Seeing some of the high vantage points where there is sure to be a congregation of sour and unpleasant characters guarding their chest full of worm juice and rusty spoons, I can't help but think if things go south I can leap off the cliff edge and just plan on retrieving my corpse at the bottom with ease.
Or is that just planning for failure?
Anyhoo,,,,, if I land on an enemy at the bottom, do they take damage from my bodily impact?
I've seen Roenik fall pretty far on stream before. In the Dec 2018 dev stream they made a joke about him missing the jump and then he did (not on purpose) a few minutes later. I think there were some jumping shenanigans in the 2016 Monk stream with Cohh where they jumped from the tower of the mad magician.
I think it is a valid escape strategy and in some cases could facilitate easier corpse retrieval. I could see even planning your pulls so that you are fighting on a cliff edge so people could bail in the case a wipe was coming.
StoneFish said:Seeing some of the high vantage points where there is sure to be a congregation of sour and unpleasant characters guarding their chest full of worm juice and rusty spoons, I can't help but think if things go south I can leap off the cliff edge and just plan on retrieving my corpse at the bottom with ease.
Or is that just planning for failure?
Anyhoo,,,,, if I land on an enemy at the bottom, do they take damage from my bodily impact?
Interesting points! Personally I hope they do it Souls style so your corpse is where you were a few seconds before you died. Also before any cliffs or standing in glitches. That way you gotta go get your corpse where things got rough. I don't mind a simple corpse calling mechanic, a ressurection mechanic(from certain classes), as well as a corpse summoning mechanic (from certain classes)to make it easier though.
I want death to suck, and teamwork to rock. Getting your corpse on the bottom of the cliff you jumped off of feels like cheating to me.
I would love if falling on things had a small poise break available, but letting you do a whole lot of damage would probably lead to exploiting safe fall and climbing mechanics.
I noticed in one of the hills or mountain tops they showed us, it looked like there were pretty vast to navigate. Which is good but I hope there will be a decent amount of speed walking / running.
Cliffs and falls raise interesting possibilities. One being whether you can "cheat" and find a drop sufficient to not kill you but where the enemies won't jump down after you. Another being whether you can defeat superior enemy forces where some or all classes have the ability to push them down to their deaths but they cannot, or are not programmed well enough, to do the same to you.
dorotea said:Cliffs and falls raise interesting possibilities. One being whether you can "cheat" and find a drop sufficient to not kill you but where the enemies won't jump down after you. Another being whether you can defeat superior enemy forces where some or all classes have the ability to push them down to their deaths but they cannot, or are not programmed well enough, to do the same to you.
They have already shown in the Combat tactics Stream that some mobs can knock you off ledges. They also said that Black Rose Keep will have pushback and knockdowns as a prominent acclimation on some of the mobs. Teamwork makes the dreamwork, cause we are in for a fun and dangerous ride boys and girls.
What would be really fun would be a short range ally port spell with a half second cast. If an ally gets knocked off, you could quickly port them back before they hit the ground.
Or maybe we could rope in when on a precipice (assuming Pantheon has climbing ropes). It would limit you to a small area, but if you got knocked off, you could climb back up and rejoin the fight.
Counterfleche said:What would be really fun would be a short range ally port spell with a half second cast. If an ally gets knocked off, you could quickly port them back before they hit the ground.
Or maybe we could rope in when on a precipice (assuming Pantheon has climbing ropes). It would limit you to a small area, but if you got knocked off, you could climb back up and rejoin the fight.
...CotH but keep a timer on it for finesse. 6 seconds? you have to mentally calculate how long it takes them with the run speed buff they have to run that distance- whatever it is you see from first person view (not the cheating and non-immersive third person view, yes cheating always was cheating) and jump off, mentally also judging how long it will take them to fall the distance from where they jump to where you know the ground to be and with those assumptions, know juuuust when to cast.
Without speaking and intuitively feeling compassion and assuming what your party member may be thinking in that instant as they are being attacked and pursued- whether they are deciding to turn and fight or to die and buy the group time in that very empathic instance you shout~ keep running!. Realization dawns in his mind with the memories of countless adventures with you as he pirouette's in the midst of the enemies battle and seemingly bounds to his death over the edge. The ground doesnt seem to approach as quickly at first as he mutters, come on- come on, while the wind of his falling pushes the tears out of the sides of his eyes. Come on- come on, you swear under your breath as this spell never took so long in the past. COME ON- COME ON he shouts as the dot of the guards head suddenly seems to inflate like a baloon as a face with an expression of shock at his falling approach only to...Hit the abdomen causing every ounce of breath to to leave your lungs with an audible OOF! as you see him standing there, the trail of tears streaming from the sides of his eyes, staring ahead, arms stretched out, fingertips shaking. Gasping as if from cold air, his eyes dart at you while his body remains rigid from shock. As if on queue, you both say "f**k".
Manouk said:...CotH but keep a timer on it for finesse. 6 seconds? you have to mentally calculate how long it takes them with the run speed buff they have to run that distance- whatever it is you see from first person view (not the cheating and non-immersive third person view, yes cheating always was cheating) and jump off, mentally also judging how long it will take them to fall the distance from where they jump to where you know the ground to be and with those assumptions, know juuuust when to cast.
Without speaking and intuitively feeling compassion and assuming what your party member may be thinking in that instant as they are being attacked and pursued- whether they are deciding to turn and fight or to die and buy the group time in that very empathic instance you shout~ keep running!. Realization dawns in his mind with the memories of countless adventures with you as he pirouette's in the midst of the enemies battle and seemingly bounds to his death over the edge. The ground doesnt seem to approach as quickly at first as he mutters, come on- come on, while the wind of his falling pushes the tears out of the sides of his eyes. Come on- come on, you swear under your breath as this spell never took so long in the past. COME ON- COME ON he shouts as the dot of the guards head suddenly seems to inflate like a baloon as a face with an expression of shock at his falling approach only to...Hit the abdomen causing every ounce of breath to to leave your lungs with an audible OOF! as you see him standing there, the trail of tears streaming from the sides of his eyes, staring ahead, arms stretched out, fingertips shaking. Gasping as if from cold air, his eyes dart at you while his body remains rigid from shock. As if on queue, you both say "f**k".
Recreational hallucinogens are not for everybody pal.
Jumping off ledges will, sooner than later, be a very valid method of getting away from NPCs. Why? Because as we level up we'll get more and more HPs as stats go up and we start getting better and better gear. Eventually that height that killed you before will now only hurt you and eventually will barely make a dent in your HP total. So unless heights increase to ever higher and higher points, people jumping off heights as a quicker way to get from A to B will be commonplace.
Vandraad - you may be right but that would be poor design. Damage should apply on a percentage basis. A fall that costs a level 1 half of her hit points should cost a level 50 half of hers.
LOTRO for one did all too many things using absolute numbers and many things that made sense when done have become useless or even ridiculous. Percentages tend to work better and keep things viable at all character levels and even years into the future if hit points go up then.
dorotea said:Vandraad - you may be right but that would be poor design. Damage should apply on a percentage basis. A fall that costs a level 1 half of her hit points should cost a level 50 half of hers.
Really? So a level 1 with 15hp drops off a ledge 20ft high and loses 7 hp. A level 50 with 500hp falling off that same 20ft ledge should lose 250?
Vandraad said:dorotea said:Vandraad - you may be right but that would be poor design. Damage should apply on a percentage basis. A fall that costs a level 1 half of her hit points should cost a level 50 half of hers.
Really? So a level 1 with 15hp drops off a ledge 20ft high and loses 7 hp. A level 50 with 500hp falling off that same 20ft ledge should lose 250?
Yes. Percentage of HP on fall damage is more in line with how it feels as a game play element. Fall fear should be maintained.
Let's use an example. If I'm at the edge of a 50' cliff and jump off I'll take a lot of damage. If a top athlete at 50 years old jumps off the same cliff they take a lot of damage. If I throw a baby off the cliff they take a lot of damage. I don't have issue with spells or equipment lessening the damage taken a little bit (1-10% ) but I also want to avoid high HP players just jumping off cliffs and leaving fresh MOB trains behind on the cliff face for us low level peeps to get wiped by because the high HP players are now superheroes with no fear of the environment.
It should be an equation, where the distance fallen x damage HP per ft = damage taken. Base the damage HP off the average HP of a lvl 50 dying from a 50' fall.
This way the damage taken is the same for all characters, if you are lucky enough to have more than the calculated amount for some reason, you might survive, but would be severely wounded.
The calculation could become more progressive with height so shorter falls would not necessarily be relational to higher. a 40' fall would not be double the damage of a 20', it might be 3x or more
A level 1 with 15hp might very well die from a 10' fall then.
It is the increased speed during the fall that determines damage in real life. A 50' fall would be no different in real life from a 10' fall, if not for the increase in speed during the extra 40'
Vandraad said:dorotea said:Vandraad - you may be right but that would be poor design. Damage should apply on a percentage basis. A fall that costs a level 1 half of her hit points should cost a level 50 half of hers.
Really? So a level 1 with 15hp drops off a ledge 20ft high and loses 7 hp. A level 50 with 500hp falling off that same 20ft ledge should lose 250?
Absolutely. Why should falling become trivial with increased levels. Even if one assumes that level 50 equates to a top tier olympic athlete - and it should not - can such a person jump off of a skyscraper and land safely, perhaps with a sprained toe if the landing is very poor? Pantheon will not, thank all the Gods, be a superhero game.
dorotea said:Vandraad said:dorotea said:Vandraad - you may be right but that would be poor design. Damage should apply on a percentage basis. A fall that costs a level 1 half of her hit points should cost a level 50 half of hers.
Really? So a level 1 with 15hp drops off a ledge 20ft high and loses 7 hp. A level 50 with 500hp falling off that same 20ft ledge should lose 250?
Absolutely. Why should falling become trivial with increased levels. Even if one assumes that level 50 equates to a top tier olympic athlete - and it should not - can such a person jump off of a skyscraper and land safely, perhaps with a sprained toe if the landing is very poor? Pantheon will not, thank all the Gods, be a superhero game.
It just makes zero logical sense that a fall for a level 1 which causes 7 points of damage should, suddenly, cost 250 points of jdamage just because the second character has more hitpoints. That's just ridiculous. I agree that we don't want a super-hero game where, because of vast increase in HP pools, characters can fall ridiculous heights and just shrug it off, but just basing damage take off of your HP total is stupid.
StoneFish said:Manouk said:...CotH but keep a timer on it for finesse. 6 seconds? you have to mentally calculate how long it takes them with the run speed buff they have to run that distance- whatever it is you see from first person view (not the cheating and non-immersive third person view, yes cheating always was cheating) and jump off, mentally also judging how long it will take them to fall the distance from where they jump to where you know the ground to be and with those assumptions, know juuuust when to cast.
Without speaking and intuitively feeling compassion and assuming what your party member may be thinking in that instant as they are being attacked and pursued- whether they are deciding to turn and fight or to die and buy the group time in that very empathic instance you shout~ keep running!. Realization dawns in his mind with the memories of countless adventures with you as he pirouette's in the midst of the enemies battle and seemingly bounds to his death over the edge. The ground doesnt seem to approach as quickly at first as he mutters, come on- come on, while the wind of his falling pushes the tears out of the sides of his eyes. Come on- come on, you swear under your breath as this spell never took so long in the past. COME ON- COME ON he shouts as the dot of the guards head suddenly seems to inflate like a baloon as a face with an expression of shock at his falling approach only to...Hit the abdomen causing every ounce of breath to to leave your lungs with an audible OOF! as you see him standing there, the trail of tears streaming from the sides of his eyes, staring ahead, arms stretched out, fingertips shaking. Gasping as if from cold air, his eyes dart at you while his body remains rigid from shock. As if on queue, you both say "f**k".
Recreational hallucinogens are not for everybody pal.
Your comment on face value implies s**t is being given, are you giving s**t? Although I am not in the s**t business I will try to explain
I reference and take liberties to dramatize the "Call of The Hero" spell in EQ. In this case, being cast while the person is falling. I used this technique in EQ, namely in Sanctus Seru when we were too low for the area, we were working on the sigil of veracity earing quest. Our method was thus: We would approach one house on a given session, there were some see invis inside. I had sacrificed earlier finding a good spot. We had no "tanks" Group was Shaman, BST and Mage. At the right moment of pathing of NPC's Shaman would run inside, BSt would keep door open. Shaman would get aggro of see invis and in so doing, other NPC's and Train out. As he ran past the BSt and I would run in- to the "spot" I scouted earlier. As the shaman ran I would hurry to be still and start the Call of the hero spell on the shaman. As I cast the spell invis would drop so the spot had to be perfect while the BST kept a look out just in case. Since the shaman was exposed any NPC's he ran by would add to his train and increase his chances of death if I was not able to "Call" him in time. It was considered poor form to "train the zone" as it was a poor technique and we did not want ot do that. As the Call of the hero spell hit the shaman, he would instantly appear next to me and the BST, and the shaman's his train- would vanish since the Call of the hero spell would erase aggro. To any on-lookers, it would appear as if a player was in trouble as they saw the shaman run being followed by a horde of angry NPC's, only to then see the shaman dissapear and the NPC's, now befuddled at the vanished running shaman they were just chasing, would then calmly go about their usual business/pathing.
At the spot we could carefully pull one inside the room and use pets, if any one of us got aggro we would be one rounded, so there was alot of chain casting of pets going on. mine was the strongest and I was able to keep it up longer as I could heal it, shaman could dot- lightly at first as we had to wait a bit for pets to get aggro. and then we could cast some DD a bit. Poor BSt really couldn't melee but it was all very exciting and dangerous nonetheless. We got that part done on the earring for all of us. Good exp, too.
If I fall into an enemy from x hight does my impact cause damage? Yes/no/maybe. There is a very very loose following of "logic" for any of this because the main goal is to have fun and enjoy an adventure within a fictional world of magic, goblins, dragons and gnomes.
If I find myself and my group cornered with no escape but to leap off a cliff and hope to have some small chance of surviving or just dieing in a less precarious area, then Ill probably make that suggestion to the group. "Whoops gang, looks like we have found ourselves in a bit of a jam. Perhaps we should rapidly regroup below. What's the worst that could happen? Let's try and land on that wandering Orc down there". There is no real logic in this, only happy chaos and the chance for a funny story around the fire later.
@Manouk, that sounds like a blast. If the opportunity to do something similar in Pantheon exists, I would love to be part of it.
I hope that there is at least a couple of mob types that will run off cliffs after us (at least if sufficiently aggro'd). It's so mad it tries to kill you even as you fall to your death.
I would also like to see mobs that try to knock us off. It could be some crazed Gollum-like creature that jumps on your head and twists you around or a mob with wings for gliding that charges you, pushes you off, then glides down to eat your corpse.
Speaking of which, I'd like to see some scavenger mobs attracted to player corpses. Buzzards circling overhead would be a nice touch as well. And if you see a large flock of them circling off in the distance, it could indicate a group recently wiped there.