Gintoki88 said:Ruinar said:What if the darkest night was rare, as suggested by Stonefish, but the darkest part of that night only lasted for 2 hours (in game, not RL) in the middle most part of the night. If you choose to adventure through it, there will be rewards commensurate with the risk, otherwise you circle the wagons and just try and survive. As long as it is rare enough that it doesn't become a turnoff or tedious for people who don't like that sort of thing I think it could be a lot of fun for people that do.
I thought you placed the wagons in a square?
That is if you're playing Minecraft.
So.
A darkness value of 5 for normal nights.
33% of those are brighter with two full moons, value 9
And every 70 cycles we get a pitch black night of value 1 or 2.
Allows for some surprise elements because we will occasionally lose track of what night is coming up. The dark night can have mobs that do not drop any special gear but grant extra XP.
The full moon night's can grand a bonus to rangers because that is the best class and all the others are just filler to flesh out the world. ;)
Devs need to go play Arizona Sunshine. It is a VR game (the other VR) where you have dark caves, zombies, and a flash light for one of the levels. I want to be afraid of the dark in Pantheon.
So many people are posting these hardline anti darkness stances and dislikes. OP even is saying only 1/70 only, but I want every night to have proper darkness. The world should be "too dark" quite often. Allow players to effectively shine flash lights as they try to defend themselves or hunt is amazing. I want the darkness to have specs of light from people off in the distance carrying torches as they travel through the night. Magical lights illuminating some groups. Guards patrolling the roads with torches and lanterns. A camp fire illuminating the guard in a bandit camp. Good audio cues to hear movement off to the side before a nighttime predator pounces.
I would push for Pantheon to not have dark vision. Magic light sources are great, magic removing the need for light sources is pointless. If you are going to have easy dark vision then just get rid of player lights and work on anything else that needs doing. Fingers crossed VR blocks tab targeting when creatures are in darkness, no easy work arounds!
Imagine if VR built an entire inventory system. Weights, bag sizes, etc. Then VR also created a common magic bag that has 100% weight reduction for everything you could easily obtain. Why go through the trouble of making player lighting and putting light sources around everywhere in the world, if you are going to remove the reason for lights to exist?
Jobeson said:Devs need to go play Arizona Sunshine. It is a VR game (the other VR) where you have dark caves, zombies, and a flash light for one of the levels. I want to be afraid of the dark in Pantheon.
I played that, and I know the electric goosebumps feeling of the first walk into the mine. It was fantastic. But I also can't support a frequent dark evening. I can foresee plenty of frequent dark dungeons, where you are sure to want a light source. I just feel a very infrequent dark open sky with just the stars or even with low clouds and/or fog would be a treat.
I agree with the idea that a truly black night will cause players to exit en-mass. BUT, that said, we have seen Halnir cave in streams and that looked awesome. Also remember there are torches, and candles and probably other light sources available, so true darkness might not really be a thing. Remember you'll most likely be in a group. The need to carry a torch instead of a shield is a wonderful trade off to figure out. There also should be infra vision, ultra vision in game (I hope). But those should mean an improvement, not perfect vision. I REALLY want to drop torches on the ground to light a path. It's what I would do irl. I also want some class to be able to send ahead a small light source. That would be cool.
StoneFish said:I can foresee plenty of frequent dark dungeons, where you are sure to want a light source. I just feel a very infrequent dark open sky with just the stars or even with low clouds and/or fog would be a treat.
I truly hope they use darkness in the dungeons as well, but there needs to be a night in the night cycle. Common MMO trope is to only have have Dawn, Dusk, Day lighting. Everyone can simply see just fine in the dark. It is easy to do if they wanted to give Pantheon a massive multiple moons or whatever to light up the sky, it simply takes away from the fun.
MMOs are so much more fun when you have to solve problems, eliminating darkness means no one has a problem. Travel together so only a few people need to carry lights and the others can play optimally.
Jothany said:Ranger Ability Flare
"Flare: Launch a burning arrow that sticks into the ground at target location, acting as a torch for a short time."
This is only the start if VR wants to make the dark a problem players can have dozens of solutions for. There are so many cool ideas to light things up. Players could set up, camps, torches, lanters, bonfires, etc. Classes can have all sorts of magical/ability solutions as well.
That is only for the players. Guard patrols, settlements, magical light spells to have safe areas lit up at night improves the game. You could even have the entire road be a relative safe area at night. Don't stray too far from the road! None of these ideas make much sense though if darkvision exists. Darkness allows the devs to add to the setting beyond simply having different spawns.
If you have torches for dungeons and the like, then those torches should also be useful in outdoor areas when appropriate. Cycled darkness should be (imo) tied to the cycle of the moon, dark on new moons, lighter on full moons. VR have already stated that the day/night populations will be different, why not go one step further and the really dark loving entities only comming out on the darkest of nights. I think weather should also come into play with darkness. If it is a cloudy night, then the darkness should also be deepened - a full moon should not be as bright, a new moon with clouds should be darkest of all. If it is a rainy night, then torches dont reach as far in the dark, or light sources become washed out on misty nights.
Anything that enhances the feel of a living world works for me. Weather, moon cycles, I would love to see it all.
Galden: Every single game / zone with impared vision in any game ever is always the least liked.
Bold statement, and your proof is where? Just because you dont like the idea doesn't mean it is a general dislike. And even if it is true, the concept is good, maybe the implementation is incorrect.
Adding visual imparements in an MMO does not decrease game pleasure. It makes it harder, true, but that is the point. Making it difficult to work your way through a deadly zone is much more preferable to running full speed and avoiding mob engagement radius because you can see 10 times the distance of mobs. It is much more intense to me to have such difficulties to overcome. The point is that you have skills and equipment to negate the detrimental aspects, making for a more rounded and atmospheric experience.
If Pantheon was going to be a single player MMO where you slaughter your way to max level solo, darkness is more annoying. This however is supposed to be a group MMO. Groups of players coming together with different utilities, spells, etc is always a wonderful thing. The darkness would only add to pushing people to group.
The least liked features often leads to the most fun in MMOs.
Punishing deaths are hated, needing to travel is hated, needing to figure out where you are is hated, needing to group is hated, high xp requirement is hated, needing to replace armor for a resist sets are hated, needing to replace the off hand for a lantern at night? Well that is clearly different and has no upside :D
If there is a dungeon so dark it requires light sources to be used by the players and then, unexpectedly, a force comes along and extinguishes the lights, plunging the group into chaos, I would be thrilled and tell the tale with great enthusiasm. I'd also look to find a counter to the effect or a solution to the trouble.
StoneFish said:If there is a dungeon so dark it requires light sources to be used by the players and then, unexpectedly, a force comes along and extinguishes the lights, plunging the group into chaos, I would be thrilled and tell the tale with great enthusiasm. I'd also look to find a counter to the effect or a solution to the trouble.
I love when the random group just lucks into the answer.
Only the open flames went out so we had to rely on the casters. (or the opposite)
Everyones light went out except for the paladins radiant shield, perhaps clerical light would work as well?
We wouldn't have seen anything if not for the light given off of the fire elemental, but it was too late to make use of it.
I don't get the hatred of playing in a world that needs lights.
Jobeson said:StoneFish said:If there is a dungeon so dark it requires light sources to be used by the players and then, unexpectedly, a force comes along and extinguishes the lights, plunging the group into chaos, I would be thrilled and tell the tale with great enthusiasm. I'd also look to find a counter to the effect or a solution to the trouble.
I love when the random group just lucks into the answer.
Only the open flames went out so we had to rely on the casters. (or the opposite)
Everyones light went out except for the paladins radiant shield, perhaps clerical light would work as well?
We wouldn't have seen anything if not for the light given off of the fire elemental, but it was too late to make use of it.
I don't get the hatred of playing in a world that needs lights.
Would that qualify as "Player vs. Enviroment"?
chenzeme said:If you have torches for dungeons and the like, then those torches should also be useful in outdoor areas when appropriate. Cycled darkness should be (imo) tied to the cycle of the moon, dark on new moons, lighter on full moons. VR have already stated that the day/night populations will be different, why not go one step further and the really dark loving entities only comming out on the darkest of nights. I think weather should also come into play with darkness. If it is a cloudy night, then the darkness should also be deepened - a full moon should not be as bright, a new moon with clouds should be darkest of all. If it is a rainy night, then torches dont reach as far in the dark, or light sources become washed out on misty nights.
Anything that enhances the feel of a living world works for me. Weather, moon cycles, I would love to see it all.
I'd like to see all of this as well.
It doesnt have to be on earths day night cycle but should adhere to its own cycle. But using earth as an example there are different moons and sometimes no moon. But maybe events or something of the like that cause total darkness or exceptionally bright lights in the sky variety is good!
I'd Like to know VR's approach on this topic. I remember being Human on EQ and being really terrified of entering dungeons or even in open field in a storm nighttime because it really was pitch black. I treasured my first Fire Beetle Eye like something really valuable. Id love to really have inconveniences in conditions of darkness, like a debuff, that makes desirable to employ a slot of your gear/bags to light the surroundings.
I'd also love to see every race have those inconveniences, IE Elven infravision helping to see living things but not showing undeads or structures like walls, pits, etc... also Dwarven underground vision the other way around, helping to see structures, but not revealing living creatures. This could also help in the inmersion and give a shine to sounds.
What do you guys think about this?
10
Random Moon phases would work. Pantheon have weather, we can add dark day where the outside world is misty, foggy, and dark purple or shade of light purple plus the field monster a bit stronger due to dark day cycle.
If you defeat said field monster then you get a small boost in exp than when you defeat them on regular days. Base exp gain 40 (+10). You will still see where you're going but it's just the grass is a bit dark green shade.
Cycle can be every 3 earth days or whatever you think it's appropriate for Pantheon lore .
OldTony said:I'd Like to know VR's approach on this topic. I remember being Human on EQ and being really terrified of entering dungeons or even in open field in a storm nighttime because it really was pitch black. I treasured my first Fire Beetle Eye like something really valuable. Id love to really have inconveniences in conditions of darkness, like a debuff, that makes desirable to employ a slot of your gear/bags to light the surroundings.
I'd also love to see every race have those inconveniences, IE Elven infravision helping to see living things but not showing undeads or structures like walls, pits, etc... also Dwarven underground vision the other way around, helping to see structures, but not revealing living creatures. This could also help in the inmersion and give a shine to sounds.
What do you guys think about this?
Sounds interesting. I agree that if you have periods of very dark areas then some races should have their 'natural' abilities like elves and dwarves are known to have. It can be be only slightly or moderately better than humans, but it should be there. That adds to the race fantasy like abilities add to class fantasy. We already know that there will be supernatural darkness which will give that effect.
Bring it on. That gives me more reason to love my favorite classes...the Paladin and Cleric. My initial race will still be human though. I like all of this because it plays into immersion. If done with care and balance then it will create some really memorable moments.
Being in Duskwood in WoW always had me on my toes and was compelling. I know it's not anywhere the same as the degree of darkness talked about here, but it goes to show that a night cycle does very much affect the ability of a game to create mood and tension. Transitioning from Westfall to Duskwood was always something I was mindful of. Having that be more intense in Pantheon is a riveting concept.
I don't have a number to give because I will be receptive to whatever VR decides to do with it.
I think I read somewhere where there was an idea Terminus had two moons (or was it two suns?), in either case, if there /was/ a "darkest" night, it would be the night where there is a double lunar eclipse - where one moon is waning (probably the closest one) the other is waxing (the furthest one). And upon this night, there would be a lunar festival where the summoning of demons and witches, and creatures of the deeper dark are awakened. Something like this would be really neat lore-wise.
OmegaBeam said:I think I read somewhere where there was an idea Terminus had two moons (or was it two suns?), in either case, if there /was/ a "darkest" night, it would be the night where there is a double lunar eclipse - where one moon is waning (probably the closest one) the other is waxing (the furthest one). And upon this night, there would be a lunar festival where the summoning of demons and witches, and creatures of the deeper dark are awakened. Something like this would be really neat lore-wise.
Exceptionally neat lore-wise. I wouldn't be surprised if this is already planned.
chenzeme said:Galden: Every single game / zone with impared vision in any game ever is always the least liked.
Bold statement, and your proof is where? Just because you dont like the idea doesn't mean it is a general dislike. And even if it is true, the concept is good, maybe the implementation is incorrect.
Adding visual imparements in an MMO does not decrease game pleasure. It makes it harder, true, but that is the point. Making it difficult to work your way through a deadly zone is much more preferable to running full speed and avoiding mob engagement radius because you can see 10 times the distance of mobs. It is much more intense to me to have such difficulties to overcome. The point is that you have skills and equipment to negate the detrimental aspects, making for a more rounded and atmospheric experience.
Yeah I've always enjoyed games that had true darkness and required light sources (*old* Tibia & Dragon's Dogma come to mind) to navigate throughout the night. It adds immersion and depth to the game. On the contrary to Galden, I actually seek out games that offer this type of gameplay. Personally, I will be disappointed if the day/night cycle is nothing more than a timer for certain quests, events, and NPCs to trigger.
Something i really like is the idea of sacrificing an important slot of your char, IE: accesory, offhand... might be meaningful.
Could be a pity to lose a shield or second sword but you really rather have a light source. It can also affect to your perception system, you may have a bonus to detect traps or hidden things if you actively wear a light source, also avoid penalties in your combat stats (which would be pretty crappy in the dark) and also the obvious advantage to see where you are, not falling into pits etc...
Back in EQ i found too easy and comfortable to just lose 1 bag slot for your greater lightstone which you would easily get at low levels. After having one you delete the darkness system from the game. Id like Pantheon to go further into the light and how to play with it