Feel free to add those things you've liked in other games or you always wanted and never seen
Ill start myself.
-Full control of Guild Ranks. (Back in wow i loved to have the "Prison" rank where the players couldnt even speak in guild chat)
-Guild tax + voluntary tax. GM can set the first one, gm and permitted ranks can see the voluntary tax of guild members. Taxes based on raw money looted from mobs.
-Guild Bank + Guild Store. GM and permitted ranks can put items and set a price for them in the Guild Store, in money or guild points (DKP), also set a max number of items purchased per day/week (for example ranks "Soldier" or higher can buy a stack of potions for very low price once per week.
-Guild points System. Add x points to all party/raid members button (with a text box to explain IE "Attendance"), Add x points to X Member, or class, or rank. Substract X points to all mentioned before. Also a detailed log which can set to public or just access to certain ranks.
-Guild calendar, motto, class/rank motto.
-Visual rank icons (with options to choose from many icons or to enable/disable) So in events a GM can activate icons for GM and certain officers next to their names. Maybe some guilds want the rank icons to be activated all the time, visible just for guild members.
-Guild Alerts! 3 level of visual and sound intensity, from normal alert with a little ding to fire alarm with flashes. Options for ranks to use them for free or spending fuild points, options for user and global CD on alerts.
-War effort shop. A shop where GM or certain officer ranks can buy items that normally would require the guild to farm/craft for guild money. IE potions, some items, exclusive war effort items. This is not against the guilds farming coordination, a guild with a good bunch of farmers and crafters would save a lot of money but a guild that cannot do those effciently yet can always shortcut with money.
-Guild Vault (maybe inside the guild bank) where everybody in the guild (or certain ranks) can freely donate items and money. GM or office can move this items into the guild bank or recycle them into money. (all this processes can cut a % to add money sinks)
-Guild achievements/levels: Some can be just about numbers (Your guild has killed 10000 wolves) other can be big quests doable with some guild effort, maybe some steps doable by just 1 player, other for a group and other in a big raid. Members can see what guild quests are active.
-Guild Buffs! Obtainable due the completion of guild achievements/quests, while active all guild members will obtain the buffs. GM or officers can change the active buff with a big CD. Really difficult buffs to obtain can be powerful or a guild may have even 2 or 3 buffs activated because they achieved really epic achievements/levels
-Guild colors, symbols, crests, etc... Also obtainable through achievents/quests (some basic for every guild) This will be shown in a tabard, cloaks, capes, tunics, shileds, banners... at player discrection. Can also be configured to be diferent in size, colors, crests, for each Rank. Maybe some ranks can plant temporary banners (just for showoff) or spray the guild colors and crest
... for sure i will come up with more ideas, ill post them as a reply, please feel free to add yours.
I'm assuming you mean 'Guild Master' by the term GM. It was a tad confusing at first, as I think of a GM as an employee of VR who exercises authority in the Game in real time.
All of your suggestions have merit to me except one. Taxes.
Taxes have a lot of controversy connected to them in real life. There is no universal opinion about what are 'good' and 'bad' taxes. I'd rather not open that can of worms in a fantasy, escapist game that I play. Of course a Guild can make whatever rules they want, including asking players to contribute cash for Guild purposes. But I believe that building any sort of taxation system into the Guild structure would strongly tend to 'normalize' the idea that Guild members "should" pay taxes and is way too much like one of the negative aspects of the world I live in.
I am against that one particular suggestion.
Also, F.Y.I. this post may get moved to the 'Guild' section of the forums.
Jothany said:I am against that one particular suggestion.
Also, F.Y.I. this post may get moved to the 'Guild' section of the forums.
Yeah, i will let mods to decide wheter to let it be here or be moved to guild but i feel this post is about game mechanics related to guilds and not about guilds themselves. Also i feel guild taxes are being normalized in other games and worked perfect, you can always join a "Tax free" guild.
PD: Taxes let humans leap from hunter-gatherers to modern societies, i dont realy feel taxes are something bad in real life but lets keep this about the game hehe, thaks for ur comment
OldTony said:Also i feel guild taxes are being normalized in other games and worked perfect, you can always join a "Tax free" guild.
Well there ya go. It's already being normalized. I'm against that. I've never been in a Guild that levied taxes. I don't want to have to make sure I'm joinging a "tax free" Guild. I'd rather Guilds have to notify recruits that they'll have to pay taxes if they join.
PD: Taxes let humans leap from hunter-gatherers to modern societies, i dont realy feel taxes are something bad in real life but lets keep this about the game hehe, thaks for ur comment
I agree we should stay on topic, even though you're completely mistaken about taxes being some significant cause of humanity's change from hunter-gatherer society to agricultural based society. :)
I saw a cool one from Swords of Legends Online:
Guild Recruitment Roster (This is in-game) - A comprehensive list of all the guilds with column 1 being Guild Name, and the remainder of the columns - Size/Active (yes/no)/Leader(s)/PvP/PvE/PvX/Currently Recruiting?
So it's kind of like a charter with all the guilds on the server and each one has the designated information listed above so players can simply see something they like and shoot the leader a DM or apply directly in-game with a messaging system to communicate. This is in conjunction to the list on the forums.
OldTony said:...long list...
I liked the list alot. For me and my guild, it is the guild bank having multiple 'vaults' where we can, through assigned roles, give guildmember various levels of access (input/output, input only, etc) into the guild bank. EVE Online had a great system for corporation banks.
I'd like to suggest you refer to this thread that covers the same topic. Compaire your list to the one Kilsin posted.
I am not a fan of the majority of those.
Taxes worked in Eve because the guild actually gave you territory to use for making money. The tax was partially paid to people who protect said territory from other players. Taxes just seem like a bad idea in a game like this.
Guild buffs are not desirable to me since I feel they don't really add anything that makes sense.
Guild levels and achievements are usually worthless. Nothing changes when your guild kills 10,000 wolves except it increases the arbitrarily low cap so you can "level up" I mean should you need to kill 100 wolves in order to have more than 10 people on your friends list? The idea just seems silly to me.
The guild shop is the guild bank where someone is going to an auction house. If you can't trust your officers with money they shouldn't be officers.
Guild factions are what I would like to see. I would personally like to see the negative side as well, but my guess is players would only want to see the positive changes. If your guild is farming halfling city guards for some reason you don't get looked at poorly for being in the same guild. If your guild is known for being saviors of the kobolds then those kobolds would treat you kindly until you give them a reason not to.
Things that I would like to see for guilds:
Things that I don't want to see.
Tools for taxes are OK because guilds can already impose taxes if they want, it's just a PITA to track who's paying. May as well give guilds that want taxes a way to easily manage them and the rest of us who don't want to be taxed can form our own guilds that don't charge them.
What I don't like is buffs that people get based on guild levels and guild achievements. Just do away with the guild leveling all together. I don't mind tracking achievements and having a leaderboard; hell you can even have guilds gain renown in certain regions so that PCs can overhear NPCs talking about this guild or that guild's accomplishment. With that approach, you could keep the "leaderboard" hidden and just use these more subtle clues from NPCs to showcase guilds that are powerful and accomplishing a lot. I just don't like the idea that you are being pushed into a large, impersonal guild so you can get the best buffs.
Two of the more over-arching concepts here are whether guilds should be allowed to impose "taxes" and whether guilds should give benefits to members in the form of "buffs" or something comparable.
Note that "taxes" need not hurt the members - though they could hurt the game economy. Some games add e.g. one percent to every cash drop from a mob and give it to the guild - with the member getting exactly what he or she would if not in a guild.
In general I would prefer not having any "taxes". I use quotes because the word is incorrect - taxes refer to an imposition by a government. I far prefer a system where if members want to contribute to the guild they can. On an individual basis. Assuming the game gives the guild something to do with the money like create a guild house. This will be one form of supporting the guild and can, and will, be reflected by most guilds in deciding who should have various positions and honors in the guild. I see no need at all for game mechanics here.
Just as I want a game with grouping strongly encouraged but not required to be able to play the game - I would like some encouragement for people to join guilds (forced guilding has not been raised as an issue, fortunately). But a system that stops far short of the SWTOR system where the guild benefits were so huge that anyone without a guild was at a significant disadvantage at least while leveling. Something just maybe like a 1% increase in cash drops (see above) but going to the member not to the guild. Traditional guild buffs like increase in character movement speed or xp earned might not fit well in Pantheon though a 1% increase in run speed or xp earned might be more symbolic than meaningful.
Of all the potential guild mechanics what comes to my mind as important? A good guildfinder. Perhaps like EQ2 which is one of the best if not the best. A way to see all guilds that are recruiting, find out information about them such as size, time zones, age of players or whatever else a guild choses to provide, and contact the guild through the guildfinder with a message going to the mailbox of a guild officer or guild officers if they are not on-line at the time. Perhaps tied in with this the ability as in some games to send a guild invitation to someone off-line to be accepted when they log in. Or declined.
Can we move this to the guild section? You wouldn't believe the look of disgust on my face reading this. I prefer to pretend that this doesn't exist.
If I feel forced to do any of this crap for buffs or whatever, I'm out of Pantheon.
Furthermore, The Zimbardo experiment is an experiment which put college undergrads against each other as prisoners and guards. They all knew the situation was fake and yet such a toxic dynamic emerged from it, the experiment had to be ended early.
I'm sure plenty here want to tell me to relax, it's just a game.
Imagine how real this becomes when there's taxes, and the guilds require resumes, and attendance at specific times, and can punish you with bad titles or icons, or by taking your points you worked hard to earn, or of course, make you a "prisoner". Imagine when it is someone you know in real life punishing you.
Finally, if you have ever played a teamspeak game with someone who's voice was a tad squeeky, you know that just saying "Pantheon is 18+" isn't good enough. This reality could very well find itself to age of minority players who feel they need to do it, to be meta or play with the people they are most familiar with.
Even college undergrads can't properly handle these sorts of "Fake" dynamics.
"You're in our world now"
BeaverBiscuit said:Imagine how real this becomes when there's taxes, and the guilds require resumes, and attendance at specific times, and can punish you with bad titles or icons, or by taking your points you worked hard to earn, or of course, make you a "prisoner". Imagine when it is someone you know in real life punishing you.
Guilds can already do that. Where do you think DKP was invented? EQ. The truth is, hardcore guilds will always have strict entry requirements, strict requirements for monetary contributions, and strict requirements on attendance for guild events. For many players, that is what they are looking for. Not giving the guilds the tools to track those things will not mean that they don't exist. In reality, all these tools already exist using 3rd party platforms. There is nothing wrong with these tools existing in game. I imagine that if a guild has those hardcore requirements you won't be joining it regardless of if they are tracking using in-game tools or a 3rd party tool.
That's why I draw the distinction between giving GMs the management tools to manage their guild the way they see fit, and having large successful guilds give you permanent buffs which can push people to feel like they have to join a hardcore guild just to get the buffs they need to find groups.
FYI: Casual player here. I spent some time in a hardcore guild and had fun; but for me it became a job after a while. I won't be joining a guild that taxes or requires a resume or requires strict attendance. But I don't begrudge people who want that experience. It's not like it could be stopped anyway.
I'm all for tools that help foster community (within and between guilds)!
I personally believe that being in a guild and having allied guilds is the buff that you get from being in a guild (all the benefits that come from being in a guild). The bigger your guild the stronger that buff naturally is. The more allies your guild has the stronger that buff naturally is. Any artificial buff beyond that I'd be completely against.
An option to "tax" your members...I guess I'm not totally opposed to that. Options are fine, people will join a guild if they agree with the terms, or the guild leader will realize that people don't like the terms and change them, etc. This already happens anyway, as far as I'm concerned having a tool to help wouldn't hurt anything. I'd use that same argument for most any tool, whether I agree with it being used or not shouldn't matter. That part should be up to individual guilds probably.
I'd like to see multiple guild organization types and an option for voting. I expect some ability to choose a symbol and color scheme. Also, guild alliances / coalitions.
Without getting into the reasons for and efficacy of taxes IRL (and without detouring into famous psychological experiments), I will say that building automated tax collection into the game makes sense from a game design perspective. It would also make sense to allow automated collection of guild dues, should guilds prefer a more regressive tax structure. This allows players to choose and it keeps the process from being cumbersome.
It also helps balance the many advantages of being in a guild, so that players will feel less compelled to join one. It also helps differentiate guilds since players can choose between low/no tax guilds with no frills and more costly guilds which have large guild halls and other perks.
I really hope there arent systems put into Pantheon that compell people to join megaguilds just to get the perks. I'm talking about guild buffs and so on. This is the kind of thing that contributed to the decline of WoW. Guilds became impersonal. With hundreds or even thousands of members you were just an anonymous cog in the statistics meant only to increment the guild closer to the next power unlock. Remaining in small family and friends guilds put you at a disadvantage.
In an attempt to encourage people to colaborate, they actually compounded the problems of impersonal transient interactions.
OldTony said:PD: Taxes let humans leap from hunter-gatherers to modern societies, i dont realy feel taxes are something bad in real life but lets keep this about the game hehe, thaks for ur comment
Well, now you're encroaching on my area of professional expertise. All I'm going to say is, as our understanding of ancient history and pre-modern societies improves, this line of thinking is fastly becoming flawed and outdated.
To the topic.. just give us some simple organizational tools to manage ranks and guild assets (banks, etc.). That's all that's really necessary.
OldTony said:Feel free to add those things you've liked in other games or you always wanted and never seen
Ill start myself.
-Full control of Guild Ranks. (Back in wow i loved to have the "Prison" rank where the players couldnt even speak in guild chat)-Guild tax + voluntary tax. GM can set the first one, gm and permitted ranks can see the voluntary tax of guild members. Taxes based on raw money looted from mobs.
-Guild Bank + Guild Store. GM and permitted ranks can put items and set a price for them in the Guild Store, in money or guild points (DKP), also set a max number of items purchased per day/week (for example ranks "Soldier" or higher can buy a stack of potions for very low price once per week.
-Guild points System. Add x points to all party/raid members button (with a text box to explain IE "Attendance"), Add x points to X Member, or class, or rank. Substract X points to all mentioned before. Also a detailed log which can set to public or just access to certain ranks.
-Guild calendar, motto, class/rank motto.
-Visual rank icons (with options to choose from many icons or to enable/disable) So in events a GM can activate icons for GM and certain officers next to their names. Maybe some guilds want the rank icons to be activated all the time, visible just for guild members.
-Guild Alerts! 3 level of visual and sound intensity, from normal alert with a little ding to fire alarm with flashes. Options for ranks to use them for free or spending fuild points, options for user and global CD on alerts.
-War effort shop. A shop where GM or certain officer ranks can buy items that normally would require the guild to farm/craft for guild money. IE potions, some items, exclusive war effort items. This is not against the guilds farming coordination, a guild with a good bunch of farmers and crafters would save a lot of money but a guild that cannot do those effciently yet can always shortcut with money.
-Guild Vault (maybe inside the guild bank) where everybody in the guild (or certain ranks) can freely donate items and money. GM or office can move this items into the guild bank or recycle them into money. (all this processes can cut a % to add money sinks)
-Guild achievements/levels: Some can be just about numbers (Your guild has killed 10000 wolves) other can be big quests doable with some guild effort, maybe some steps doable by just 1 player, other for a group and other in a big raid. Members can see what guild quests are active.
-Guild Buffs! Obtainable due the completion of guild achievements/quests, while active all guild members will obtain the buffs. GM or officers can change the active buff with a big CD. Really difficult buffs to obtain can be powerful or a guild may have even 2 or 3 buffs activated because they achieved really epic achievements/levels
-Guild colors, symbols, crests, etc... Also obtainable through achievents/quests (some basic for every guild) This will be shown in a tabard, cloaks, capes, tunics, shileds, banners... at player discrection. Can also be configured to be diferent in size, colors, crests, for each Rank. Maybe some ranks can plant temporary banners (just for showoff) or spray the guild colors and crest
... for sure i will come up with more ideas, ill post them as a reply, please feel free to add yours.
This nonsense is EXACTLY why I don't join guilds. It's all about the politics, profiting from the members, and giving "power" to the "higher ups".
I Hope the most of you are enjoying your hippie inquisitorial non constructive criticism.
Taxes are the devil even when guilds can not activate them
DKP must be manually counted by the guild and not have a system
Guild level or perks are the destruction of MMO
Guild politics and ranks make you sad and quit from Pantheon
Please go on, the party just started...
OldTony said: I Hope the most of you are enjoying your hippie inquisitorial non constructive criticism.
Are you new to posting on internet forums?? I've never been on one where posting an opinion didn't get some responses from those who disagreed with me.
You could post in favor of peace, love and understanding and get some negative responses.
By my count, you have clearly gotten more positive responses than negative. There might be some theads on these forums that do better, but there are many more that do worse. Take the win.
OldTony said:I Hope the most of you are enjoying your hippie inquisitorial non constructive criticism.
Taxes are the devil even when guilds can not activate themDKP must be manually counted by the guild and not have a system
Guild level or perks are the destruction of MMO
Guild politics and ranks make you sad and quit from Pantheon
Please go on, the party just started...
First of all, get over yourself.
Second, VR doesn't have the obligation to account for every possible manner in which guilds might want to organize themselves. Should they also modify the loot system for guilds that would prefer to use Loot Council over DKP? Should they automate loot distribution for guilds that want to use Onslaught/DFT/Loot lists? What about integration of GDKP functionality for people that prefer PUGs? VR adding support for any of these systems at all can be seen as an official endorsement for how VR wants players to run their guilds. The best, and most correct, option is for VR to do nothing other than what is absolutely necessary for the basic function of guilds. Let the players decide how they want to organize and manage their guilds, as we have been for 20+ years already.
"I Hope the most of you are enjoying your hippie inquisitorial non constructive criticism."
I assume you are unfamiliar with development forums and with these in particular. The point of the forums is to give - and receive - opinions on various possibilities for game design. Being negative towards other people is discouraged and unhelpful although disagreeing with other people's opinions is not.
OldTony said:I Hope the most of you are enjoying your hippie inquisitorial non constructive criticism....
I totally misunderstood this (or read it wrong) "Feel free to add those things you've liked in other games or you always wanted and never seen"
I thought you wanted the contribution of people who had ideas of things they wanted and ideas of things people wanted excluded, now that I'm re-reading it I realize my mistake.
OldTony said:I Hope the most of you are enjoying your hippie inquisitorial non constructive criticism.
Taxes are the devil even when guilds can not activate themDKP must be manually counted by the guild and not have a system
Guild level or perks are the destruction of MMO
Guild politics and ranks make you sad and quit from Pantheon
Please go on, the party just started...
How is citing an actual study not constructive? Do you have a study which shows that making guilds more like governments/businesses doesn't make people sad?
Or are you just going to state your opinion, as the future guild leader of Los Tercios, as fact, and then call that the only constructive point of view because your playstyle is the only constructive play style?