Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Consideration of the game design decisions that separate friends

    • 1479 posts
    July 20, 2022 5:19 PM PDT

    I remain astonished over time about how limitations can be seens as "voluntary designs to make the game less enjoyable".

     

    Rules, limitations, distance, time, are what makes the game coherent.

     

    Multiplying starting zone or making them all/all will simply reduce both immersion, coherence and population in the same zones, especially lower levels that are the fastest.

     

    Removing boundaries won't make them game better, or lasting longer, or retain population. It will reduce the impact of planning, coordinating and finding middle grounds both in race choices and areas of adventuring.

     

    In the end, all is just time, and a little more or a little less won't change things overall. If your friends quit because they must travel to meet your character, they would have left the moment your stopped holding their hand and keeping them motivated because the game doesn't appeal them anymore.

    • 113 posts
    July 20, 2022 6:27 PM PDT

    @Susurrus one reason you are seeing more pushback than you expected is that this game is trying to be more of a virtual World feel, not a quick fire game. Like you're supposed to live in it and poke around, not just fight to fight to quest to quest to boss to boss constantly. There are other times besides those that exist in Pantheon. A lot of these choices mean/do more than one would think, they shape the way that players play. When you suggest blurring the lines on starting areas it has all sorts of ramifications that the fantheons are concerned with, as you've seen. 

     

    Anyway here is my oldschool rant tho, no offense, get off my lawn. 

    So things like being able to plan and compromise on a race/class matrix with your friends.. Not all console/cell/modern mmo gamers are going to like a slower game like this. We didn't even have cellphones and yall can't stay entertained for an hour on Discord planning out how to make your group work with shared cloud files? Or keep them around for an hour on launch day? Group texts? FB group? 

    add: Think of it as a 12 month game and not a 2month game. The time spent getting together is going to be dwarfed by the rest of the adventure.

     

     


    This post was edited by GeneralReb at July 20, 2022 6:38 PM PDT
    • 560 posts
    July 20, 2022 7:36 PM PDT

    You are not alone. I also grew up with no cell phone, internet, etc. Heck, I grew up in a small remote town so we also did not have running water, electricity. I guess I might add in the normal trope “it was uphill to and from school in 10 feet of snow” Well for me it was a skiff ride but are we done measuring how old we are yet?

    I hope Pantheon will be a multiyear journey I would even like it if it took me more than a year to get to max level. It took me more then a year to max out my Wizard in EQ.

    I get the general reductants to make a change to what we are used too but I am not sure I am with you on making it hard for groups to stick to gather unless someone in your group has to bite the bullet and picks a race/class combo that was not their ideal choice.

    There are hills I would die on to protect the old school feel. Things I would die on a hill for is keeping monsters slow to kill, downtime between kills, no quest hubs, The list go’s on and on. There is a reason we are all here excited about Pantheon.

    But more important to me than an immersive word is the social aspect. A largest part of social to me is keeping in touch and playing with my friends.

    • 612 posts
    July 21, 2022 1:17 AM PDT

    I realize that travel distance and danger is an obvious aspect to this, but I think that the more pressing problem stems from the Faction problems. In EQ if an Ogre tried to walk into one of the Human towns he was instantly targeted by the Guards and chased out or slain. But if you recall that even in EQ they had the tech to prevent NPC vendors or quest givers from attacking players who's faction was in the normally KoS (Kill on Sight) level. These Vendors would not sell to these players, but they wouldn't attack them unless specifically provoked in some way.

    In any civilized society even when one group is disliked or dispised there is still a level of decorum and civility expected within towns and cities. Killing visitors to your city shouldn't be a common occurrence even if the visitor is from a disliked group faction wise. The visitor may be followed and watched; Perhaps they are turned away at Private locations like a Temple or a Club; Vendors may either refuse to do business with them, or perhaps just give them terrible prices. But outright slaughter of a visitor to your city should normally be taboo.

    If we take this theory to Pantheon... It could be that while Ogre's would not be liked in Thronefast, the Guards and other NPC's in the town (and maybe even surrounding villages) could be coded not to actually attack Player characters who have terrible faction with them. This does not mean they would treat them like they would a human player, such as Helping them survive if they run into town trailing an enemy. Instead the Guards could ignore helping the Ogre, perhaps even scowling and saying "You'll get no help from me!"

    This could allow Players of other races to come to these cities to play with their friends without the fear that a random Guard will slaughter them as soon as they come near. They might have the inconvenience of not being able to sell to normal vendors but would instead need to find Vendors who may be on a seperate Faction who will do business with them. Perhaps find NPC's of their own race who have raised their own faction up enough to be welcome in the town. In the real world we often see cultures who have representation within cities of other countries. Major American cities having a 'China Town' district for example. Perhaps there could also be travelling merchants from various races who set up outside the city itself in a field nearby.

    This may not apply though to Guards who are patrolling areas out far from the city or town itself. The Ogre can walk into town and not get ganked by the Guards... but if the Ogre came across a Guard patrolling the highway far from the city gates, the normal city civility rules may not be followed. So player may still need to be aware, just like they would need to be aware of the other roaming wolves or bears and such.

    • 161 posts
    July 21, 2022 4:59 AM PDT

    It's been implied that in early Alpha, there might be temporary starting areas for several Races in Kingsreach. If true, I would love to see remnants of this on Launch, to be part of the history for that location.

    • 2138 posts
    July 21, 2022 7:49 AM PDT

    Leave home to go to highschool (prep school, the "good" boarding school) learn independence and social dynamics, return summers to childhood home friends and that dynamic slowly changes, have a BF or GF? in 4 years college so...Leave HS and home again, to go to college. BG/GF also aware of this cut-off so it can be ainticipated or worked through, as you may not go to the same place, or... start anew! learn different social dynamics, no one knows you! nmaybe bf or gf ot 2 or 3 in college and in 4 years, off to adulthood. Scary. Have to adapt, jobs, income, no "third place" to meet people maybe jobs not at home but in new place. new people, or maybe at home, old friends may/may not be there but you have seen where they go from the summers but we all have changed. "professional" adult relationships, maybe in a few years hearken back to the HS or college BF/GF "hey remember the good old days?" if they are still single because times-a-wasting have to "adult" Friends will always be there, called someone I knew I hadnt seen in 10 years and we picked up as if we spoke yesterday- kinda thing. 

    No, Terminus world distance will not be an issue. As a Human I will meet my Skar friend in 2 years and we will pick up as if we had just got off the phone with each other yesterday and have so much more to share, and new friends to introduce because- I know them. I mean, I know them.