No to both questions.
I'm certainly amazed by the effort some people put into succeeding at difficult and rare feats. But that does not influence how I look at them, I much more look at how the act in the game. If they're friendly, knowledgeable and helpful that will be much more reason for me to hold them in high regard :)
Not really, because most achievements are based on time sinking. Neglecting real life for sake of a virtual world record, is not really an achievment. It is notable , but if your real life health and relationships suffer for the sake of a virtual achievement, then you just failing in other ways.
I am more old school. I love the dynamic shared experience of group play, but without ego trips. Are you fun to play with? are you helpful? Do I have a good time playing with you? these are the more important things to me.
I have never done a world first that I know of, but I have come close and did get a server first.
In EQ when 'Omens of War' expansion came out they introduced upgrades to the Epic weapons which were long complicated quests for each class. There were 2 levels of upgrades often referred to as Epic 1.5 and then Epic 2.0. There was a huge effort for all the classes to figure out these quest lines and earn the upgrades.
My main was a Monk and so was working hard to figure out what was needed to get the first Epic 1.5 upgrade. We had much collaboration amongst the top end monks across all the servers and I was right on the edge of it being the first to complete some of the steps. Eventually when somebody discovered the final step and it was mentioned in the cross-server chat we were using, there was a rush for us to complete it. 20 minutes later I had the Epic 1.5 upgrade in my hands. I was world 4th I think but server first on my server.
About an hour after we finished that final step one of my friends in the Top guild on my server messaged me and said they were on their way to complete the Monk Epic 1.5 and told me he would give me the details when they were done. When I told him I had it already and linked it to him I suddenly got spammed by 4 or 5 monks in their guild asking me if I was serious that I had finished it already. I had to go run out to their raid so they could inspect me. I admit I was probably way too swelled head at that moment as all the Top geared monks on the server were drooling all over me with their Envy that I beat them to it.
Of course when you become server first for something like this you end up getting messages all the time by other players asking for advice on how to finish the quest. So I spent a lot of the next few weeks chatting with various Monks on my server giving them guidance on how to finish the quest. Of course that was so long ago, I don't even remember a thing about the quest anymore lol.
Ironically I never did finish the Epic 2.0 version because I ended up moving over to World of Warcraft and have never subscribed to EQ since those days. I've logged in a few times after it went Free to play but I haven't really played. Just wanted to see what things were like now days. I did play a bunch on p99 blue (played Bard there) but quit playing when green came out and they disabled the secondary hotbar on blue trying to be more 'true to retro EQ'. Oh well.
Kilsin said:Tavern Talk - Have you ever set a world-first record in an MMORPG? Do you hold people in high regard that do set them? #MMORPG#CommunityMatters
No and No. I don't have a desire to be first, being out front like that, but I do have a strong desire to be near that front edge of content.
I find personal first more important than world firsts. So long as I, and by extension my guild, defeats the content or completes the quests or makes something and does theses things without consulting spoiler/wiki sights, how is my/our accomplishment any different than someone who did it before us? We both did it without any outside assistance or knowledge.
Caine said:Not really, because most achievements are based on time sinking.
Most achievements often boil down to preparation and/or ingenuity (i.e. "clever use of game mechanics"). If it was only time-sinking, then a player of average skill with more free time could ostensibly beat out a player of high skill/ingenuity with little or no free time, and that almost never happens. It is almost always the opposite, that players of average/low skill take longer, and have more time invested to complete even normal achievements.
At least that was my experience for several years in a high end (World top 50/NA top 10) WoW raiding guild. Our guild collectively had far less total time invested in killing raid bosses and completing achievements than the other guilds on our server that weren't able to compete at that level.
eunichron said:Caine said:Not really, because most achievements are based on time sinking.
Most achievements often boil down to preparation and/or ingenuity (i.e. "clever use of game mechanics"). If it was only time-sinking, then a player of average skill with more free time could ostensibly beat out a player of high skill/ingenuity with little or no free time, and that almost never happens. It is almost always the opposite, that players of average/low skill take longer, and have more time invested to complete even normal achievements.
At least that was my experience for several years in a high end (World top 50/NA top 10) WoW raiding guild. Our guild collectively had far less total time invested in killing raid bosses and completing achievements than the other guilds on our server that weren't able to compete at that level.
Awesome thanks for the insite. ingenuity works for me, you have a point,
Not really, and the couple that were, were those little markers in EQ2 dungeons that just displyed your name for like a day.
Otherwise, I think people who play that kind of "game" and I are interested in much different things. I'd rather be known for the things I know and the value I add to a guild, mastery of my class, and being fun to play with.
Our world - both virtual & real life - focuses way too much on encouraging people to compete against each other, where only one wins and all others lose. And focuses way too little on encouraging people to work together, where everyone wins together or loses together.
I'm fine with Pantheon keeping track of such things for those who want to keep track of such stuff. But I hope that VR doesn't spend very much time/effort in creating ingame sytems that publicly announce such info. I'm sure there will be external sites that track it all.
Like others in the thread, I'd be much more interested in knowing who helps the most strangers, recovers the most corpses or gives away the most gear for people not in their guild.
I have had server firsts. Some of them I wasn't aware of until someone else pointed it out. I do not hold world firsts in high regard. If I'm honest, I tend to look down on games and players who think they have value. Unnecessary. Unwanted.
philo said:I have had server firsts. Some of them I wasn't aware of until someone else pointed it out. I do not hold world firsts in high regard. If I'm honest, I tend to look down on games and players who think they have value. Unnecessary. Unwanted.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and they can express it however they want it. Same goes for someone who likes to achieve world's first achievement and those who prefer take it more casual and just go along at their own pace.
I personally give those pushing hard a grand of applause because they took the necessary time to plan and make sure they fought for something they highly feel proud about.
Kilsin said:Tavern Talk - Have you ever set a world-first record in an MMORPG? Do you hold people in high regard that do set them? #MMORPG#CommunityMatters
In EQ2 I was the world first "Troll Ranger". First, because I was the ONLY one for a long time. Troll Ranger was alot of fun actually. My guild in Everquest TLP recently was server first alot of times. I do hold a level of respect / regard for people who achieve these. Especially in new raids where some of the mechanics can be very difficult to figure out. But it's not something that I stive for. If my guild is pushing really hard to do something, it does motivate me to push hard to achieve a common goal but aside from that, I just enjoy tackling the content and experiencing all of it that I can more than being first to do it.
I did, but it impressed me so much that I cannot even remember what it was and nope I do not hold firsts in high regard.
It doesn't interest me who is first. (As I siad in a previous post) It seems to me that most firsts are completed by groups dedicated to the task and dont care much about the game itself or indeed, other players, often exploiting situations.
For those that get a first while playing the game the way it is meant to be played; well done. But well done to everyone else who also completes that task afterwards too. Completing a difficult task deserves some regard, but first or not, it makes no difference (before any nerfs, anyway!).
I have not set records, but I admit to motivated curiosity and boldness when I see someone who has- it must be cool to be the first. I like to hear stories about troubles or shortcuts they might have had.
I am also a fan about small tricks and combinations of disparate things. Like who was clever enough to discover clicking this, combined with that buff makes this spell do more than intended or have an added benefit. Like using lame, at face value, M:tG cards to unexpected powerful effect
Jothany said:Our world - both virtual & real life - focuses way too much on encouraging people to compete against each other, where only one wins and all others lose. And focuses way too little on encouraging people to work together, where everyone wins together or loses together.
I'm fine with Pantheon keeping track of such things for those who want to keep track of such stuff. But I hope that VR doesn't spend very much time/effort in creating ingame sytems that publicly announce such info. I'm sure there will be external sites that track it all.
Like others in the thread, I'd be much more interested in knowing who helps the most strangers, recovers the most corpses or gives away the most gear for people not in their guild.
This
And to expand: The stimulus one feels is the hit of brain drug/hormone the denizens are chasing. To feel like one matters and to be recognized as a valuable entity. This can be accomplished with any listing.
If VR were to pick arbitrary items to track, and they kept this secret, it would allow an easy stimulus for engagement while eliminating the chase instincts of the players. Imagine a list starts one day after launch. It reports stats in a best/worst framework designed as frivolous. It could state that player X has made and given away 22 red feathered caps within the first 6 months of game time. That accomplishment is now permanent. That player has bragging rights forever and will be buried in kisses and coin. I love to hear about little things like this, but if I hear about player Y who was the first to get some legendary sword I , I just don't care.
Also if the play profile include data as to the number of players grouped with I'd love that too.
I scan you and find that you have 1000 hour in-game and have grouped with only 10 players I'll assume you live in a bubble. You've grouped with 300 players! Awesome! That's info I could use.
Jothany said:Our world - both virtual & real life - focuses way too much on encouraging people to compete against each other, where only one wins and all others lose. And focuses way too little on encouraging people to work together, where everyone wins together or loses together.
I'm fine with Pantheon keeping track of such things for those who want to keep track of such stuff. But I hope that VR doesn't spend very much time/effort in creating ingame sytems that publicly announce such info. I'm sure there will be external sites that track it all.
Like others in the thread, I'd be much more interested in knowing who helps the most strangers, recovers the most corpses or gives away the most gear for people not in their guild.
Unfortunately, we don't have many people that are willing to do things together and treat everyone equally. I feel that probably one of hugest things we lack in today's society and in our family values. So, I totally agree with your statement. I know for one, that legacy I grew up with in EverQuest is no longer seen in today's games. I ain't gonna lie... I miss it.
I personally like competing on parses for most damage and be able to joke around to people as a way of encouraging them to try to do better. Does the concept behind trying to be better at something for the fun, wrong? I mean, yes. Realistically it accomplishes nothing and I probably have certain fantasies of competing to get better and have a sense of accomplishment. But, wouldn't the accomplishment feeling be the same as when you purchase a house or get a nice car? I mean, I know if I had a car right now I'd be doing wheelies lol... in all seriousness though... even I agree with seeming or portraying a bit of egoistic attitude that is in sure evil but I'm sure joking about is is okay, right?
BigBadAzz1 said:I personally like competing on parses for most damage and be able to joke around to people as a way of encouraging them to try to do better. Does the concept behind trying to be better at something for the fun, wrong? I mean, yes. Realistically it accomplishes nothing and I probably have certain fantasies of competing to get better and have a sense of accomplishment. But, wouldn't the accomplishment feeling be the same as when you purchase a house or get a nice car? I mean, I know if I had a car right now I'd be doing wheelies lol... in all seriousness though... even I agree with seeming or portraying a bit of egoistic attitude that is in sure evil but I'm sure joking about is is okay, right?
I don't think there's anything at all wrong with friendly competition. Lots of good has come from it over time.
An important part of MY definition of 'friendly' is that all of the competitors know they are in a competition & agree to be in it. So, people who want to compare their stats in a database with lots of other players to see where they stand is fine with me. I just don't want to have all the records of all my characters in it. As long as one opts in, I'm cool.
Never gotten a world first, server first, etc. Never come anywhere close, to be honest. That has never been my thing in MMOs.
On the Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology, I am 93% Explorer, and Achiever comes in at 47% and tied with Socializing. Seeing/doing/trying new things, that's the jam.
Jothany said:BigBadAzz1 said:I personally like competing on parses for most damage and be able to joke around to people as a way of encouraging them to try to do better. Does the concept behind trying to be better at something for the fun, wrong? I mean, yes. Realistically it accomplishes nothing and I probably have certain fantasies of competing to get better and have a sense of accomplishment. But, wouldn't the accomplishment feeling be the same as when you purchase a house or get a nice car? I mean, I know if I had a car right now I'd be doing wheelies lol... in all seriousness though... even I agree with seeming or portraying a bit of egoistic attitude that is in sure evil but I'm sure joking about is is okay, right?
I don't think there's anything at all wrong with friendly competition. Lots of good has come from it over time.
An important part of MY definition of 'friendly' is that all of the competitors know they are in a competition & agree to be in it. So, people who want to compare their stats in a database with lots of other players to see where they stand is fine with me. I just don't want to have all the records of all my characters in it. As long as one opts in, I'm cool.
Right, I understand.