247 .. the Death of Pantheon

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247 .. the Death of Pantheon

Sweety
- 226 posts
October 27, 2023 8:16 PM PDT

Obviously most of us all hate 247, but forgetting that for a moment ... the graphics are ugly, character models make me laugh they are so bad, combat looks lame and clunky, and game play seems boring. It's my new opinion that Pantheon will fail. So, when the game flops, which I am certain it will now, do we get refunds on our pledges, or does VR want to wait until the class action law suit?

By the way, you can try to spin this anyway you want, but the fact that 247 needed to be released to increase revenue is a HUGE red flag. We have all been drinking the VR Kool-Aid (me included) for way to long.
This post was edited by Sweety at October 28, 2023 3:46 PM PDT
Tassen
- 3 posts
October 28, 2023 2:43 AM PDT

The funny thing is what will be done differently with more money from 247, than with previous funding? They wasted that money even tho they went out several times and stated they were fully funded until launch.

on the topic of lawsuit, there will not be any. As long as they release something there is not grounds for suing. That's what pledging is.
dorotea
- 3852 posts
October 28, 2023 8:30 AM PDT

Sweety - you may be right but let us all consider one thing. Will it help or hurt the process to say so?

If there is no hope left we might as well write our contributions off and stop posting. If there still is hope - even if small - we should consider what will make the odds higher and what will make them lower and try to do the former and eschew the latter.

Tassen - speaking as a lawyer with 30 years experience I can say without even the slightest doubt that your final sentence is incorrect in two ways. Firstly, the fact that there can be no successful lawsuit does not mean there will be no lawsuit. Many lawsuits are downright baseless. Secondly, whether they release something is entirely meaningless to a lawsuit. If they release nothing but made a good faith effort, and simply failed, pledgers got exactly what was promised. A good faith effort. If they release something to try and stave off litigation but never made a good faith effort to develop the game they solicited pledges for, a lawsuit will have merit.
chenzeme
- 902 posts
October 28, 2023 9:16 AM PDT

Hope does remain, just. If VR want to gain back the trust it has lost from this community, it is simple; listen to the concerns, respond to the complaints and stop hiding everything behind a pre-alpha NDA. The total lack of concern from VR about the complaints raised by its paying customers is just insulting.

I mean, this phase, the pre-alpha, was only ever to get the game stable and working content for ALPHA testing to start. Well, let's hope it does open up, soon! Am I convinced it will? Track records are not great.

Anyway, I have watched the latest offering from VR a number of times now and it offers little more than was already known. Nothing new. I still think the style is childish in design. Too bright and cheery. Just looks so... non atmospheric, non dangerous, non engrossing.

ProtF promised much. Today I just feel almost empty of hope. Can playing this game get me over the styling? Honestly I don't know. I have a tiny bit of hope left, but it is so small, it would have problems nourishing a snail at this point.

To quote greenday, "Wake me up when September ends."
This post was edited by chenzeme at October 28, 2023 9:52 AM PDT
Thunderleg
- 326 posts
October 28, 2023 10:16 AM PDT

dorotea - "If there is no hope left we might as well write our contributions off and stop posting."

I am already at this point. As a PA tester, I have uninstalled the client and will be moving on. Best of luck to all who remain.
Sweety
- 226 posts
October 28, 2023 11:19 AM PDT

Tassen said:
on the topic of lawsuit, there will not be any. As long as they release something there is not grounds for suing. That's what pledging is.

I know, it was complete sarcasm.
Jeremiahcp
- 48 posts
October 28, 2023 11:23 AM PDT

This game was dead years ago. This is just their last ditch effort to scrap something out of a failed project.
Jeremiahcp
- 48 posts
October 28, 2023 11:28 AM PDT

dorotea said: If there is no hope left we might as well write our contributions off and stop posting.

I am just here for the show, I knew this was a failed project years ago. I posted as much a long while back, but back then they would just delete any post that held a pessimistic view of the game (no warning, no nothing, they just deleted them),
Sweety
- 226 posts
October 28, 2023 11:31 AM PDT

dorotea said:
Sweety - you may be right but let us all consider one thing. Will it help or hurt the process to say so?

If there is no hope left we might as well write our contributions off and stop posting. If there still is hope - even if small - we should consider what will make the odds higher and what will make them lower and try to do the former and eschew the latter.

While I agree with your sentiment. I’m past that. I really don’t care anymore. This is going to sound super harsh, but I’ve seen enough that I almost hope it fails at this point. Maybe this can be a lesson to other companies in the future while I wait for EQ3. (Half joking/half serious)

VR said they were fully funded till release. So, either they made very bad decisions or they lied. They can’t have it both ways. Unless someone embezzled money, I don’t want to hear any excuses. I don’t want to give them any remaining hope. My hope is a limited resource. So, my hope will be passed on to anther aspect in my life.

Lastly, I don’t care that I’ve lost a bunch of money. I can afford it. No big deal. I care that I gave them a decade of attention, time and hope. I feel cheated in this way.
Sweety
- 226 posts
October 28, 2023 11:35 AM PDT

chenzeme said:
Hope does remain, just. If VR want to gain back the trust it has lost from this community, it is simple; listen to the concerns, respond to the complaints and stop hiding everything behind a pre-alpha NDA. The total lack of concern from VR about the complaints raised by its paying customers is just insulting.

I mean, this phase, the pre-alpha, was only ever to get the game stable and working content for ALPHA testing to start. Well, let's hope it does open up, soon! Am I convinced it will? Track records are not great.

Anyway, I have watched the latest offering from VR a number of times now and it offers little more than was already known. Nothing new. I still think the style is childish in design. Too bright and cheery. Just looks so... non atmospheric, non dangerous, non engrossing.

ProtF promised much. Today I just feel almost empty of hope. Can playing this game get me over the styling? Honestly I don't know. I have a tiny bit of hope left, but it is so small, it would have problems nourishing a snail at this point.

To quote greenday, "Wake me up when September ends."

I think a more appropriate song from GreenDay to quote is “21 guns” .. “lay down your arms and give up the fight”
kerokupo
- 4 posts
October 28, 2023 3:31 PM PDT

decisions have already been made. and most of the community and myself agree they were bad. but what will be the way forward for VR, if they really are going to commit to 247? I've concluded that joppa is a great ideas guy, but maybe not the best for execution. So I'll just brainstorm some ways where 247 could succeed. They gotta show quick updates that take into consideration what the community wants. At this point, community morale is blinking red and VR have to actually earn the trust back. Not through words or 1hr long videos about concept art, but by making changes every month that the community wants. Following joppa or whoever's vision for how things should be or game mechanics, will be negatively received because you guys kinda gave up that privilege by missing so many milestones. to have invested time into a 10year journey for a game not close to completion leaves very little wiggle room. There's a fine line between making 247 better and making pantheon better, and every update has to be focused on making pantheon a better game. But that goes against the incentive of making 247 something profitable. So it'll be interesting to see how VR's updates will reflect on which game they are focusing on. always thought vr were cool but listened too much to white knights, and with 247 I see them trying to reach other demographics with much more potential to financially support a game.
MushyMel
- 20 posts
October 28, 2023 4:32 PM PDT

Cat wait for the Nerdslayer video
Sweety
- 226 posts
October 28, 2023 4:38 PM PDT

MushyMel said: Cat wait for the Nerdslayer video
OMG, so funny! I didn't even think of this. I guess we can say the glass is half full because at least we will get a new 'Death of a Game' video.
dorotea
- 3852 posts
October 28, 2023 6:32 PM PDT

Thunderleg said:
dorotea - "If there is no hope left we might as well write our contributions off and stop posting."

I am already at this point. As a PA tester, I have uninstalled the client and will be moving on. Best of luck to all who remain.

Thank you. I am staying for a while more to see how the dumpster fire plays out than for any other reason.
Sweety
- 226 posts
October 28, 2023 8:26 PM PDT

dorotea said:

Thunderleg said:
dorotea - "If there is no hope left we might as well write our contributions off and stop posting."

I am already at this point. As a PA tester, I have uninstalled the client and will be moving on. Best of luck to all who remain.

Thank you. I am staying for a while more to see how the dumpster fire plays out than for any other reason.

Same, this failure is almost becoming it's source of entertainment. Like a bad movie, some people walk out and skip the end. Some people stay to see how it ends, even though they know it's going to be a terrible ending.
Jobeson
- 810 posts
October 28, 2023 9:21 PM PDT

I hope we are all wrong and they somehow make millions off of this idea to fully fund pantheonmmo. I don't think its likely to happen though but I would have said no one would play fortnite as well.

I am also glad I get to see Pantheon even if its only in this form. (alpha backers get it for free) Sadly, I can't see wanting to play 247 more than 10 hours to see pieces of the mmo, exploring some of the zones, crafting, classes, climbing on stupid things.

I have played through tons of games like left for dead and aliens fireteam and the like with simple closed loops of 4 players which I could see working in slower paced mmo map dungeon mission chain. I can see D&D online like missions with no open world at all working to just run the same dungeons a dozen times. I can see bounty hunting like systems to track down a target(s) through a hostile world more in line with monster hunter working as long as the loop is tight. There are a lot of things I would have understood more in terms of games that appeal to me that could overlap with the MMO mechanics.

I don't see a full loot loss world working in the 247.
eunichron
- 273 posts
October 29, 2023 6:02 AM PDT

Sweety said: VR said they were fully funded till release.

VR never actually said this. What VR has said is that the current pace of funding and investment is enough to take them to release.

It's a minor but very important distinction.
Lakland
- 71 posts
October 29, 2023 7:32 AM PDT

Like most in this post I agree and saddened by the most recent news.

I was in from the beginning and was always in support. I turned 59 a few weeks ago and was wondering how much longer I'd hang around for this game.

After seeing the new videos and the graphics, I was very disheartened. They look like Fortnite, and I won't play a game that looks like that.

If i got the invite to do Alpha tomorrow, I'd be hard pressed to be interested.

I don't even know if EQ is still running, but maybe I just go back to that. I loved the community there and I feel this "appeal to a larger audience" is not the community I want to be involved with in Pantheon.
Sweety
- 226 posts
October 29, 2023 12:00 PM PDT

Lakland said:
I don't even know if EQ is still running, but maybe I just go back to that. I loved the community there and I feel this "appeal to a larger audience" is not the community I want to be involved with in Pantheon.

EQ & EQ2 are both alive and well. The 30th expansion is releasing this year. I still play nearly everyday.
Vandraad
- 2419 posts
October 29, 2023 12:06 PM PDT

Sweety said:
Lakland said: I don't even know if EQ is still running, but maybe I just go back to that. I loved the community there and I feel this "appeal to a larger audience" is not the community I want to be involved with in Pantheon.
EQ & EQ2 are both alive and well. The 30th expansion is releasing this year. I still play nearly everyday.

Between the TLPs and live servers, EQ1 still has a very health player population. Even EVE Online still is showing 25-28k people online pretty much consistently. The MMOs that are out there are quite alive.
treyburz
- 8 posts
October 29, 2023 12:06 PM PDT

Don't disagree with anything you're saying, OP, but no lawyer is taking crowdfunding class action lawsuits at this point. We knew the risks (and those of us who didn't should have). Hopefully they release something, even if it's not what I'm personally interested in playing anymore. I'm sure a good chunk of the VR staff is just as frustrated and disenchanted as we are. It's a shame all around.
Sweety
- 226 posts
October 29, 2023 12:09 PM PDT

treyburz said:
Don't disagree with anything you're saying, OP, but no lawyer is taking crowdfunding class action lawsuits at this point. We knew the risks (and those of us who didn't should have). Hopefully they release something, even if it's not what I'm personally interested in playing anymore. I'm sure a good chunk of the VR staff is just as frustrated and disenchanted as we are. It's a shame all around.

Yeah, I made this comment moments later:

Sweety said:

Tassen said:
on the topic of lawsuit, there will not be any. As long as they release something there is not grounds for suing. That's what pledging is.

I know, it was complete sarcasm.
RedGang
- 80 posts
October 29, 2023 5:12 PM PDT

Sweety said:
EQ & EQ2 are both alive and well. The 30th expansion is releasing this year. I still play nearly everyday.

While i generally agree with your OP, promoting EQ Live in the same breath completely destroys your credibility. Those games were an abomination 10 years ago, let alone in 2023.
Sweety
- 226 posts
October 29, 2023 9:32 PM PDT

RedGang said:

Sweety said:
EQ & EQ2 are both alive and well. The 30th expansion is releasing this year. I still play nearly everyday.

While i generally agree with your OP, promoting EQ Live in the same breath completely destroys your credibility. Those games were an abomination 10 years ago, let alone in 2023.

100,000 active subscribers disagree.
This post was edited by Sweety at October 29, 2023 9:32 PM PDT
dorotea
- 3852 posts
October 30, 2023 6:32 AM PDT

EQ Live and EQ Next have 100,000 active subscribers? Will wonders never cease?