Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Community Debate - What is more important to you

    • 2138 posts
    January 19, 2022 4:40 PM PST

    In this setting, I think adventure includes fear of combat. If there were no combat, would it be an adventure? So does that make combat more important than adventure? or adventure inclusive of combat. 

    I think going out, knowing the areas travelling through are frought with peril and new things is by definition an adventure. In this venue I think Jump-scares are ok, since you could absent mindedly run into something you shouldn't, or not know something is there that you haven't learned to be wary of, yet. There is heightened anticipation of combat when you intentionally head into a dungeon for the purpose of a quest or adventure

    Combat, you can find anywhere. Adventure, you have to seek.

    • 690 posts
    January 19, 2022 6:18 PM PST

    Combat

    I could go outside and find both combat and adventure, but going outside for adventure seems a lot more fun and safe.

    • 150 posts
    January 19, 2022 6:27 PM PST

    Manouk said:In this setting, I think adventure includes fear of combat. If there were no combat, would it be an adventure? So does that make combat more important than adventure? or adventure inclusive of combat.


    Agreed. A few virtual examples do come to mind, but none that fall in the MMORPG category.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myst

    "Apart from its predominantly nonverbal storytelling,[3] Myst's gameplay is unusual among adventuring computer games in several ways. The player is provided with very little backstory at the beginning of the game, and no obvious goals or objectives are laid out. This means that players must simply begin to explore. There are no obvious enemies, no physical violence, no time limit to complete the game, and no threat of dying at any point.[2] The game unfolds at its own pace and is solved through a combination of patience, observation, and logical thinking.[3]"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pokemon_Snap

    • 2091 posts
    January 19, 2022 8:30 PM PST

    Leevolen said:

    Manouk said: In this setting, I think adventure includes fear of combat. If there were no combat, would it be an adventure? So does that make combat more important than adventure? or adventure inclusive of combat.


    Agreed. A few virtual examples do come to mind, but none that fall in the MMORPG category.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myst

    "Apart from its predominantly nonverbal storytelling,[3] Myst's gameplay is unusual among adventuring computer games in several ways. The player is provided with very little backstory at the beginning of the game, and no obvious goals or objectives are laid out. This means that players must simply begin to explore. There are no obvious enemies, no physical violence, no time limit to complete the game, and no threat of dying at any point.[2] The game unfolds at its own pace and is solved through a combination of patience, observation, and logical thinking.[3]

    It's interesting that you bring up Myst in this context. I loved the original Myst and played it fanatically for about a month until I beat it. I remember specifically that in the beginning, it took me a fair while to stop being nervous that something dangerous might be around the next corner or inside the next door I opened :)

    While I agree with the common definition that 'Adventure' typically includes danger or some risk, I certainly felt that I had been on an adventure when it was over.

    • 220 posts
    January 27, 2022 2:25 PM PST

    i would say combat only because I've been following Pantheon for quite some time now and am excited to experience their accumulation, npc having disposition, limited skill bar, and enviromental threat. 

    Also adding points to status from leveling up!

     

    • 1288 posts
    January 27, 2022 2:48 PM PST

    Will it really feel adventurous if there is no combat?  Will combat be any fun if there is no adventure?  I guess I'm gonna go with 50/50.  ... unless VR finds another source of danger other than combat that makes adventuring without combat 'adventurous' :)     Exploring in the depths of an ocean could feel quite adventurous if there is real danger to be there, or up high in some mountain range, ... or rock climbing.  I guess for me the key to adventure is that it has to have some element of danger; in an MMO the most common form of danger is the chance of death.  If there was a way to add a few other elements of danger then maybe combat would not need to be the main focus all the time.

     

    • 219 posts
    January 27, 2022 10:52 PM PST

    Adventure.  While combat can be fun, no one's ever going to find better combat in an MMO than in a single-player RPG, action-RPG, or fighting game.  But what those things (other than the RPGs) lack is the sense of adventure, and even the single player ones lack that in a persistent world.

    Interesting combat, combat where you can perform team attacks (think Chrono Trigger Dual-Techs with party members or Star Ocean 2 where the team attack activates if the second character activates their ability within that window of the first player doing theirs - why more MMO's don't do this, I don't know, since TEAM is kind of the name of the game in MMO) and having some nuanced combat systems and such are fine.  Great, even.

    But I tend not to play MMOs for the combat.  I love the exploration, dungeon diving, meeting people to see the world with, etc: The adventure.

    • 219 posts
    January 27, 2022 10:59 PM PST

    Jothany said:

    Leevolen said:

    Manouk said: In this setting, I think adventure includes fear of combat. If there were no combat, would it be an adventure? So does that make combat more important than adventure? or adventure inclusive of combat.


    Agreed. A few virtual examples do come to mind, but none that fall in the MMORPG category.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myst

    "Apart from its predominantly nonverbal storytelling,[3] Myst's gameplay is unusual among adventuring computer games in several ways. The player is provided with very little backstory at the beginning of the game, and no obvious goals or objectives are laid out. This means that players must simply begin to explore. There are no obvious enemies, no physical violence, no time limit to complete the game, and no threat of dying at any point.[2] The game unfolds at its own pace and is solved through a combination of patience, observation, and logical thinking.[3]

    It's interesting that you bring up Myst in this context. I loved the original Myst and played it fanatically for about a month until I beat it. I remember specifically that in the beginning, it took me a fair while to stop being nervous that something dangerous might be around the next corner or inside the next door I opened :)

    While I agree with the common definition that 'Adventure' typically includes danger or some risk, I certainly felt that I had been on an adventure when it was over.



    One thing I always loved about Myst was it had an ever-present FEEL of danger even though you were 100% alone in that world.  Of all the Ages you go to, the only three people you interact with are all trapped in books and can't hurt you unless you go to free either of the brothers.  Yet as a kid playing that game, I always felt oddly on edge.  To this day, I can't quite say why.

    I also feel that a lot of game devs uunderestimate the ability of tension in NOTHING HAPPENING.

    I remember playing X-Wing back in the 90s and how, if you got a "routine patrol mission in a quiet sector where nothing happens", during your patrol, OBVIOUSLY a bunch of stuff would happen.  I remember thinking "What if, just one mission, there was a completely quiet patrol where we could scan and fly around friendly ships then everyone hyperdirved out of the system and nothing happened?  Wouldn't that be more intense than always knowing there's going to be combat?"

    I think the actionn-horror genre is a BIT better at this, though they often don't get it that great, either, since they always feel the need to throw a bunch of zombies or whatever at you for jumpscares rather than have places that SEEM like an enemy could be anywhere...but don't have one.  FFXV (in the original chapter 11 or whatever that chapter was where Noctis is unarmed) did a fairly good job of this as well, though there were some patroling enemies - those axe zombie dudes - of course.

    I've just long thought that people don't seem to understand having areas without enemies that AREN'T spelled out as "safe", but have the implication that there could be enemies can actually be far more tense than having constant waves of enemies.  I think the original Half-Life actually did do this in a few places here and there, but it's a pretty rare thing for game devs.  The original Dead Space might have done it in a few places, too.

    Granted, that's more suited to horror-thriller stuff like Resident Evil, but you get my point:

    You can have adventure, tension, even dread with absolutely no combat at all.

    • 413 posts
    January 28, 2022 6:31 AM PST

    There is no combat without story, as you would not have a purpose or a motivation.  You are always pitted against something, good vs. evil   human vs. insects or monsters, zombies, etc.  

    If it was not the premise of adventure in World that provides the props, there would be no motivation for combat.  So, it's both Adverture first followed by combat, otherwise games would have not evovled past Pong.


    This post was edited by Zevlin at January 28, 2022 6:32 AM PST
    • 80 posts
    January 28, 2022 10:24 PM PST

    Adventure. I have always had a deep love for the realm itself, since I picked up my first book in 7th grade. Played all sorts of fantasy-genre games just to see the world. Combat there's no shortage of, of this I am certain. Don't look for it, it will come to you. 

    • 5 posts
    January 28, 2022 10:50 PM PST

    Neither really, I'm usually playing a game for what it's weighted towards. For Pantheon, combat is a part of the overall adventure the way I see it. I'll be smashing rocks, trees, and lore in equal measure as well as beasties. In games like Vermintide 2 however, I feel like the adventure aspects helps to add to the predominant combat.

    • 112 posts
    January 29, 2022 9:33 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - What is more important to you, combat or adventure and why? #MMORPG #CommunityMatters

     

    Adventure.... its like a reading a good book it draws you in and you want to find out what happens next...mmmm Immersion!

    • 119 posts
    January 30, 2022 3:11 PM PST

    Combat

     

    You can always patch in a better story, but a bork the main system in the game and all is lost.

    • 46 posts
    January 30, 2022 4:17 PM PST

    A story that matters and makes sense, that includes adventure and combat intertwined inside the lore of the game. Becoming part of the world and helping NPC's with meaningful tasks that give you a sense of  accomplishment. Especially when people group together to accomplish the same goals and objectives. Felling that sense of accomplishment when a piece of gear drops, or being able to finish that quest that took a while.

    • 63 posts
    January 30, 2022 9:19 PM PST

    Looking back on my most beloved in-game moments from MMOs past... adventuring! Combat is important, but a game that is just "combat" is Call of Duty. The adventure is what sets MMOs apart and brings the RPG into MMORPG. I go out into the world to adventure! I get loot and prestige on the world from adventures I complete. Combat is a necessary part of adventure to defeat the great evils in the world and gain the great loots, but it is the adventure that brings me there and the adventure that I remember. Looking at The Hobbit book, combat sealed an exiting adventure and yielded the great Mithril armor and Elvish weapons and gold and rubies, but the adventure was what was written down and remembered and the whole reason for leaving the shire in the first place.