"Audio: In Progress
What it is: Develop environmental soundscapes, create unique sound effects for players and NPCs, and introduce ambient and signature music." - From the Producer's Letter, June 2022
For a game whose producer and creative director has a background in game audio, this has been way to quiet for way too long.
We have had rumors about ambient soundFX getting some attention and maybe a small whisper of "we'll let you know something soon", but that is about it. We have no idea what the plans are for the music of this game. Is it all going to be motif? Is the battle music going to be the same in all situations? Is anyone trying to push the envelope in this area on the team since that seems to be the play in every other aspect? Is there any creativity going on here? Is Joppa too busy playing a didgeridoo to answer questions about this? Has anyone at VR spent time reading the comments from the dozens of posts on music and what the community is feeling?
So much is being poured into the visuals of combat and, once again, music is getting no love. I though Joppa believed that the music was crucial to the immersion of the gameplay? He putting any money where his mouth is? Don't make me interview Puppet Joppa on NathanNapalm's channel...
We demand answers!
I'm not sure it's "getting no love", it's perhaps just not contentious of controversial hehe.
I think that everyone wants good sound. including some music. Plenty of ambient and incidental and theme and etc.
Perhaps everyone is happy to trust that Joppa has it all in hand?
I would like to hear some about the sound though, yes. It's been a while ;^)
Music absolutely elevates almost any gameplay session. Skyrim and Fallout benefitted greatly from their music. So, ya, more music and where is it?!!
/tangent - There was a guy I worked with who could not pronounce didgeridoo to save his life, heh.
also, Benonai is on a posting tear!
no doubt there will be game sound sliders...right?
I agree OP - I've been wanting music updates for years.
With that said... it's funny - I'm Vandraad-like in that combat music typically becomes tedious to me in MMOs and I usually turn the volume down if there's a separare slider, but I love environmental music, city themes, and ambient music. Looking back at EQ, nothing pulls at my nostalgic heart strings more than musical scores like the Kelethin theme. Would I have enjoyed EQ as much without them, most likely, but they do add that extra something for me.
For example, I was late to the console Zelda Breath of the Wild bandwagon, and while I love the game, I "miss" hearing overworld themes and one of the few areas that has them - Hyrule/Ganon's castle, I enjoy going to more for that reason.
Also, music can also increase or ease the tension for me in game and I imagine with the perception cues etc in game - there will be many audio cues as well.
There are other important uses of sound besides music.
For example, the wind might carry the sound of a distant fight or creature. Sound carries a much greater distance underwater.
Sound could be critical to creating a sense of place.
As for music, if the combat theme rotates, I really want something like the fight music from Star Trek's Amok Time, where Kirk champions Spock's intended mate.
Questaar said:Music in an mmorpg is, imo, a total waste of time, and money. I turn it off as soon as possible, because it's not real, it is immersion breaking, and detracts from environmental sounds. Just my two coppers.
Hmm. I know what you mean - and I wouldn't want constant background music either - but if you look at an MMORPG as, say, a cinematic thing - a film in which you direct the hero, for example - then to *not* have music is quite weird.
Cinematic use of music is pivotal - there's a reason there are Oscars for film scores, etc - and it's jarringly weird when you come across a film or such without it (though you might not realise what feels off when you first experience it).
It tends to get uses for transitions and introductions and the like, though, not constant background, and MMORPGs have done the same to good effect. You kind of ignore it, in a way, but whenever you come across something cinematic *without* music it makes it seem desolate and devoid of feeling.
In a book, the author will tell you how the heros are feeling and what they are thinking. There is a reason books often 'feel better' than films and certainly feel very different, because we know so much more about the emotions and thoughts behind what is happening. In a film (or a game) the music is, in part, a stand-in for that, creating the mood or giving hints to emotions that you might not be able to 'read' from the acting.
As for it not being 'real', well, having a movable window with which to view a world through a computer monitor does not feel very 'real', though we are used to it. Not having touch or smell does not feel real. Music is an analogy - a stand in - for what our avatars know, by reputation or instinct, and perhaps might feel, about a place or situation they are walking into.
And a monster biting and clawing us until we die, but then coming back from the dead and trying again, isn't real, so perhaps music to evoke a sense of fear and dread when the combat begins or to conjure the feeling of failure and defeat when we are 'killed' is to help it feel more 'real'?
I mean of course it's subjective - if you don't feel this way about music, that's fine - but I think, even if people don't realise it, most do enjoy cinematic use of music.
I'm on the side of the detractors here. Music is always the first setting I turn off in an MMO. I would rather more effort be put into ambient and environmental sounds than there be music at all. I'm not there for a cinematic experience, I'm there to experience the world, and the world is what I want to hear.
Exceptions to that may be an NPC in the forest playing a flute, or a minstrel strumming a lute at a pub, things of that nature. I don't want or need to hear a crescendo of brass and strings as I'm entering a capital city.
Hi disposalist,
I agree that on tv or a movie the music really adds to the moment. It also hints at what might be coming, and that's not real to me, though I can now see it feels real to others. In an mmo I try really hard to forget I'm "playing a game." I try to focus only on the surroundings. Listening to the ambient sounds because if I miss something I'm dead, even if I can come back to life. Coming back to life is part of the reality of being in another world or reality. I use only first person view because, it's more "real" to me. I avoid spoiler sites, because, that takes me out of the world the team is trying so hard to get me into. That's why I'm so happy that Terminus will have "perceptions" it kind of fits into the whole, "I notice this" which sometimes music does for others. It's not perfect but for me it's a big step forward.
It's hard to get this right. if we talk too much about it Joppa may swoon and catch a muse and start composing.
maybe area music can be important for future caravan idea? as you would not know where your char is, but you can tell by the ambient music when you come back to log into game? So like where Boat travel would be interactive in a sense with other players, mini-games for boat-only specialty items, maybe some small gambling- but not gambling- type games, and unique fishing or kite flying? opportunities. Caravan would be black screen or log on and at char splash screen, only music but a label saying "caravan" and maybe est time to destination OR your naked self in Butt-cheek ravine because you then learn your caravan got ganked. So like on a boat, you can jump off and swim and figure out where you are, if "caravaning" you can get "off" the caravan (enter game world from character splash screen) if you recognize the ambient music but have not yet reached the destination if you wanted to. The only thing is, there are many routes a caravan can take depending on world events/weather so you would have to deal with where you popped up, alone.
There is an existing mechanic where by the mere proximity of an individual player character to certain trees or landmarks would trigger a specific animal or ambient sound like an owl hooting, or a dock bell, so could there be instances of silence along the caravan, except for the occasional hoot, or screech that if you were keen enough you could also rmember where those sounds were. And maybe the faint tinkle of ambient music sounding way far away causing you to imagine just how far maybe you are from that town/village and squirm in anticipation if you dare jumping off, or, vacuming and folding the laundry and hoping you dont get ganked by the time you are done.
Benonai said: For a game whose producer and creative director has a background in game audio, this has been way to quiet for way too long.... We demand answers!
I have the sense that you're being dramatic to call attention here, and I completely understand the sentiment. But in case you didn't hear a bit of explanation that VR gave in a different situation a while ago, I'll try to paraphrase it.
VR has a limited income, and therefore a budget that is limited in how much they can spend on development at any one time. They flat out cannot be developing all parts of the game concurrently. Therefore, they made a plan to build the most vitally necessary parts of the game first, and leave other parts for later that don't absolutely need to be done until then.
(You may have noticed how this approach regularly results in VR announcing the beginning of work on a previously un-discussed part of the game and a chorus of voices arise on the forums to decry "feature creep, we don't need that NOW, just get the game released and do that later!". Despite the reality of that part of the game having been in the plans for years and needing to get done at this or that point in development.)
Even with the little I know about building an MMO, it seems pretty understandable to me that composing the music for the game is not the most technologically challenging part of the process. Artistically challenging no argument, but not a difficult process to add it once the music has been composed. I have no doubt that the game engine already has code in it for playing the music, as one more channel of the sound effects. So from a budgetary perspective, it seems perfectly reasonable IMO to build the game before composing its music.
Further, if we expect the music to strongly reflect the feeling of the lands, locations and people of Terminus that it will be accompanying, then it seems pretty rational to me that those lands, locations and people need to be created first so that the composer can have them as reference, as they attempt to 'describe them musically'. At least, that seems a ton easier to me than trying to compose music about people and places from nothing more than a written description of what they look like and how they will behave.
As far as I can tell, most - but not all - movie scores wait to get composed until after the film has finished shooting. While there may be several reasons for this, I would think that just as I describe above, any composer would like to SEE something of the scenes and scenery that he is supposed to be scoring.
We are currently seeing the art department starting to 'gear up' with new hires to crank out all the visual goodness that now can be used effectively by the game engine using the HDRP. That process will take however long it takes. Until a significant portion of Kingsreach's -at least- lands, locations and people are visually available, I wouldn't expect VR to need to hire a composer.
Unless of course you want Joppa to take a 6 month sabbatical from guiding development to just start composing. He might love to do that LoL, but I don't think it will get us to release any sooner :)
The Elder Scrolls music completely made the series for me. It was a huge differentiator that made every action, minor quest, cave exploration, etc. seem epic. I still listen to it all the time to make my own life more interesting. Elder Scrolls and Final Fantasy nailed the use of music in their games imo.
VR, go get you some Jeremy Soule (or equivalent I have not yet descovered)!
Nobuo Uematsu's music of Final Fantasy is another game defining composer.
Music is very important to my gameplay experience. I want to experience all the music, sounds and audible effects that Pantheon has to offer. Otherwise, I feel that I'm missing out on the experience.
I still very much appreciate the choral beauty of entering Stormwind in WoW although I've heard it a million times. When returning to WoW Classic, I was excited making my first my first trip back to Ironforge to hear that heavy and majestic sound when entering the Dwarvwen city.
The endless sounds that play in the background like a Rouge going into stealth and sounds of battle. I enjoyed every aspect of WoW's music/sound and very much look forward to experiencing that in Terminus. I'm already impressed by the music available for Pantheon and expect music to be that icing on the cake of things I get immersed in.
Knowing what Joppa has planned, I just wouldnt want to have my music off because I would be so bummed to miss this moment with all its atmospheric glory
https://youtu.be/yi8Cq9nQV-E?t=1691
Hokanu said:Knowing what Joppa has planned, I just wouldnt want to have my music off because I would be so bummed to miss this moment with all its atmospheric glory
https://youtu.be/yi8Cq9nQV-E?t=1691
I remember this stream and it was a good one. I was impressed by the music as well and know that this game will have legendary music equal to my favorite MMO. Also of note is how decent the graphics look here and knowing that it has improved and will get better is another huge plus for me. This will be an MMO for the ages.
Music/Audio is the most important aspect of a game for me as it's what sets apart many "good" games from those that are "Great". Games like Ori and the WIll of the Wisps, Frostpunk, & Elder Scrolls: Skyrim use a full orchestra to evoke emotions from 'atmospheric relaxation' to 'nail-biting intensity', while Stardew Valley, Night in the Woods, & Minecraft channel the kind of minimal, chill background music you can listen to for hours on end. Pantheon has certainly not yet released enough finished music themes or ambience to have established a style yet, so I'm looking forward to seeing how that progresses, particularly around the announcement of Alpha.
During one of CP's Dev roundtables (I think it was the "imminence" stream around the turn of 2022?) I asked Ben and CR in the livestream comments if there were plans for kicking music/audio into gear with additional hires, and they replied indicating that an additional hire for music/audio were quite possible before pre-alpha ends, but that music is primarily a topic for Alpha (likely for the reason mentioned above... that the regions, dungeons, and cities need to be fleshed-out enough that themes and environmental soundscapes can be built around them).