Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

New Funding Proposal

    • 560 posts
    October 29, 2023 10:29 PM PDT
    I would like to make a proposal on allowing pledgers to pay a monthly fee ranging from small to around $15 a month. Have that pledge slowly add to there total pledge amount opening new pledge tires as they reach them. This gives both VR a stead flow of income that is predictable and the pledger an easier way to purchase higher tier pledges.

    Downside is it might take a little work to implement but the upside it could allow people to reasonable keep funding development within a budget. I am likely in the minority but I would do it even if it did not count towards my total pledge. It is no different then me donating to Patreon creator. Anyone else like this idea?
    • 560 posts
    October 29, 2023 10:38 PM PDT
    I posted this on Discord and people pointed out there is a $5 and $14.95 a month option. If you are interested you can find them below.



    I went ahead and signed up for the $5 but I sure think it would help if it added to your over all pledge amount over time. That seems like a small concession for VR for a steady income.



    https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/payment/settings
    This post was edited by Susurrus at October 29, 2023 11:57 PM PDT
    • 31 posts
    October 30, 2023 6:01 AM PDT
    Susurrus said:
    I would like to make a proposal on allowing pledgers to pay a monthly fee ranging from small to around $15 a month. Have that pledge slowly add to there total pledge amount opening new pledge tires as they reach them. This gives both VR a stead flow of income that is predictable and the pledger an easier way to purchase higher tier pledges.


    Yeah, i like that idea.
    • 560 posts
    October 31, 2023 11:16 PM PDT
    To late I spent more money.
    • 560 posts
    November 7, 2023 11:18 PM PST
    I am glad Ashes of Creation is out there for the PVP players. It really dose look like a fun game if you like PVP. But for us non-PVP fans there really is no other option out there other then Pantheon.

    For a couple days there before I was able to get past all the drama my faith was faltering but given time to learn what all the fuss was about the only thing that still has me all that worried is the same issue VR has had from day one. A lack of money. With the budget VR has to work with building Pantheon was always going to be hard and I do not see it getting any easier any time soon. But the team is still hear, still working, and there dedication keeps my hopes alive.

    People might call my pledge a waste but supporting a game like this has always been high risk. I do not have rose glasses on I am just willing to bet on VR. It is only money after all and this is the best hope I have of ever getting a game I want to play. Some times I do envy PVP fans those games seem to grow on trees.
    • 2052 posts
    November 9, 2023 3:49 PM PST

    Mod edit: off-topic posts removed.

    • 295 posts
    November 15, 2023 7:52 PM PST
    I like the idea. I would make it more appealing for VR though. They already have a $5 and $15 pledge package. To make worth their while, they should make a $25 and $50 a month that goes towards leveling up your pledge to Alpha, Beta and PA. The PA could make all those who meet the requirements of the Black Rose pledge be able to pay until they reach that mark. Knowing that you are spending money towards being a PA tester would be the reward for those pledging and I fell strongly that it would increase their monthly revenue. I would immediately sign up for the $25 one right now. Knowing that they have a consistent stream of income coming for certain periods of time would help improve development.

    I see it as a win win for all who are interested.

    I also think they should open a store for merchandise like T-shirts, hoodies, mugs, mousepads and such through a made to order online store. They need to have multiple streams of income coming in and those two ideas(if doable) will help, imo.
    This post was edited by Dikenzu at November 15, 2023 7:54 PM PST
    • 1284 posts
    November 16, 2023 8:42 AM PST

    I'm not sure how predictable it would be.  How many people would pledge for a month or two just to see with their own eyes without committing to monthly for Z months?  I'm not sure, I'm not saying this is the case, just seems like an important question.

    • 3852 posts
    November 16, 2023 9:10 AM PST
    I put some details as to how this proposal could work in a different thread in a different portion of the forums. Since it applies just as well here I am going to do something I usually try not to do and repeat myself - since this thread is at least as good a place to discuss how a subscription model could work. Maybe a better place.



    At some point, not necessarily day 1 - have the servers serve two functions. I think everything I am about to add is in line with earlier proposals. I am just fleshing them out.


    1. Test the game. Anyone whose pledge gives alpha access would have access for all test sessions. No "ripping off" people that pledged by adding a charge to something they were already promised. In other words - exactly what we all think is going to happen soon.

    2. Now the important part - a way to both raise cash and entertain the masses. This means us and anyone else they can sell this to. Have non-test sessions just as they were going to do with 247. Monetize these. Have servers that echo the test server available full time (subject to the usual times when they need to be taken down for maintenance, patches and the like).

    Let anyone play these for a subscription charge. Any pledge level - people that have not pledged. Totally abandon the intent to delay alpha until the game is so built up and polished that it will it will be a shining city on a hill greatly impressing all players even at the alpha stage. Shift gears. Focus on raising more cash now. Sure this has risks but is it riskier than betting the farm on 247 - hell no. And they were going to do *that* until feedback persuaded them it was a non-starter. I do not blame them for trying 247 out - any port in a storm.

    I think if they bust their butts they may be able to get a version of the game out for subscription early next year. Not even as good as the alpha they had dreamed of - no. But better than 247. Yes. Not early access - not that good. Not charging people to be alpha testers. That is included already in many pledge levels. A version of the game that is not necessarily quite the same as alpha and one where they do NOT treat it as a test version and ask for specific testing and reports. A cash raising version just to entertain us and provide revenue for them.

    In other words - not 247. That ship has ...sunk. Pantheon lite.
    • 560 posts
    November 16, 2023 9:12 AM PST
    I have noticed this idea being talked about on Discord too that once you start paying you would get access. My idea is that you would only get access to what your total contributed amount allows access too. For example if you had previously pledged for Alpha access and now started making monthly payments of 14.99 you would only gain per-alpha access once your total pledge amounts added up per-alpha levels. Same thing if you start monthly without any previews pledges you would unlock pledge levels as you hit them not before.

    My expectations would be that most people would only use this to increase there pledge level. It would be a way to both support Pantheon in an affordable way long term with the added advantage of the possibility of unlocking higher pledges.
    • 1284 posts
    November 16, 2023 9:33 AM PST

    Susurrus said: I have noticed this idea being talked about on Discord too that once you start paying you would get access. My idea is that you would only get access to what your total contributed amount allows access too. For example if you had previously pledged for Alpha access and now started making monthly payments of 14.99 you would only gain per-alpha access once your total pledge amounts added up per-alpha levels. Same thing if you start monthly without any previews pledges you would unlock pledge levels as you hit them not before. My expectations would be that most people would only use this to increase there pledge level. It would be a way to both support Pantheon in an affordable way long term with the added advantage of the possibility of unlocking higher pledges.

     

    That sounds excellent to me.  

    • 173 posts
    November 16, 2023 2:02 PM PST
    Susurrus said: I have noticed this idea being talked about on Discord too that once you start paying you would get access. My idea is that you would only get access to what your total contributed amount allows access too. For example if you had previously pledged for Alpha access and now started making monthly payments of 14.99 you would only gain per-alpha access once your total pledge amounts added up per-alpha levels. Same thing if you start monthly without any previews pledges you would unlock pledge levels as you hit them not before. My expectations would be that most people would only use this to increase there pledge level. It would be a way to both support Pantheon in an affordable way long term with the added advantage of the possibility of unlocking higher pledges.

    Sounds like a great way to get more cash flow from people that otherwise are not going to be spending more. Sounds like a win/win for both! I like it.

    • 167 posts
    November 16, 2023 6:54 PM PST
    Susurrus said: I have noticed this idea being talked about on Discord too that once you start paying you would get access. My idea is that you would only get access to what your total contributed amount allows access too. For example if you had previously pledged for Alpha access and now started making monthly payments of 14.99 you would only gain per-alpha access once your total pledge amounts added up per-alpha levels. Same thing if you start monthly without any previews pledges you would unlock pledge levels as you hit them not before. My expectations would be that most people would only use this to increase there pledge level. It would be a way to both support Pantheon in an affordable way long term with the added advantage of the possibility of unlocking higher pledges.
    Let's try the math:
      • Monthly subscription cost: $14.99
    Subscription Costs:
      • 12 months: $14.99/month x 12 months = $179.88
      • 24 months: $14.99/month x 24 months = $359.76
      • 48 months: $14.99/month x 48 months = $719.52
    From the provided information:
      • To get alpha access (Pathfinders pledge), it would take 16.67 months.
      • To get pre-alpha access (Scion of the Black Rose pledge), it would take 50 months.
      • From alpha (Pathfinders 250), it would take 33.4 months to get up to pre-alpha.
    I don't think these numbers are enticing enough to bring in new pledges. Personally I wouldn't upgrade from my alpha pledge, as I would hope they'd be in alpha sooner than 33.4 months from now. I definitely wouldn't want to pay 14.99 a month for over 2 years just to get a pre alpha access as again, I'd hope they'd be long into alpha before then, if not beta or SUPER optimistically, LAUNCH. You could redo the math and keep upgrading the monthly subscription to higher numbers like 50 dollars a month, to make it a little more feasible for new pledges and upgraded pledges, but you really gotta pump out the content and get people interested in the game again, before you can do that. Not a singular fix, but an idea I'm sure would make a decent chunk of change. Terminus Cloth/Canvas Maps - Limited prints. 30 a pop. You'd have to somehow gauge interest ahead of time to come up with the number of prints that would likely sell out, but I know for a fact many of us love a good cloth map.
    This post was edited by Prevenge at November 16, 2023 7:05 PM PST
    • 194 posts
    November 16, 2023 6:56 PM PST
    Prevenge said:
    Personally I wouldn't upgrade from my alpha pledge, as I would hope they'd be in alpha sooner than 33.4 months from now. I definitely wouldn't want to pay 14.99 a month for over 2 years just to get a pre alpha access as again, I'd hope they'd be long into alpha before then, if not beta or SUPER optimistically, LAUNCH.


    Ahahahaha
    • 167 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:18 PM PST
    justdrop said:
    Prevenge said:
    Personally I wouldn't upgrade from my alpha pledge, as I would hope they'd be in alpha sooner than 33.4 months from now. I definitely wouldn't want to pay 14.99 a month for over 2 years just to get a pre alpha access as again, I'd hope they'd be long into alpha before then, if not beta or SUPER optimistically, LAUNCH.


    Ahahahaha


    Sorry, what I mean is that's what I think most people would think, when they were looking at the prices. If I knew you were here I would have tried using puppets and crayons to explain instead of text.
    • 194 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:20 PM PST
    Prevenge said:
    justdrop said:
    Prevenge said:
    Personally I wouldn't upgrade from my alpha pledge, as I would hope they'd be in alpha sooner than 33.4 months from now. I definitely wouldn't want to pay 14.99 a month for over 2 years just to get a pre alpha access as again, I'd hope they'd be long into alpha before then, if not beta or SUPER optimistically, LAUNCH.


    Ahahahaha


    Sorry, what I mean is that's what I think most people would think, when they were looking at the prices. If I knew you were here I would have tried using puppets and crayons to explain instead of text.


    No, most people who aren't here don't even trust VR to be creating the game at this point. Perhaps you could stick to the discussion and not make this personal.
    • 167 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:23 PM PST
    justdrop said:
    Prevenge said:
    justdrop said:
    Prevenge said:
    Personally I wouldn't upgrade from my alpha pledge, as I would hope they'd be in alpha sooner than 33.4 months from now. I definitely wouldn't want to pay 14.99 a month for over 2 years just to get a pre alpha access as again, I'd hope they'd be long into alpha before then, if not beta or SUPER optimistically, LAUNCH.


    Ahahahaha


    Sorry, what I mean is that's what I think most people would think, when they were looking at the prices. If I knew you were here I would have tried using puppets and crayons to explain instead of text.


    No, most people who aren't here don't even trust VR to be creating the game at this point. Perhaps you could stick to the discussion and not make this personal.


    Give a post worth responding to, in the forum of discussion and you will absolutely get the same in return. I've been trying to figure out what the general outside view of Pantheon is right now. Reddit has quieted right down, there are far less negative posts and comments since the 247 rollback, the youtube comments are quite a bit more positive, still a bunch of "game is never coming out" comments as well, but it's definitely trending upwards.

    Honestly? I think they might be ok. If I was VR I'd be trying to get some new content out into the public fairly quickly, to capitalize on this new found change in mood. We have still seen very little lately, other than a few screenshots.
    This post was edited by Prevenge at November 16, 2023 7:26 PM PST
    • 560 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:25 PM PST
    @Prevenge

    Thanks for doing the math, I should have done that on my original post. I am sure for some people this funding proposal would not work for them at all and the higher tier you are the more likely it would not be helpful. Well unless you just want to donate more to the cause.

    But for the lower tiers $14.99 a month would add up quick. I am assuming most people that would use this option would have a pledge level already and if you are below the Advisor's Pledge ($300) every $50 would increase your tier level. This would mean ever 4 months you would upgrade to the next tier. I think that could be an intensive.

    For those of us at alpha or higher what about offering the option to buy future subscription time. It could be a one for one or at a discount? Not sure I would be crazy about selling my future income if I was VR but if they need the money now it might be worth it.
    This post was edited by Susurrus at November 16, 2023 7:27 PM PST
    • 194 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:26 PM PST
    Prevenge said:
    justdrop said:
    Prevenge said:
    justdrop said:
    Prevenge said:
    Personally I wouldn't upgrade from my alpha pledge, as I would hope they'd be in alpha sooner than 33.4 months from now. I definitely wouldn't want to pay 14.99 a month for over 2 years just to get a pre alpha access as again, I'd hope they'd be long into alpha before then, if not beta or SUPER optimistically, LAUNCH.


    Ahahahaha


    Sorry, what I mean is that's what I think most people would think, when they were looking at the prices. If I knew you were here I would have tried using puppets and crayons to explain instead of text.


    No, most people who aren't here don't even trust VR to be creating the game at this point. Perhaps you could stick to the discussion and not make this personal.


    Give a post worth responding to, in the forum of discussion and you will absolutely get the same in return. I've been trying to figure out what the general outside view of Pantheon is right now. Reddit has quieted right down, there are far less negative posts and comments since the 247 rollback, the youtube comments are quite a bit more positive, still a bunch of "game is never coming out" comments as well, but it's definitely trending upwards.

    Honestly? I think they might be ok.


    You didn't have to respond at all. The pulse isn't really tough to put a finger on, if comments have died down overall that tells you less people are interested than before. They got mad at the situation and then dipped. VR understands that the problem isn't necessarily negativity, but apathy, and that's what they're going to be up against especially when the reality is that some people put in 10 years ago and still have received nothing, now the company is looking for more.
    This post was edited by justdrop at November 16, 2023 7:27 PM PST
    • 167 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:34 PM PST
    Susurrus said: @Prevenge Thanks for doing the math, I should have done that on my original post. I am sure for some people this funding proposal would not work for them at all and the higher tier you are the more likely it would not be helpful. Well unless you just want to donate more to the cause. But for the lower tiers $14.99 a month would add up quick. I am assuming most people that would use this option would have a pledge level already and if you are below the Advisor's Pledge ($300) every $50 would increase your tier level. This would mean ever 4 months you would upgrade to the next tier. I think that could be an intensive. For those of us at alpha or higher what about offering the option to buy future subscription time. It could be a one for one or at a discount? Not sure I would be crazy about selling my future income if I was VR but if they need the money now it might be worth it.
    My pleasure. The problem is tier upgrades don't get you anything new as far as game access outside of 250 and 750 dollars. So the timeline is what I think would drive most people away. But hold on. Let's try it at 30 dollars a month, as it's still a fairly digestible number. Subscription Costs:
    • 12 months: $30/month x 12 months = $360
    • 24 months: $30/month x 24 months = $720
    • 48 months: $30/month x 48 months = $1440
    Timelines:
    • To get alpha access (Pathfinders pledge), it would take 8.33 months, totaling $250.
    • To get pre-alpha access (Scion of the Black Rose pledge), it would take 25 months, totaling $750.
    • From alpha (Pathfinders 250), it would take 16.67 months to get up to pre-alpha, with a total cost of $500.
    At 30 dollars a month, 8.33 months to get alpha access and 25 months to get pre-alpha access. 16.67 months for an upgrade from alpha to pre-alpha. I like these numbers more, but how many new pledges do you think would be enticed by the timeline?
    • 167 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:37 PM PST

    You didn't have to respond at all. The pulse isn't really tough to put a finger on, if comments have died down overall that tells you less people are interested than before. They got mad at the situation and then dipped. VR understands that the problem isn't necessarily negativity, but apathy, and that's what they're going to be up against especially when the reality is that some people put in 10 years ago and still have received nothing, now the company is looking for more.


    Well of course, a lot of people were only here because there was drama. Nothing new, there.

    Were you not at the Q&A? Joppa just confirmed that the whole money thing isn't at all what people are saying. They have enough money. This really is just to accelerate things. I can tell from his tone of voice that it was an honest answer. But whether you believe me or not, is up to you.
    This post was edited by Prevenge at November 16, 2023 7:38 PM PST
    • 560 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:41 PM PST
    Well VR has the advantage on us here. They know how many people pledge for the lower tiers that really only get slight changes of Beta access. Hard to say how many of them would add on a monthly fee.

    The higher monthly amount of $30 would for sure get you alpha and pre-alpha a lot faster and if this is what most people buy it might be the best option to offer. But it is not all the much lower then the $50 upgrade option offered now on the higher packages. Those options have the advantage of giving you the access immediately.
    • 167 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:45 PM PST
    Susurrus said:
    Well VR has the advantage on us here. They know how many people pledge for the lower tiers that really only get slight changes of Beta access. Hard to say how many of them would add on a monthly fee.

    The higher monthly amount of $30 would for sure get you alpha and pre-alpha a lot faster and if this is what most people buy it might be the best option to offer. But it is not all the much lower then the $50 upgrade option offered now on the higher packages. Those options have the advantage of giving you the access immediately.


    Yea, it's a tricky one, isn't it? Just for me personally, I paid for alpha because I believed in the game. I still do, but simply can't afford to pay any more than that until the game launches. Things are tight, atm. The world's prices have gone mad.

    I wish VR would have given us some of the ideas they were thinking about, so we could have tossed them around ourselves to try to come up with something.
    • 194 posts
    November 16, 2023 7:54 PM PST
    Prevenge said:

    You didn't have to respond at all. The pulse isn't really tough to put a finger on, if comments have died down overall that tells you less people are interested than before. They got mad at the situation and then dipped. VR understands that the problem isn't necessarily negativity, but apathy, and that's what they're going to be up against especially when the reality is that some people put in 10 years ago and still have received nothing, now the company is looking for more.


    Well of course, a lot of people were only here because there was drama. Nothing new, there.

    Were you not at the Q&A? Joppa just confirmed that the whole money thing isn't at all what people are saying. They have enough money. This really is just to accelerate things. I can tell from his tone of voice that it was an honest answer. But whether you believe me or not, is up to you.




    A dishonest opening statement, unsurprised.



    Now here's where I'm going to question you: I'm 20 minutes into the vod currently, did Joppa say that money isn't what people are saying or did he say we're not out of money? If he says so after the 20 minute mark I'll correct myself but I want to see if you were truly listening.
    • 167 posts
    November 16, 2023 8:01 PM PST
    justdrop said:
    Prevenge said:

    You didn't have to respond at all. The pulse isn't really tough to put a finger on, if comments have died down overall that tells you less people are interested than before. They got mad at the situation and then dipped. VR understands that the problem isn't necessarily negativity, but apathy, and that's what they're going to be up against especially when the reality is that some people put in 10 years ago and still have received nothing, now the company is looking for more.


    Well of course, a lot of people were only here because there was drama. Nothing new, there.

    Were you not at the Q&A? Joppa just confirmed that the whole money thing isn't at all what people are saying. They have enough money. This really is just to accelerate things. I can tell from his tone of voice that it was an honest answer. But whether you believe me or not, is up to you.




    A dishonest opening statement, unsurprised.



    Now here's where I'm going to question you: I'm 20 minutes into the vod currently, did Joppa say that money isn't what people are saying or did he say we're not out of money? If he says so after the 20 minute mark I'll correct myself but I want to see if you were truly listening.


    I meant he confirmed that they aren't out of money, like people are saying. I worded that poorly. It was an hour long and we were joking around in chat, so I don't remember where it is. But listen to his answer, he almost sounded like it was laughable that people were suggesting they were out of money.

    Also, thinking on it, I was there partaking for I believe an hour and 45 minutes. So it could have been something that was discussed before the Q&A officially went live.
    This post was edited by Prevenge at November 16, 2023 8:22 PM PST