game to succeed.
• lotuss79

  

  • 185 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 4:15 PM PST

  Credit where credit is due, yes.
  But they had no real choice. Test server was a ghost town.
  8 months spent on this..
  But absolutely, so glad for the course correction.
  Reverting to old graphics has to be next though. Only 1/2 the way there.
• Ziegfried

  

  • 264 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 8:28 PM PST

  Regardless of why they backed out of the 247 debacle it was the right choice. Put it behind you and focus on finishing the classes, starting areas, and a few dungeons. Get something out that people can play!

• Zorkon

  

  • 1404 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 9:33 PM PST

  Ziegfried said:

  Regardless of why they backed out of the 247 debacle it was the right choice. Put it behind you and focus on finishing the classes, starting areas, and a few dungeons. Get something out that people can play!

  And for gods sake QUIT redoing classes until you have at least SOMETHING out there for all of them. Then, and only then pick them as needed and “refresh” them.
• Susurrus

  

  • 560 posts
   

  November 14, 2023 10:42 PM PST

  I was never a fan of the 247 mode but at the same time I understood why it came about. My one ongoing concern with 247 was that the mode seemed to be more PvP then PvE. This is the only reason I am happy they reversed course. As a added bonus in the announcement they said "Pantheon will drop its 247 Test Mode and return to the full PvE MMORPG." I love seeing that PvE first direction that Pantheon has always talked about.
  
  I am also still excited that Alpha pledgers will get access in December.
• Grimseethe

  

  • 233 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 2:01 AM PST

  Now we wait for the "We hear you" Graphics change.
• Feyshtey

  

  • 1303 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 5:31 AM PST

  I've moved beyond good faith. 247 was just one of many choices that have bothered me over the last several years. Beyond just the trust, my frustration at 2 steps forward and 3 back has reached an unacceptable threshold. My trust is shot, and words no longer sway me. Until there's a product available to actually experience first hand I'll just check in occasionally, and do so from a guarded distance.
  
  In the meantime I'll put my focus into indie projects that aren't asking for my money, are making exponentially faster progress, provably moving in a direction I more appreciate, and doing so with fewer people. IYKYK.
• drewber2814

  

  • 21 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 7:24 AM PST

  Just want to say thank you to VR for listening to the community and righting the wrongs. I'm sure it wasn't easy and I know it's been difficult times but I still believe in what you are doing and I hope for the best moving forward!
• dorotea

  

  • 3852 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 7:38 AM PST

  The predictable flood of praise for the reversal tends to overlook one thing.
  
  VR switched to 247 for a reason. They changed the graphics for a reason. The reason has not gone away. The flirtation with 247 leaves them - and us - in worse shape than before the ill0fated romance not in better shape.
  
  What is VR going to do to overcome the problems that led them to switch to 247 in the first place?
• Xerion

  

  • 79 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 7:48 AM PST

  "What is VR going to do to overcome the problems that led them to switch to 247 in the first place?"
  
  Engagement, transparency, communication, feedback.  All those things have to be commonplace moving forward.  If it is, then I am not worried.  

• Snackpack

  

  • 32 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 8:29 AM PST

  Glad to see they reversed this choice after a flood of negative feedback. But likely too little, too late, my faith and excitement is still completely dead unless we see real, tangible movement towards the MMO release. Given the rest of the last ten years, I won't hold my breath.
• Kittik

  

  • 1019 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 9:56 AM PST

  Zorkon said:
  

  Ziegfried said:
  
  Regardless of why they backed out of the 247 debacle it was the right choice. Put it behind you and focus on finishing the classes, starting areas, and a few dungeons. Get something out that people can play!
  
  

  
  And for gods sake QUIT redoing classes until you have at least SOMETHING out there for all of them.
  Then, and only then pick them as needed and “refresh” them.

  
  
  100% This. Class "refreash" on the same class three times isn't an accomplishment.
• lotuss79

  

  • 185 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 11:00 AM PST

  dorotea said:
  The predictable flood of praise for the reversal tends to overlook one thing.
  
  VR switched to 247 for a reason. They changed the graphics for a reason. The reason has not gone away. The flirtation with 247 leaves them - and us - in worse shape than before the ill0fated romance not in better shape.
  
  What is VR going to do to overcome the problems that led them to switch to 247 in the first place?

  
  
  
  
  Maybe its as simple as server wipes every week or two? Make testers do lvl 1-20 on multile classes instead of expecting to keep playing your preffered class the whole time. Thats the type of gameplay thats expected at release, not during Alpha testing anyway.
  
  
  
  Also keep in mind, Project Farethale was supposed to be a "vertical slice" of the game with a (probably limited) advancement path to lvl 50 as part of it.
  
  So there should be more content out there that they have in at least a testable state that they could open up.
• Feyshtey

  

  • 1303 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 11:44 AM PST

  Xerion said:
  
  "What is VR going to do to overcome the problems that led them to switch to 247 in the first place?"
  
  Engagement, transparency, communication, feedback. All those things have to be commonplace moving forward. If it is, then I am not worried.
  
  

  
  
  None of those inherently pay the bills.
  
  I believe the issue that drove VR to even consider 247 was funding, and how that was potentially either a confidence builder for potential investors, or a spinoff product they could monetize. I believe the concern Dorotea is pointing out, is that if they needed money that badly, and now that potential income avenue is off the table, where does the money that's needed come from?
  
  I think that's a valid concern. But I'm more and more of the opinion that its no longer my concern. I've come to terms with the fact that the pledge I made is likely never going to be fruitful.
• Susurrus

  

  • 560 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 11:52 AM PST

  I get that VR did not spend a lot of time explaining the exact reason for 247 proposal so I can see how people could get different ideas of what it was going to accomplish. It also makes sense that VR saw multiple advantages to the new game mode.
  
  What I got out of the information given was that the amount of content available was not enough to keep the pre-alpha pledgers entertained. 247 new game mode would make a small amount of content more repayable and take longer to consume. Not sure how going to just a normal mmo mode will solve that issue. I am sure that is one of the benefits of keeping alpha members to limited play times.
• Adrenicus

  

  • 125 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 12:02 PM PST

  Good news but as a few others mentioned the main overriding issue of finances is left unaddressed. The well is almost empty - what is their plan?

• lotuss79

  

  • 185 posts
   

  November 15, 2023 12:06 PM PST

  Hard work costs nothing. They can simply build out the game if they believe in it and take profits for their hard work at release.