I promised I was done with this thread, but Aich made me laugh so I did a quick parse...
Over 300 posts, nearly 38 kwords and not a single mind changed.
We are not only an opinionated bunch, but apparently rather stubborn too.
The top three posters are:
Riahuf22 at 62 (8490 original words, quoted another 4598) - Pro Tagging
Zoltar at 30 (5308 original, 2290 quoted) - Pro Tagging
Stellarmind at 28 (2735 original, 1743 quoted) - just wants to kill people
[NOTE: not sure Stellar should count, we all know he just likes to stir the pot]
The pro-privacy crowd (full disclosure: I am one) seem less vocal, though we had a few post counts in the teens/low twenties.
Overall more are in favor of choice than force.
Riahuf22 said: Lol and? You guys only literally said you were against it and never offered anything other than I simply didn't want that system, but offered nothing that anyone else could have an opinion about, so while you voiced your opinion on how you didn't like it, you certainly didn't mention anything that could be used that could possibly be better, other than nothing at all.
I do not agree with you
those who were not in agreement with the system argued a lot of situations in which the system was bad
you did not argue the benefits of that system only criticized our legitimate arguments, thank you but we do not want to seek other guilds or judge our friends or face compromising situations that we can avoid
Another solution that was exposed in this thread to deal with bad guys that does not penalize good guys is that when you put a character in / ignore, automatically this account in ignore without you knowing the name of the account or the by alters
((We are not only an opinionated bunch, but apparently rather stubborn too.))
Many of us that aren't stubborn and opinionated have probably long-since stopped paying attention to the forums. Those actively posting are either fairly new here or willing to wait with great patience (stubbornness) for a game we have strong opinions in favor of.
Elki said:Riahuf22 said: Lol and? You guys only literally said you were against it and never offered anything other than I simply didn't want that system, but offered nothing that anyone else could have an opinion about, so while you voiced your opinion on how you didn't like it, you certainly didn't mention anything that could be used that could possibly be better, other than nothing at all.I do not agree with you
those who were not in agreement with the system argued a lot of situations in which the system was bad
you did not argue the benefits of that system only criticized our legitimate arguments, thank you but we do not want to seek other guilds or judge our friends or face compromising situations that we can avoidAnother solution that was exposed in this thread to deal with bad guys that does not penalize good guys is that when you put a character in / ignore, automatically this account in ignore without you knowing the name of the account or the by alters
But that idea wasn't even yours? So it goes right back to say that a ton of people went and bashed an idea but didn't give one of their own and again thank you for actually agreeing with me. And again if your so afraid of a simply tag than I guess you'd be afraid of anyone even knowing your main, I mean you can't name change him so hopefully your okay with that as well.
Riahuf22 said:Elki said:I do not agree with you
So it goes right back to say that a ton of people went and bashed an idea but didn't give one of their own and again thank you for actually agreeing with me
This is a disturbing pattern where you add your points to someone elses thoughts. I don't think it's productive.
Riahuf22 said: Lol and? You guys only literally said you were against it and never offered anything other than I simply didn't want that system, but offered nothing that anyone else could have an opinion about, so while you voiced your opinion on how you didn't like it, you certainly didn't mention anything that could be used that could possibly be better, other than nothing at all.
Um, what?
We've discussed how this harms the way we prefer to play.
We've given examples.
We've discussed ways in which the system can be used to harm innocent people.
We've embraced an addition to current mechanics to /ignoreaccount, solving many of the issues your new system means to address.
Saying we don't like the system that's been proposed does not include a requirement that we imagine a better solution. Personally my default position is going to be that more clutter of constraining systems isn't an improvement to MMO's. I firmly believe that quite often well-intentioned systems are more negative than positive, and often more harmful than beneficial. It's relatively easy to come up with a notion on how to make things better. It's far more difficult to forsee the downstream consequences, and the consequences very often are more painful than the issue the system was made to resolve to begin with.
I look at this in sort of the same way I look at Congress. Judging their effectiveness by how many laws they pass isnt actually a measure of the benefit they bring. Not when so many of the laws actually take freedoms and harm the people. Sometimes when they do absolutely nothing it's exactly what's best for the country.
The point of the forums is to discuss. I'll grant that a point to the forums is to imagine new things that might possibly be associated with Pantheon. It is not to come to a concensus. That'll never happen, and if it did this would be an abismally boring audience. And those ideas are not strictly limited to building new systems that manage the playerbase. As I've already said, restricting players, constraining players and herding players into predefined behaviors is pretty much the opposite of what I would consider to be advancing MMO's. Imagining and suggest entirely new vistas of freedom to choose, is.
Kumu said:I promised I was done with this thread, but Aich made me laugh so I did a quick parse...
Over 300 posts, nearly 38 kwords and not a single mind changed.
We are not only an opinionated bunch, but apparently rather stubborn too.The top three posters are:
Riahuf22 at 62 (8490 original words, quoted another 4598) - Pro Tagging
Zoltar at 30 (5308 original, 2290 quoted) - Pro Tagging
Stellarmind at 28 (2735 original, 1743 quoted) - just wants to kill people[NOTE: not sure Stellar should count, we all know he just likes to stir the pot]
The pro-privacy crowd (full disclosure: I am one) seem less vocal, though we had a few post counts in the teens/low twenties.
Overall more are in favor of choice than force.
Simple enough to state this is a solution in search of a problem. Creating regulations to control fringe issues is, to put it quite bluntly, stupid. The laws of unintended consequences will always rule for every single regulation/restriction enacted by VR. Furthermore, I feel this discussion is a tangent (maybe even an unexpected or undesired tangent) from the game tenets about player reputation. Let's face it, to even claim that a minority of players would use /anon et al for nefarious reasons is an overblown statement. It will occur but I feel it would be in the fraction of 1% range compared to those using it for non-nefarious reasons. I am a pro-privacy individual and I do not agree with much of any concept/subject that "forces" a player into interactions.
I keep in mind when I respond, what needs extra time to develop vs what is already out there.
What is already out there like using /ignore is a bit of programming that can be used or modified. Like the dropdown menu for state abbreviations you see on every website you order something from for your address. What is not already out there is things like what some people suggest could be done and those things that could be done take developer time and reseources that VR may not have.
So I think the rancur comes from that point of view, if its not already something that is out there but needs to be developed, the response will be a no! with no alternate solution provided because the alternate slolution also requires development support and resources. Which is why you see a -no!- followed by a suggestion to an existing mechanic that is already out there with a comment to apply the existing mechanic to resolve the same issue.
Manouk said:I keep in mind when I respond, what needs extra time to develop vs what is already out there.
What is already out there like using /ignore is a bit of programming that can be used or modified. Like the dropdown menu for state abbreviations you see on every website you order something from for your address. What is not already out there is things like what some people suggest could be done and those things that could be done take developer time and reseources that VR may not have.
So I think the rancur comes from that point of view, if its not already something that is out there but needs to be developed, the response will be a no! with no alternate solution provided because the alternate slolution also requires development support and resources. Which is why you see a -no!- followed by a suggestion to an existing mechanic that is already out there with a comment to apply the existing mechanic to resolve the same issue.
I Doubt very seriously if VR is Dragging and Dropping Code snippets.