So I remember EverQuest 1, MajorMUD, Diablo even early versions of Vanilla WoW all having extremeley (UNIQUE/RARE) loot; "Fungus Covered Scale Tunic", "Felstrike", etc.
My Definition of Unique: An item possessing a unique name, ability, attributes and appearance (this does not mean only 1 per server etc).
In a lot of games you will receive a [shortsword +1], then a [swortsword +2], then a [flaming swordsword +3] etc. While those are key for progression it would be nice to occasionally stumble upon the [Ratking Slasher] which could be equivelant to a [swordsword +x] but have a cool appearance and a unique passive ability that isn't game breaking, like +10% to critical hit chance vs Rats. etc
These types of items in my opinion always added extra value and incentive to exploring, grinding, replayability etc. It also created a sense of uniqueness between your peers. They don't all have to be godlike, but it would be nice to have something similar added to Pantheon.
I've always found unique items with unique powers fun to collect and use, and if done well can still be somewhat balanced. What do you think?
Yeah, boss mobs should have a common and rare drop.
But I always like the hidden "ultra rare" items that would drop from random mobs in a specific area. In Sebilis (EQ) there was a belt and cloak that was very rare but very powerful that was like a 1/6,000 chance to drop from a select group of random mobs. I thought that was cool.
to be honest, i think this is the bane of every good mmo.
It gives you the opportunity to set your own goals that do not involve epic quest lines. It gives a communal effort to get these items (for tha guild!), it gives you a reason other than xp to stay in a zone longer than you normally would without it. It stops content / zones from becomming trivial. Even though it may become easier to obtain over time as you gear up and gain additional spells, making it a grind, but the grind is part of the adventure.
So yes, totally in favor of the ultra rare items
decarsul said:to be honest, i think this is the bane of every good mmo.
It gives you the opportunity to set your own goals that do not involve epic quest lines. It gives a communal effort to get these items (for tha guild!), it gives you a reason other than xp to stay in a zone longer than you normally would without it. It stops content / zones from becomming trivial. Even though it may become easier to obtain over time as you gear up and gain additional spells, making it a grind, but the grind is part of the adventure.
So yes, totally in favor of the ultra rare items
At first I thought you were against it based on your first sentance, then I read the rest of it, still a bit hazy on your opinion, but yes it does add replayability, individual goals, slows incentive to race to the end etc, so thanks for agreeing i guess? :)
bigdogchris said:Yeah, boss mobs should have a common and rare drop.
But I always like the hidden "ultra rare" items that would drop from random mobs in a specific area. In Sebilis (EQ) there was a belt and cloak that was very rare but very powerful that was like a 1/6,000 chance to drop from a select group of random mobs. I thought that was cool.
Is it any indication of how much I played in Seb that I saw both of those drops? Twice?
Ghool said:bigdogchris said:Yeah, boss mobs should have a common and rare drop.
But I always like the hidden "ultra rare" items that would drop from random mobs in a specific area. In Sebilis (EQ) there was a belt and cloak that was very rare but very powerful that was like a 1/6,000 chance to drop from a select group of random mobs. I thought that was cool.
Is it any indication of how much I played in Seb that I saw both of those drops? Twice?
What it does show is that even low probabilities of a given event does not preclude anybody (or everyone) from beating the odds every single time. Over time, even the most rarely dropped item will eventually become common.
Pauloslesan said:I've always found unique items with unique powers fun to collect and use, and if done well can still be somewhat balanced. What do you think?
You do realize that you can't collect unique items if someone else already has it. How would you like it if, when you were looking for a game and saw a huge list of unique items you could collect only to then find out they were alll taken and there was nothing for you? And what if no other such things were ever introduced again? At least with low probability drop rates everyone who puts in enough effort has an equal chance as everyone else to obtain a desired item.
Vandraad said:You do realize that you can't collect unique items if someone else already has it. How would you like it if, when you were looking for a game and saw a huge list of unique items you could collect only to then find out they were alll taken and there was nothing for you? And what if no other such things were ever introduced again? At least with low probability drop rates everyone who puts in enough effort has an equal chance as everyone else to obtain a desired item.
It wouldn't bother me too much. I never had a problem with items in EQ that were removed from the drop tables like rubicite/guise/manastone/etc, though many of those could still be bought from players.
I like the idea of Unique items, BUT I do not like RNG based Unique items because once that loot is done, what is the point of farming whatever had the chance to drop it ?
My idea for Unique items would be a 2 part process. Creation of the item and purchasing of the item.
Creation could be done by the Devs on a set schedule, By the Gods when certain conditions are met, by a group of players with given skills and items or various other methods.
Once an item is created then it becomes purchaseable. This again could be accomplished in many ways and could depend on the item. Quest lines to earn Unique item points that could be spent to buy
unique items. Faith points to earn an item made by or owned by the gods, thief points from a thief guildmaster to earn an item. Insane amount of gold to buy an item or whatever else.
And have items take ALOT to get, nothing a solo player could do in a short amount of time. And have unique items that are not the end all be all of existance. Just because it is unique does not mean
it has to be the most powerful. Could be a unique color, fancy graphic, special name or whatever.
And just because it starts out as unique does not mean it has to stay unique. Perhaps a second unique item would allow you to make a recipe of a previous unique item allowing you to craft them then
it would be up to you if it remained unique, became super rare, or was flooded into commonness.
As long as THE ONE RING will be mine.. ;)
Joke aside, I'm very strongly against unique (artifact/once-per-server) loot. Why waste valuable developer time making such items that only VERY few people will ever see?
Rare (and ultra rare) items are ok, although I personally would prefer if "ultra rare" was applied sparingly. Having to stay in places you have already spent lots of time, maybe to the point where mobs begin to become trivial, just because you want (or worse, need) that ultra rare drop? Doesn't sound fun to me.
Iksar said:Vandraad said:You do realize that you can't collect unique items if someone else already has it. How would you like it if, when you were looking for a game and saw a huge list of unique items you could collect only to then find out they were alll taken and there was nothing for you? And what if no other such things were ever introduced again? At least with low probability drop rates everyone who puts in enough effort has an equal chance as everyone else to obtain a desired item.
It wouldn't bother me too much. I never had a problem with items in EQ that were removed from the drop tables like rubicite/guise/manastone/etc, though many of those could still be bought from players.
Those items you mentioned were designed to be unique, but were removed for being overpowered. Rubicite was replaced with the quested class armor and the Manastone (which converted HP to Mana) gave anyone who used mana basically infinite mana. Any item that is found to be unbalanced, overpowered, etc needs to be removed, fixed or replaced for the health of the game. But this thread isn't about that, it is about purposefully putting in items that only drop once on a server and if that actually benefits the game in the long term.
pauloleson said: I've always found unique items with unique powers fun to collect and use, and if done well can still be somewhat balanced. What do you think?
I wouldn't mind seeing random stats generated on the same item. The number of bonus stats depends on the rarity of the item.
i.e. Shield of the Fallen Tower:
AC= X Static Amount
Special Effect= Increases block chance by X% after being critically struck
Rare Attribute bonus1= Random attribute
Epic Attribute bonus2= Random atttribute
Legendary Attribute bonus3= Random Effect (haste, regen, enduring breath etc)
add: This would make all items somewhat unique while maintaining their primary role if someone specifically wanted an item for the special effect, but still wanted to be a little different than every other person of that class.
Great idea, Darch, a bit of a hybrid approach. Base item status makes it desirable, extra/bonus stats (either randomly added or modified/enchanted) within a tier cap. Nice. Even random extra/bonus slots would be a nice feature, if they were empty or filled, or could be filled with crafting/enchantment.
I feel like we NEED unique and also rare items. If they are all cookie cutter and drop all the time then it just becomes a task list to gearing up. Adding ultra rare variations of an item is somewhat going down the RNG path. But if the drop rate/spawn rate of an item/mob is the only RNG factor and the stats are always the same for that ultra rare item i would be more ok with that. I always liked how in EQ1 they implemented fabled versions of mobs and fabled versions of items. If that was a standard dynamic event all the time i would totally be ok with that. It's when you end up grinding the same mobs over and over and only ever get the +2 item when you know the RNG generator can spawn a +3 item that is what will get people turned off by the system.
I also get miffed when you know that zonewide a specific ultra rare item can drop, but you dont know if you have to kill spiders or orcs to get it to drop. Stick with a race and a zone and call it good for ultra rare items. Or just keep it on a boss mob's alternate spawn identity. I would rather have the Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde persona and deal with ultra rare encounters and subsequent loot tables than deal with spending 100 hours in one zone hoping to see an ultra rare.
Predictable variance.
Thanks a lot for bringing back memories of that damn Fungi Tunic that 10% of the Shamans were lucky enough to have. And the rest of us couldn't keep up with our Cannibalize as easily, or we got stuck with that stupid Fungi Stick we had to swap out constantly to get a lesser effect.
Unique items- let the GM’s have their fun if they want.
Rare items (like Circlet of Shadow, Guise of Deceiver, etc...) I Hope they’re in game. Obtaining them is the stuff great gaming memories are made of for me. And when they get removed (like the Manastone) or changed like the Circlet of Shadow/Circlet of Shadows, then the ones remaining become legendary and that’s okay too.
Darch said:I wouldn't mind seeing random stats generated on the same item. The number of bonus stats depends on the rarity of the item.
i.e. Shield of the Fallen Tower:
AC= X Static Amount
Special Effect= Increases block chance by X% after being critically struck
Rare Attribute bonus1= Random attribute
Epic Attribute bonus2= Random atttribute
Legendary Attribute bonus3= Random Effect (haste, regen, enduring breath etc)add: This would make all items somewhat unique while maintaining their primary role if someone specifically wanted an item for the special effect, but still wanted to be a little different than every other person of that class.
I like your idea of having a rare item made even more rare because there is a chance for an additional stat or proc effect. I like the idea of having these types of rare items drop zonewide and not just from a named mob. This way you always have an incentive to just be out there hunting and exploring the world.
