Not all raids have to be formal and involve a Dungeon end boss. Low level raids could be something as simple as an ad hoc keep defense. A keep near a lowbie area could report being under seige and call for aid. It could have two or three breach points that all need defending. This allows nearby groups to join in the defense without first needing to schedule the event. They could (and should) try to coordinate the defense, but it would basically be a PUG raid.
This can be quite fun, a break from normal activity (if not overused), and a good first start to multi-group content. Especially if the attack comes in progressively harder waves with lulls in between to recover and coordinate the defense
kungfukappa said:I think new players are already dealing with enough - UI familizarization, immersion in to the world itself, basic mechanics, character uniqueness - that it can be said they are already learning the game in stages at low levels, and that adding organized raid content on top of that is a bit much.
This argument would only apply if this was a rail roaded game where you were required to complete the Raid in order to progess. As with any and all encounters in the game, doing any multi-group encounter would be optional and you could wait until you were ready and comfortable with your character before attempting it.
Counterfleche said:Not all raids have to be formal and involve a Dungeon end boss. Low level raids could be something as simple as an ad hoc keep defense. A keep near a lowbie area could report being under seige and call for aid. It could have two or three breach points that all need defending. This allows nearby groups to join in the defense without first needing to schedule the event. They could (and should) try to coordinate the defense, but it would basically be a PUG raid.
This can be quite fun, a break from normal activity (if not overused), and a good first start to multi-group content. Especially if the attack comes in progressively harder waves with lulls in between to recover and coordinate the defense
I was trying to think this through in the Discord earlier.
I really think it would be beneficial for Pantheon to encourage grouping and raiding (which is just multi-group content really) as early as possible to get folks used to the concepts, as a return to actual multi-player focus is a major (if not the major) differentiator from the way the modern MMORPG genre has gone.
A low level raid might well be something more 'informal' than would happen later on, just like low level grouping is more likely to be non-optimal groups, duos, trios, etc.
Something *like* a 'public' quest where you just rock up and join in, but obviously trying to avoid the issues with modern MMORPG public quests being usually just an unchallenging zerg of solo players.
I seem to remember the spontaneous rift eruptions in the game Rift were originally often quite difficult. It was a matter of just turning up, but if you were solo you would often die. If you were with one or two other players, you would still die if you were all DPS or the tank didn't taunt and the healer didn't heal others. It was basically best to ask for an impromptu, temporary rift group to take it down.
As with Counterfleche's idea I can imagine a spontaneous event where say 3 spots in the zone require a group to form (and defend, or whatever) and eventually the groups need to get together in a final fight.
Something like a public quest event in it's informality and duration, but more structured than the unchallenging solo-player zergs public quests are in other games.
For those that know it, I'm also remembering with huge fondness the Coldain Ring quest event where giants turn up in waves and several groups are needed to defeat them. Something (on a much smaller scale, obviously) would be a fantastic thing to encounter to kickstart one's experience in Terminus at low level. Defending the bridges of Kingsreach from multiple Gadai raiders, maybe? Perhaps players would often see the odd Gadai assault the guards and lose, but sometimes there would be many more simultaneously and if players get involved, they take over from the guards.
It might be tricky to code and balance, I suppose, but because it's low level and more for fun and familiarisation, it is immersion and practice that is more important than precise balancing.
As the levels progress I would expect raid encounters to become tighter and more formal and balanced, but by then a much larger percentage of players than normal will be comfortable with grouping and multi-grouping and that would be a marvellous outcome.
I would love to see the 'raiding community' be the majority of players and not something that feels like it's reserved for the elite few.
Feastycentral said:I made a comment in Kilsin's "Community Opinion - End Game" post that has had me thinking for the last few days. Why isn't end game content, like raids and epic loot, not present in most games until the end game? Is it better that way?
It feels to me like most MMO's these days gate the content many of us really want to experience behind many hours, if not days, of in-game played time. I know people play these games for a plethora of reasons, such as crafting, socializing, achievements, exploration, etc. However, there is a big portion of us that play for the grouping experiences found in these massively multiplayer online games.
So, at what level do you believe raids should first be introduced in an MMO? Should they be kept as max level content? Should they be available as soon as regular dungeons are? If they are to be available pre-end game, how spread out should they be level-wise? (ex. at lvl 15, 30, 45, 50)
I think that there should be raid content at all levels. It would be just as cool to see a bunch of level 10s trying to bring down a MOB as it would be to see a bunch of level 50s trying to bring down a MOB.
