Ruinar said:justdrop said:Spin machine still heavily active I see
If you're talking about me, no. I just don't like your attitude.
I'm not and I'm tired of the inability for others to accept reality and the lies by this company. At least you're honest.
Ruinar said:Marilee said:Lies of omission are still lies.
At least you're making an argument instead of just popping in to say that everyone who doesn't see things the way you do is dense.
The fact that you think this needs to be stated is laughable.
RedGang - "Hopefully CohhCarnage is throwing a sh**fit over this. I know he's a true classic EQ believer." I feel terrible for all the 'angel' investors (and VIPs)...Perhaps they will stage an, um, intervention (hostile or otherwise)?
Thunderleg said:RedGang - "Hopefully CohhCarnage is throwing a sh**fit over this. I know he's a true classic EQ believer." I feel terrible for all the 'angel' investors (and VIPs)...Perhaps they will stage an, um, intervention (hostile or otherwise)?
What power do you think we VIPs have in any of this? We can be as easily ignored by VR as anybody else. The fact is that VR already has our money and wont give it back. They are not beholden to us in any way whatsoever. It isn't like we could even stage a protest at their office because they dont have one. So anybody deciding to throw a sh**fit over this is just wasting their breath.
Vandraad said:Thunderleg said:RedGang - "Hopefully CohhCarnage is throwing a sh**fit over this. I know he's a true classic EQ believer." I feel terrible for all the 'angel' investors (and VIPs)...Perhaps they will stage an, um, intervention (hostile or otherwise)?
What power do you think we VIPs have in any of this? We can be as easily ignored by VR as anybody else. The fact is that VR already has our money and wont give it back. They are not beholden to us in any way whatsoever. It isn't like we could even stage a protest at their office because they dont have one. So anybody deciding to throw a sh**fit over this is just wasting their breath.
You're thinking like a boomer. Cohhcarnage has the power of 1.5million followers.
RedGang said:Vandraad said:Thunderleg said:RedGang - "Hopefully CohhCarnage is throwing a sh**fit over this. I know he's a true classic EQ believer." I feel terrible for all the 'angel' investors (and VIPs)...Perhaps they will stage an, um, intervention (hostile or otherwise)?
What power do you think we VIPs have in any of this? We can be as easily ignored by VR as anybody else. The fact is that VR already has our money and wont give it back. They are not beholden to us in any way whatsoever. It isn't like we could even stage a protest at their office because they dont have one. So anybody deciding to throw a sh**fit over this is just wasting their breath.
You're thinking like a boomer. Cohhcarnage has the power of 1.5million followers.
Ruinar said:RedGang said:Vandraad said:Thunderleg said:RedGang - "Hopefully CohhCarnage is throwing a sh**fit over this. I know he's a true classic EQ believer." I feel terrible for all the 'angel' investors (and VIPs)...Perhaps they will stage an, um, intervention (hostile or otherwise)?
What power do you think we VIPs have in any of this? We can be as easily ignored by VR as anybody else. The fact is that VR already has our money and wont give it back. They are not beholden to us in any way whatsoever. It isn't like we could even stage a protest at their office because they dont have one. So anybody deciding to throw a sh**fit over this is just wasting their breath.
You're thinking like a boomer. Cohhcarnage has the power of 1.5million followers.
Cohh isn't impartial. He is an investor. He loses money if Pantheon fails. Don't expect him to stir the pot, even if he wanted to.
He will waste money if he doesn't stir the pot. He didn't invest because Pantheon is some AAA Warren Buffet endorsed strategy, he wants a EQ1 classic successor and this is straying further from that with each passing day.
Marilee said:Lies of omission are still lies.
Depends on the definition of lie, doesn't it?
To a lawyer a lie is a statement of fact (not opinion) which is untrue and which the speaker either knows is untrue or which the speaker makes with reckless disregard of whether it is true or false. More or less - the definition will vary by jurisdiction.
An attempt to "spin" a situation in a way as to persuade the reader that things are much better than they actually are by omission of relevant facts is usually not considered a lie.
Please note that I am not disagreeing with you. I am not saying VR did not lie, any more than I am saying they did lie. Just tossing out the definition of "lie".
Vandraad - "What power do you think we VIPs have in any of this? We can be as easily ignored by VR as anybody else. The fact is that VR already has our money and wont give it back. They are not beholden to us in any way whatsoever. It isn't like we could even stage a protest at their office because they dont have one. So anybody deciding to throw a sh**fit over this is just wasting their breath."
Oh Vandaddy, you know very well I was focusing on the six/seven-figure investors, the VIP thing was in parentheses as a courtesy. With large amounts of capital having been expended the investors will want the near-death body before it has expired, will they not?
dorotea said:Marilee said:Lies of omission are still lies.
Depends on the definition of lie, doesn't it?
To a lawyer a lie is a statement of fact (not opinion) which is untrue and which the speaker either knows is untrue or which the speaker makes with reckless disregard of whether it is true or false. More or less - the definition will vary by jurisdiction.
An attempt to "spin" a situation in a way as to persuade the reader that things are much better than they actually are by omission of relevant facts is usually not considered a lie.
Please note that I am not disagreeing with you. I am not saying VR did not lie, any more than I am saying they did lie. Just tossing out the definition of "lie".
So I asked my son if a lie of omission is a lie. He is, in fact, a lawyer.
His answer: "Uhh, sort of? In law if you know something and keep it to yourself sometimes that's ok sometimes not. Depends on if the lie changes the outcome."
But I'm not a lawyer and I don't really feel like playing semantic games. There is no positive spin here for me.
Ruinar said:Cohh isn't impartial. He is an investor. He loses money if Pantheon fails. Don't expect him to stir the pot, even if he wanted to.
Nah. He may be an investor, but he already did say (between the lines) that he does not expect much anymore.That is as critical of anything I have ever seen him. He never says bad things about anything. The omission of positive words is a flaming rebuke of all things Pantheon for him.
Then again,... he is set for life with millions and millions coming in each year. No matter how big he is in Pantheon,... his reputation will be worth more to him. I am not counting on him staying silent, if **** hits the fan. And that will be the final nail in the coffin for the project id say.
VR, please scale back considerably and release the game sooner. I think if you do the following it will be a recipe for success:
I think a very, very scaled back game will still be fun and financially successful for VR and I base that on the feedback you’ve already received from testers.
Dreamer said:VR, please scale back considerably and release the game sooner. I think if you do the following it will be a recipe for success:
- Cut back from 3 continents to 1 continent.
- Cut back from 9 starting cites to 1 city.
- Cut back from 9 races to just 3 (humans, elves, halflings).
- Cut back from 14 classes, to just however many you have working well now
- Start with a max level of like 40.
- LAUNCH THE GAME!!!
- Add the other continents, starting cities, races, and classes AND raise the level cap in a series of expansion packs later.
I think a very, very scaled back game will still be fun and financially successful for VR and I base that on the feedback you’ve already received from testers.
Wait..Why just Human, Elves and Halflings...because those are the races you want to play? I don't want to play any of those so I'm just SOL then? Why not Skar, Ogre and Dark Myr as the starting 3? Or Dwarves, Archai and Gnomes?
As for 'however many you have working well now? That would be about 2 or 3 out of the 6 currently available. Woulc you pay a monthly subscription for game with 3 mostly functioning classes and 3 that are so horribly broken and unbalanced as to be unplayabe?
Ridiculous ideas...but VR would probably go with it.
Dreamer said:VR, please scale back considerably and release the game sooner. I think if you do the following it will be a recipe for success:
- Cut back from 3 continents to 1 continent.
- Cut back from 9 starting cites to 1 city.
- Cut back from 9 races to just 3 (humans, elves, halflings).
- Cut back from 14 classes, to just however many you have working well now
- Start with a max level of like 40.
- LAUNCH THE GAME!!!
- Add the other continents, starting cities, races, and classes AND raise the level cap in a series of expansion packs later.
I think a very, very scaled back game will still be fun and financially successful for VR and I base that on the feedback you’ve already received from testers.
I would not pay a subscription fee for 1/3 of a game I already paid for, just as I would not say yes to a dessert order from a restaurant that took my money for my order, then came out with a salad and told me the main dish is coming soon. Is this really the level we've sunk to as consumers? Zero self-respect whatsoever? They treat you like nothng and you thank them for the privilege.
And don't you dare try to say an all or nothing approach is unreasonable. We've seen what this company has done without a leash and it's tear up the cushions and leave a mess on the rug. They've done absolutely nothing to earn your trust and if you paid attention have done everything to lose it.
Is this going to be free for Alpha pledgers? It's highly unlikely I'd spend more money on Pantheon for an extraction version. Especially if its pvp focused, not a big fan of any kind of pvp and especially not in mmos.
Also, I wish they would do an in-depth video show casing this mode, with multiple devs discussing and answering questions from the player base on recent changes. Explain the merits behind the decision, what progress can be made by testing in this manner, etc. Im sure much of the fanbase still wants to beleive in Pantheon and they really just need to understand whats going on. An outline on the Producers letter seems a little lacking especially with how worked up the community seems to be over this.
Just my 2 cents.
I don't get how for over a year or two they had examples of player areas, then for it all to be scrapped. Is the Unity Engine the linchpin? Is Unity unable to scale, and since they've invested so much into it, it's the reason why years of development are lost? Why couldn't VR concentrate of the core map areas for stage one release, then add content originally planned, later. They could have kept the graphics style too. So strange. People have to conclude the skills to bring this all together aren't with the staff at VR.
Also it's time to drop the NDA's and come clear. Let poeple help as volunteers, etc.
rencil said:Why couldn't VR concentrate of the core map areas for stage one release, then add content originally planned, later. They could have kept the graphics style too. .
I think scope creep is the name of the game. Scope creep is the bane of many industries from engineering to game development. But the thing about scope creep is that it tends to overpromise and underdeliver. But I would rather the company just be honest with us the gamers about the scope creep, dial it back and give us a game we can start to play and monetize. Figure out a way to monetize that experience and keep building on the game. Stuff happens, scope creep happens, I have seen it in my workplace and beyond. But hey let us know, tell us and we can work from there to figure out a solution that works for the company and gamers.
Xerion said:rencil said:Why couldn't VR concentrate of the core map areas for stage one release, then add content originally planned, later. They could have kept the graphics style too. .
I think scope creep is the name of the game. Scope creep is the bane of many industries from engineering to game development. But the thing about scope creep is that it tends to overpromise and underdeliver. But I would rather the company just be honest with us the gamers about the scope creep, dial it back and give us a game we can start to play and monetize. Figure out a way to monetize that experience and keep building on the game. Stuff happens, scope creep happens, I have seen it in my workplace and beyond. But hey let us know, tell us and we can work from there to figure out a solution that works for the company and gamers.
Scope creep and mismanagement (although you could say scope creep is mismanagement). How many thousands of hours are thrown away when they switch tools / refactor / throw away old art. The answer is always that the new tool, system, art will acceellerate production. This is likely NOT a lie and may even be correct. The mismanagement isn't necessarily these shake-ups. The mismanagement is the thousands of hours wasted before the shake-up.
Even experienced studios have these problems, but I suspect inexperience has a role to play as well.