It just makes zero logical sense that a fall for a level 1 which causes 7 points of damage should, suddenly, cost 250 points of jdamage just because the second character has more hitpoints. That's just ridiculous. I agree that we don't want a super-hero game where, because of vast increase in HP pools, characters can fall ridiculous heights and just shrug it off, but just basing damage take off of your HP total is stupid.
I think they could satisfy both views on this if they used an exponential formula for fall damage rather than a linear. It might be reasonable for a more experienced and sturdy character to survive a higher fall than a less experienced or frail person. But NO one would survive a 200 foot drop (just as an example, you could set that curve however steep you want).
Everyone takes 20 damage from a 20 foot drop
Everyone takes 45 damage from an 30 foot drop
Everyone takes 125 damage from a 50 foot drop
Everyone takes 280 dmage from a 75 foot drop
Everyone takes 500 damage from a 100 foot drop
Everyone takes 2000 damage from a 200 foot drop
Etc.
But, to the most important question at hand, if you fall on an enemy it should certainly take damage! Use physicals to determine the force at which you collide with the creature to determine how much damage it takes! That way when you have a dead weight in your group you can just give them a simple job. "You, go stand on that cliff, when I tell you, JUMP!!" At least he'll do some damage as he dies.
Ranarius said:I think they could satisfy both views on this if they used an exponential formula for fall damage rather than a linear. It might be reasonable for a more experienced and sturdy character to survive a higher fall than a less experienced or frail person. But NO one would survive a 200 foot drop (just as an example, you could set that curve however steep you want).
Everyone takes 20 damage from a 20 foot drop
Everyone takes 45 damage from an 30 foot drop
Everyone takes 125 damage from a 50 foot drop
Everyone takes 280 dmage from a 75 foot drop
Everyone takes 500 damage from a 100 foot drop
Everyone takes 2000 damage from a 200 foot drop
Etc.
This is what actually makes sense. The distance determines the damage. Same distance, regardless of your race, class or level, you take the same damage. There does need to be a limit beyond which everyone, no matter how many HP, dies from that fall. It should be a distance where you want players to really consider jumping because the height they are looking at might exceed that limit. 200 feet for a guaranteed death? Fine. Just pick a distance that makes sense and stick with it.
Vandraad said:It just makes zero logical sense that a fall for a level 1 which causes 7 points of damage should, suddenly, cost 250 points of jdamage just because the second character has more hitpoints. That's just ridiculous. I agree that we don't want a super-hero game where, because of vast increase in HP pools, characters can fall ridiculous heights and just shrug it off, but just basing damage take off of your HP total is stupid.
Logic should never get in the way of the desired purpose of some part of the game. We shouldn't have flying mounts just because it is logical in a magical world that we would find a way to make levitating objects, or tame large flying monsters. We shouldn't be able to hire npcs to raid for us even though it is logical that enough money could certainly buy the help. Enemies should respawn even if it is logical that they don't.
We shouldn't not die from high falls just because it is logical that a higher level has stronger legs, unless being invincible to falls is desired gameplay... At which point I ask "why is it not desired game play for low levels? Why should the game be harder at lower levels than high levels?"
Now if you want to find a logical way to ensure that the game is NOT harder for lower level players in the case of falling, I'm all for it.
Also, if you want low levels and high levels to be invincible to falls it's at least better than making the game harder at low levels.
Gameplay-focused sense is far better for games than logical sense, imo, in situations where you can only pick one.
This topic has been promoted for my CM content, please continue the discussion and have fun! :)
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Back in my EQ days I called it getting to a point suitable for dying. Sometimes, you know you cannot win so rather than fight to win you fight to get to a point where corpse recovery is more likely not to cause a chain death situation trying to recover corpse. That said just jumping from a high point may not be the best option unles you know for a fact that you can reach the point your corpse ends up. better off back tracking as much as possible.
Just my 2 cents
Terminus is not for the faint of heart, if killing and stealing loot bothers you might I suggest "Animal Crossing" might be more your speed... I am 100% for a nose dive off a cliff to lose aggravated pursuit, weigh out the risk verse return. If the EXP Loss, Equipment Damage and Corpse Run is less than the value you made away with then it was a profitable venture. Classes with the skill set should get a safe fall check and maybe survive... Why not. Not every encounter should be a burn the mob down time and time again. There should be more than one way to play. Hail the Sneaky and the Crafty! Break the chains that dictate how you should play! As far as damage goes - it should be x hp per 10 feet of falling equally applied to all and a safe fall skill should reduce damage by a percentage so if high enough all will die... Game balance will have to dictate what that is. I don't want to hear people complain about realism! You are playing a Dragon slaying Elf Ranger and suddenly when it comes to gravity it has to be real? come on now! roll with it!
Headstone said:Not every encounter should be a burn the mob down time and time again. There should be more than one way to play. Hail the Sneaky and the Crafty! Break the chains that dictate how you should play!
Down with the man!! Oh wait, who's the man in this situation? On a more serious note, what are some other options for getting loot from mobs other than killing them? Pickpocket? Challenge them to a battle of wits? Maybe a chess match? Maybe sneak into their chambers and take their stuff unnoticed? Scam them? Hmmm, what else?
Ranarius said:Headstone said:Not every encounter should be a burn the mob down time and time again. There should be more than one way to play. Hail the Sneaky and the Crafty! Break the chains that dictate how you should play!
Down with the man!! Oh wait, who's the man in this situation? On a more serious note, what are some other options for getting loot from mobs other than killing them? Pickpocket? Challenge them to a battle of wits? Maybe a chess match? Maybe sneak into their chambers and take their stuff unnoticed? Scam them? Hmmm, what else?
Regardless of what Sir David Attenborough has to say or might have said on the subject, regarding other options: When a bear gets honey does he just not mind the stings? I mean, he'll stick his snout right in the bole of a tree and snuffle a mouthfull of comb- leading with the sensitive exposed nose! amongst the cloud of angry bees. Is the fur that good? or does the bear just accept those stings as part of honey snacking? So, would it behoove the natural-minded crafter to make careful and small snips to the bears hide as if imitating the stings of bees to harvest quality hides whilst the bear is concentrating on munching to sate its famished state after waking from it's hibernation?
OK, more fuel for the fire. Say you jump off a cliff and are falling, you pass close by an outcropping and can grab hold. Does this dead stop your fall? Do you take damage? Do you instead get forced into a spin because you changed your center of rotation for a brief moment before loosing grip? Do you hit the ledges and outcroppings and tumble down like Link in BOTW? Do you make any funny noises as you bounce off the terrain? If you impact the ground with a 'thud! ' do the witnessing sentient squirrels chuckle at your pratfalls? Does a goblin teabag your corpse? Seriously, falls should hurt and I look forward to finding unique and wonderful tests to determine if my Halfling can fly after eating that strange mushroom the traveling witch sold me.
Kilsin said:This topic has been promoted for my CM content, please continue the discussion and have fun! :)
"Hot Topic - Jumping As Escape - What are your thoughts on being able to use a jump to escape an enemy and collect your corpse full of stolen loot at the bottom of a cliff? Join in on this community-created topic and let us know https://seforums.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/13679/jumping-as-escape #MMORPG #CommunityMatters"
There doesn't have to be an enemy. If someone drops to their death, most of the time, one should be able to retreive their stolen loot one way or the other. But there should be occassions where you cannot, be that rare occassions.
My assumption would be, that if you jump of cliffside where an enemy was located, that enemy knows a route down that cliff.. since they're familiar with that area. Most likely it will use the same route as what a player would use to retreive their corpse/stole loot at the bottom of that cliff.
So in case you jump off and live, the mob might continue the chase as you're falling down and hit the ground. He will not be scripted to jump off after you. Or if the location has cliffs that aren't too deep, that defense post/enemy might also rely on ranged abilities/utilities. So if you live after you jump down, they'll use that to further chase you away. So in that sense, jump to escape and run away would be more complex. But jump and die on impact to escape would be possible. Your debt will be greater, but you'd have achieved your goal.
There are some designs that allow you to pick up your body/loot when you're in proximity of your spot where you died last. So if the enemy is still standing on your dead bones, you might be able to pick it up at certain range. This could still be within aggro range, that depends on the mob or location I guess.
Although it doesn't make sense logically, I would accept the % fall damage. Just so that you mitigate players to use this jump tactic to bypass or train groups past mobs they shouldn't be able to get passed. It's a different thing with feign death or evac, but if you can prevent this jump tactic purely by thinking thouroughly on how to design the location or area (and it's falling damage), you've prevented this tactic all together.
Would jumping from a high place into water cause the player to no damage whatsoever? Because that's been the case in MMOs old and new, even RPGs. Aim for the water and, assuming it's deep enough, you'll survive the fall. Even if there are dangers in the water, and generally there aren't, very few are comparable to the ones on dry land. And if they aggro, most can be outswam and none will drag you under. So bodies of water are basically safety nets. Maybe one's swimming skill + safe fall could potentially decrease the damage taken when plunging into water? So if your swimming skill is 0, you belly flop into the waves and if it's maxed out, you perform a graceful dive.
I am not sure bodies of water should be considered safety nets, we have no idea what lies beneath. Even if the water impact causes no damage we don't know how deep the water is or if there's a stump near the surface, or maybe stinging jellyfish! Depending on how much energy you spent running to jump off that cliff you might not even have energy to swim to shore and you drown.
Totally understand though that most games (*cough* minecraft) don't care how deep or how big the water is that you land in, you take no damage. I'm hoping VR puts some thought into that :)
Skyrim and EverQuest come to mind as well. Zero fall damage taken thanks to water, regardless of the drop distance. It can feel exhilerating. And it's in a lot of movies (Fugitive/Apocalypto). But it also offers an easy way out which goes against the "worlds not games" perspective. Oh man though, jellyfish/eels would be such a strong deterrent. Very "out of the frying pan and into the fire". Think of the player out of range of their group's emergency evac who decides to leap off of a cliff to avoid certain death, only to splash into a multitude of stun-locking tentacles and die anyway. Then having to wait and see if the jellyfish/eels move on from the vicinity of their corpse.
Other substances could break one's fall as well...
https://origins.osu.edu/milestones/may-2018-out-window-religion-politics-and-defenestration-prague?language_content_entity=en
Vilém Slavata of Chlum and Václav Bořita of Martinice, the two unfortunate royal advisors ... survived the approximately 70 foot fall from the window.
Fortunately for the airborne advisors, adjacent to the wing that housed the offices from which they were defenestrated (yes, it is a verb) was a large hall often used for indoor equestrian events. A natural by-product of these events was the accumulation of a rather large pile of horse manure in the courtyard below these windows.
It was this pile of spongy fertilizer and not—as Habsburg propagandists immediately asserted—angels swooping to the rescue of the righteous and aggrieved Catholic ministers, that prevented mortal injury to Vilém and Václav. It enabled them to affect an immediate retreat to Vienna where they reported the whole ordeal to an enraged and indignant Ferdinand.
Just make sure that you make the Goofy Yell when you jump!
If players take fall damage I think mobs should too. If npc's really want to follow a player off a cliff rather than smugly bask the victory of chasing him off, they should pay for it in HP. Also I think that NPC's that find themselves in places where they can not return to their spawn point should find a new place to patrol nearby. NPC's resetting by teleporting back to their spawn location with full HP are completely immersion breaking. If they can climb back to their spawn location they should have to climb, and they should be just as vulnerable to attacks while climbing as players.