Forums » Crafting

Quests that introduce crafting

    • 1545 posts
    September 20, 2017 8:20 AM PDT

    I've been thinking about this for a little bit. I've always enjoyed questing and I have always enjoyed crafting but it is quite rare (at least in the games I have played) that you have a quest line that leads you through some crafting tasks and that introduce the whole system to the player.

    I'm not really talking about a tutorial but a set of real quests that give decent rewards but that introduce players to crafting who might not have gone out and done some crafting without the quest. It would be interesting to see how you could combine questing, the perception system and craftimg all into one package and I think Pantheon has the opportunity to create a crafting system that appeals to more than just the hardcore crafters.

    Of course if you appeal to a larger portion of the player base with crafting you have to make sure that crafted items don't flood the market and thus lose all value.

    I'd like crafters to be able to use the perception skill to look at raid dropped gear, then understand how it works and then maybe use that understanding from the perception to improve it. It would also work by examining quest reward items as well.

    So you could have a quest line that dealt with perception and one of the options in that quest line was to introduce using the perception system when combined with crafting for example.

    What does everyone else think? I just like the idea of having a reason to craft rather than just sitting their crafting items just to level up making items that are either vendor trash or sold off cheaply to players as that doesn't seem a very useful thing for a player to spend their time on. Having quests would give players a perpose.


    This post was edited by Cromulent at September 20, 2017 8:20 AM PDT
    • 22 posts
    September 20, 2017 3:01 PM PDT

    I think it would be nice to offer some low end crafting options for people once they got into the higher levels 20-30. It is annoying in how so many mmos they want you to craft at level 1, while you are also trying to learn the system of fighting. Does not mean you cant craft that low, but give me time before throwing more interfaces at me for me to get use to it. 

     

    I think it would be nice if crafting was meaningful. If everyone can do it then it has no value or very little. It would be nice to see different crafting tied to different mini games, such as Match 3. The better you do the more magic you managed to imbue the item with out of its max holding based on parts making the item. This would also welcome in more casual and female players who are not in the MMO for killing or adventuring while giving them the same amount of community praise or interaction. 

     

    Crafting should be more meaningful than I pressed a button and watched a bar fill up then I have a new item in my bag. It would also be nice if their was co-op or even team/raid size crafting for more legendary items. A smith is doing his mini game making and folding the iron while the Mage is imbue-ing it with magic. Allow crafting guilds to be a thing other than just farming a ever respawning resource node. 

     

    • 41 posts
    September 20, 2017 11:48 PM PDT

    I'm sure in Vanguard to complete the shipwright you had crafting quests to seek out specific npc crafters who would teach you the next skill to advance "memorys bit fuzzy on this been a while" :). So cant mind the specifics, but something along those lines would be good and if its  expanded upon would be awesome.

    • 1545 posts
    September 21, 2017 1:46 AM PDT

    DuckofDeath said:

    I think it would be nice to offer some low end crafting options for people once they got into the higher levels 20-30. It is annoying in how so many mmos they want you to craft at level 1, while you are also trying to learn the system of fighting. Does not mean you cant craft that low, but give me time before throwing more interfaces at me for me to get use to it. 

     

    I think it would be nice if crafting was meaningful. If everyone can do it then it has no value or very little. It would be nice to see different crafting tied to different mini games, such as Match 3. The better you do the more magic you managed to imbue the item with out of its max holding based on parts making the item. This would also welcome in more casual and female players who are not in the MMO for killing or adventuring while giving them the same amount of community praise or interaction. 

     

    Crafting should be more meaningful than I pressed a button and watched a bar fill up then I have a new item in my bag. It would also be nice if their was co-op or even team/raid size crafting for more legendary items. A smith is doing his mini game making and folding the iron while the Mage is imbue-ing it with magic. Allow crafting guilds to be a thing other than just farming a ever respawning resource node. 

     

    I certainly agree with you that crafting should be meaningful but I disagree with you when you say that you should be level 20 to level 30 before you start crafting. I want to be able to do crafting as my primary job on one of my alts which means that the majority of the time I spend playing that character would be spent crafting.

    I don't see why you would have to level up as an adventurer before you can start crafting. They are two different professions. I hope the option is available to some people that want to spend 90% of their time crafting.

    I always found it annoying that in other games to be a really successful crafter you had to be a max level adventurer.

    • 1545 posts
    September 21, 2017 1:49 AM PDT

    Akahai said:

    I'm sure in Vanguard to complete the shipwright you had crafting quests to seek out specific npc crafters who would teach you the next skill to advance "memorys bit fuzzy on this been a while" :). So cant mind the specifics, but something along those lines would be good and if its  expanded upon would be awesome.

    Yep. That would be really good.

    But it would be even better if there were a whole load of crafting quests that let you do all kinds of things.

    One example I was thinking of was a series of quests to learn how to craft racial armour for either your own race or another races armour. It would have to be a long hard quest to stop everyone being able to make the racial armour of all races but it would certainly be rewarding for those crafters who take the time to do the quests.

    • 22 posts
    September 21, 2017 8:22 AM PDT

    Cromulent said:

    DuckofDeath said:

    I think it would be nice to offer some low end crafting options for people once they got into the higher levels 20-30. It is annoying in how so many mmos they want you to craft at level 1, while you are also trying to learn the system of fighting. Does not mean you cant craft that low, but give me time before throwing more interfaces at me for me to get use to it. 

    I certainly agree with you that crafting should be meaningful but I disagree with you when you say that you should be level 20 to level 30 before you start crafting. I want to be able to do crafting as my primary job on one of my alts which means that the majority of the time I spend playing that character would be spent crafting.

    I don't see why you would have to level up as an adventurer before you can start crafting. They are two different professions. I hope the option is available to some people that want to spend 90% of their time crafting.

    I always found it annoying that in other games to be a really successful crafter you had to be a max level adventurer.

     

    I never said you should not be allowed to craft at low levels. Even in my own statement the very next sentence says such. I just dont like what ends up happening with the quests book throwing 5-10 more quests at you, just one more thing to handle while low level. Yet if all your going to do is craft then you should not be forced to level in order to craft. Like I said in my very next sentence!

    • 1545 posts
    September 21, 2017 8:48 AM PDT

    DuckofDeath said:

    Cromulent said:

    DuckofDeath said:

    I think it would be nice to offer some low end crafting options for people once they got into the higher levels 20-30. It is annoying in how so many mmos they want you to craft at level 1, while you are also trying to learn the system of fighting. Does not mean you cant craft that low, but give me time before throwing more interfaces at me for me to get use to it. 

    I certainly agree with you that crafting should be meaningful but I disagree with you when you say that you should be level 20 to level 30 before you start crafting. I want to be able to do crafting as my primary job on one of my alts which means that the majority of the time I spend playing that character would be spent crafting.

    I don't see why you would have to level up as an adventurer before you can start crafting. They are two different professions. I hope the option is available to some people that want to spend 90% of their time crafting.

    I always found it annoying that in other games to be a really successful crafter you had to be a max level adventurer.

    I never said you should not be allowed to craft at low levels. Even in my own statement the very next sentence says such. I just dont like what ends up happening with the quests book throwing 5-10 more quests at you, just one more thing to handle while low level. Yet if all your going to do is craft then you should not be forced to level in order to craft. Like I said in my very next sentence!

    Ah, sorry. I've been ill the last couple of days. I didn't read your post properly.

    • 414 posts
    September 21, 2017 5:42 PM PDT

    I like the idea of trade skill quests. 

    Unfortunately, we won't see amazing quests like the (in)famous Shawl Quest (both versions) in EQ, in Pantheon as we can only do one tradeskill per character.  I'm still not convinced that I cannot be a master brewer and a master baker, or a master fletcher and a master tailor, or a master smith and a master jewelcrafter at the same time.  Perhaps in the not too distant future, we can actually do 2 different ones.

    However, while at some level I appreciate that in general people are not skilled at too many crafts, there certainly could be the option that one can get some basic skills in all crafts and then have the ability to determine which skill one will specialize in. I think in EQ, you could only master one skill initially, but later could get to 300 in all. Or similarly, casters could choose to specialize in Evocation, Divination, etc.

    I can't remember if there is a plan like the above.  So much talk about it. But if there was, then having (optional of course) quests that introduce tradeskills and the mechanics thereof would be fantastic.

    • 1545 posts
    September 22, 2017 5:38 AM PDT

    Durp said:

    I like the idea of trade skill quests. 

    Unfortunately, we won't see amazing quests like the (in)famous Shawl Quest (both versions) in EQ, in Pantheon as we can only do one tradeskill per character.  I'm still not convinced that I cannot be a master brewer and a master baker, or a master fletcher and a master tailor, or a master smith and a master jewelcrafter at the same time.  Perhaps in the not too distant future, we can actually do 2 different ones.

    However, while at some level I appreciate that in general people are not skilled at too many crafts, there certainly could be the option that one can get some basic skills in all crafts and then have the ability to determine which skill one will specialize in. I think in EQ, you could only master one skill initially, but later could get to 300 in all. Or similarly, casters could choose to specialize in Evocation, Divination, etc.

    I can't remember if there is a plan like the above.  So much talk about it. But if there was, then having (optional of course) quests that introduce tradeskills and the mechanics thereof would be fantastic.

    I would hope that becoming a master crafter in Pantheon would take so much time that it would simply be impractical do it. In fact I agree with you the game should let you master every single crafting profession. The thing that should stop you is the amount of time and effort required to achieve that goal much like in real life.

    Edit: There shouldn't be anything stopping the devs from having epic crafting quests it would just need to be done a bit differently if you can only realistically master one profession. It might even be better if you require the help of other crafters as it would help to build the community at the same time.


    This post was edited by Cromulent at September 22, 2017 5:40 AM PDT
    • 251 posts
    September 22, 2017 7:48 PM PDT

    The whole tradeskill quest concept could be scrapped if everyone chooses a more specific place to be "from" that has a functional reason to exist that revolves around specific local resources and tradeskills to compliment them.

    What if in character select, you chose your initial starting location by what kind of work is availible in a given area.  Maybe a port city has Fishing Charters, a Dock Worker's Union, and a Merchantile Academy.  A village in the foothills of a mountain with ore in it, might have Miners Union, an Agriculture Academy, and an Herbalist Market where local people from the region come to trade.

    You could make the place you are from, be the source of your trade.  Or, you could move to a new place, by getting a new job there, and changing your trade to something new to facilitate the process.

    Maybe the only quest you need to worry about for tradeskills, is just a quest to move to a new city, or village, and take up shop as a blacksmith as part of the process of moving and establishing a new "Home".

    Every town and city could have a selection of jobs and tradeskills that at tier 1 compliment each other, but at higher tiers requires travel and work with other skilled workers from other regions, and maybe even temporary housing mechanics (maybe we can finally get a Real Inn).

    The idea that anyone can do any craft they want and just freely run around siphoning up resources and dominating markets from whatever hub has the fastest harvest-to-travel-time ratio should end.

    I want a world where every NPC has a job, a life, and reason for being there.  I want every player to be able to step into one of those jobs and take over for that NPC.  To step into their life, and have a reason for being connected to the world.  And I want the game world itself to always have some underlying purpose.

    I want the game world to decide where settlements pop up, and what services can be availible.  Say if you have a healthy flowing stream in the forest near some open meadows, you might need an apprentice smith skilled in repair, a fresh water Fishing shop, some grains growing in those meadows, and a water wheel powering a sawmill and a grain mill.  Nothing should be there that is not relative to the resources availible.

    Too often I see level designers just force nonsense into a location to make things fit.  They might add in a stream or a meadow, or a nearby mine, just to give a flimsy sense of purpose to the area.  But what they should have done, in my opinion, is create a world that dictates to the Developer, and the Player, where resources and points of interest should be.

    Every place should have a reason for existing.  And if you delete all the settlement, or point of interest assets,  you should be able to infer that purpose from bare undeveloped landscape.

    It would be really amazing to have player characters go through their starting tutorial as a training session to replace an existing NPC in the game.  So every new character has a built in role they can fill, or ignore.  But if they ignore it too long another NPC, or player, can move in to replace them.  This shouldn't be all that complex either.  You could even allow players, to function as quest givers if they, for instance, own the Smithy in a city or village.  You could use a notice board in the smithy, or direct player control, to replace the idea of a market place, with the concept of chores and work.  If you are a smith and you need Ore, you could hand out quests for people to harvest Ore.  How cool would that be?

    • 1545 posts
    September 22, 2017 11:26 PM PDT

    ZennExile said:

    The whole tradeskill quest concept could be scrapped if everyone chooses a more specific place to be "from" that has a functional reason to exist that revolves around specific local resources and tradeskills to compliment them.

    What if in character select, you chose your initial starting location by what kind of work is availible in a given area.  Maybe a port city has Fishing Charters, a Dock Worker's Union, and a Merchantile Academy.  A village in the foothills of a mountain with ore in it, might have Miners Union, an Agriculture Academy, and an Herbalist Market where local people from the region come to trade.

    You could make the place you are from, be the source of your trade.  Or, you could move to a new place, by getting a new job there, and changing your trade to something new to facilitate the process.

    Maybe the only quest you need to worry about for tradeskills, is just a quest to move to a new city, or village, and take up shop as a blacksmith as part of the process of moving and establishing a new "Home".

    Every town and city could have a selection of jobs and tradeskills that at tier 1 compliment each other, but at higher tiers requires travel and work with other skilled workers from other regions, and maybe even temporary housing mechanics (maybe we can finally get a Real Inn).

    The idea that anyone can do any craft they want and just freely run around siphoning up resources and dominating markets from whatever hub has the fastest harvest-to-travel-time ratio should end.

    I want a world where every NPC has a job, a life, and reason for being there.  I want every player to be able to step into one of those jobs and take over for that NPC.  To step into their life, and have a reason for being connected to the world.  And I want the game world itself to always have some underlying purpose.

    I want the game world to decide where settlements pop up, and what services can be availible.  Say if you have a healthy flowing stream in the forest near some open meadows, you might need an apprentice smith skilled in repair, a fresh water Fishing shop, some grains growing in those meadows, and a water wheel powering a sawmill and a grain mill.  Nothing should be there that is not relative to the resources availible.

    Too often I see level designers just force nonsense into a location to make things fit.  They might add in a stream or a meadow, or a nearby mine, just to give a flimsy sense of purpose to the area.  But what they should have done, in my opinion, is create a world that dictates to the Developer, and the Player, where resources and points of interest should be.

    Every place should have a reason for existing.  And if you delete all the settlement, or point of interest assets,  you should be able to infer that purpose from bare undeveloped landscape.

    It would be really amazing to have player characters go through their starting tutorial as a training session to replace an existing NPC in the game.  So every new character has a built in role they can fill, or ignore.  But if they ignore it too long another NPC, or player, can move in to replace them.  This shouldn't be all that complex either.  You could even allow players, to function as quest givers if they, for instance, own the Smithy in a city or village.  You could use a notice board in the smithy, or direct player control, to replace the idea of a market place, with the concept of chores and work.  If you are a smith and you need Ore, you could hand out quests for people to harvest Ore.  How cool would that be?

    I like your idea. It would certainly be cool if players formed groups and professions around an area based on the natural resources available and it would be great if what an area was best known for was dictated by NPCs that could be taken over by players but I just worry that people won't be able to do what they really want because they are in the wrong location.

    What if you added a new profession to the game called Trader? And the Traders job was to move materials from one part of the world to another based on what is required in different locations.

    You could even tie this system up with the racial armour system if they are going to have one. So that the materials available in say Dark Myr areas are only really suitable to create Dark Myr racial armour and that if you want to make Elf racial armour you'd need to move to one of the Elf cities or outposts.

    It would be great if proximity to certain resources dictated what a player could in any given place and if Traders were in the game it would add another layer of depth to the system.

    • 251 posts
    September 22, 2017 11:40 PM PDT

    You could even make trading a team or competitive sport during events where maybe a keep is destroyed, so they are paying 500% for a limited time to collect stone, wood, and specialized manufactured goods to repair the damage.  Get weird with it just for giggles.  I would make it like a mini game where you ride a cart pulled by an unruly donkey that keeps trying to go for the grass clumps on the side of the road.  And I would give the players apples to throw in the road in front of the donkey to straighten back out, but just enough apples to barely make it...  then add on random crash events that reduce the total amount of any resource collected by a fixed % amount down to what would be 25% of the total you started with if you just afk and let the donkey eat grass whenever it feels like.

    I donno, something like that.

    • 1515 posts
    September 25, 2017 9:43 PM PDT

    Let me start by saying I love Zenn's idea :)

    As far as making crafting meaningful - I'm of the opinion that the greatest meaning lies in making things other players can and will use.  I'm not a fan of crafting for NPCs, especially not when it's repetitive.  That said... 

    FFXIV has progression quests in crafting that reward gear and sometimes skills, and are designed to sort of introduce you to different concepts as they get progressively more difficult.  For example, the first crafting class quest has you do a simple refine.  The next one teaches you about the quality bar and how to increase it, and the third teaches you about mass production, and so on.

    Vanguard had a variety of crafting quests - some opened new recipes (like ships), others rewarded a piece of crafting gear.  Doing these quests was optional, but you could gear yourself up really well if you took the time to find them and do them.

    So, while I still say the focus of crafting should be supplying players, and I am not a fan of repetitive crafting for NPC turn ins - I think crafting quests, that are singular and unique, can be awesome of done well.  For example, make a new set of tools for the village tanner, and he gives you a nice crafting apron in return.  That sort of thing.

    I'd also be ok with systems where you craft things for NPCs and the things you contribute have a visible effect in the game world - ie, not just cash in your pocket.  So if you make armor for the soldiers, then as you do it you should see more soldiers walking around the garrison (or better armored soldiers).  I suppose my requirement for any sort of repeatable crafting jobs is that they have a visible impact on the world.  That helps keep the immersion.

    I dunno, my 2gp on the topic :)