Some PUGs last longer than a guild too.
I have joined guilds with people I met in PUGs,but in the end I left them most of the times,feeling all bad about it.
If at most 2 players come on in that guild for months or more
You might as well offer them a friend request :being in these guillds that never grow larger than the size of a PUG holds you back from meeting new friends.
Read somewhere there will be a one guild limitation ,can't say I'm too happy about that
The one guild limitation has put me in unpleasant positions before, where I had to choose between the guild I played the game with before my in real friends joined and the new guild of irl friends
One guild limitation can force us to act in such a drastic manner
In more recent games I've always chosen to remain an unguilded player
Because I don't want to belong and carry a banner ;Remaining that stranger that can be anyone's friend seems too appealing
But you'll also be disadvantaged in certain areas if you deliberately remain unguilded.As many players will brand you as a disloyal and unreliable player.
Guilds can limit the pool of potential friends,it changes your relation to strangers you meet on the way.
One guild vs other options could be a topic on its own that I'd love to see debated,
unfortunately it seems like they have already made up their mind about guilds,
although it has put me in painful positions in the past ,it will be the thing in this game I'd have to accept even if I don't like it . Ofcourse remaining unguilded can be a choice you make.
Old Targonor was the human kingdom in Vanguard ?
Haven't gotten far enough in the simulator of Vanguard to know how many activities there are for players,or is it like any modern mmo where you :do the town-run-questhub-thing,visit a shop before you leave town?
In more recent games, cities do not offer a lot ,if any, group activities;
if players would be able to blend into the scene with certain town activities ,it might be easier for kindred spirits to find each other.
Some MMOs have a training doll in towns that is rarely interacted with.There might be room for much improvement here?
Cant find info on Kruger's End.What do you think made it memorable @Klumpedge? To put a finger on what made these things memorable is hard too
I like their vision about spending meaningful time in each area
Here is the type of player that sticks till a group is fully disbanded,likes to talk before and afterwards.
When strategy is required to solve content,grouping is a whole different process
It requires understanding,patience
Recent games have taken up the near instant gratification model,there are scoreboards,no room for error and no room for lasting contacts.Its like a second job.Communication limited to Hi-Gogogo-Cya bye
It is reassuring that VR values spending meaningful time in areas.As it could be an indication that I might meet more kindred spirits who value the same things when it comes to grouping
Fluffy said:Old Targonor was the human kingdom in Vanguard ?
Haven't gotten far enough in the simulator of Vanguard to know how many activities there are for players,or is it like any modern mmo where you :do the town-run-questhub-thing,visit a shop before you leave town?
In more recent games, cities do not offer a lot ,if any, group activities;
if players would be able to blend into the scene with certain town activities ,it might be easier for kindred spirits to find each other.
Some MMOs have a training doll in towns that is rarely interacted with.There might be room for much improvement here?Cant find info on Kruger's End.What do you think made it memorable @Klumpedge? To put a finger on what made these things memorable is hard too
I like their vision about spending meaningful time in each area
Here is the type of player that sticks till a group is fully disbanded,likes to talk before and afterwards.
When strategy is required to solve content,grouping is a whole different process
It requires understanding,patienceRecent games have taken up the near instant gratification model,there are scoreboards,no room for error and no room for lasting contacts.Its like a second job.Communication limited to Hi-Gogogo-Cya bye
It is reassuring that VR values spending meaningful time in areas.As it could be an indication that I might meet more kindred spirits who value the same things when it comes to grouping
New Targanor (NT) is the Human capitol in Thestra, Old Targanor (OT) is the ruins overrun with undead and some very powerful knights which is also in Thestra ;)
Kilsin said:New Targanor (NT) is the Human capitol in Thestra, Old Targanor (OT) is the ruins overrun with undead and some very powerful knights which is also in Thestra ;)
Ah,so that is why numerous of grouping happened in Old Taragonor
The place was so dangerous players were happy to meet others on the way
Makes more sense
Usually in capital cities players cross each other like on a busy intersection during rush hour ,occupied with themselves
I was really curious which incentive a city would offer for numerous good grouping memories
Undead and very powerful knights explains it
When content puts us in need of help, there is a lot of good group opportunity
I personally hope PUGs are a necessity in Pantheon, like they once were in EverQuest. In EQ, due to narrower level restrictions, a lack of mentoring (which is incredibly important), the size of the world, the rarity of items, and a variety of other time constraints, utilizing random players was essential if you were to maximize your time and camp very specific items that you needed for your class/level.
Today, PUGs are unnecessary due to convenience. My vote is that Pantheon makes them a necessity once again. That is the real way to bring back "community" to the MMORPG.
Dullahan said:I personally hope PUGs are a necessity in Pantheon, like they once were in EverQuest. In EQ, due to narrower level restrictions, a lack of mentoring (which is incredibly important), the size of the world, the rarity of items, and a variety of other time constraints, utilizing random players was essential if you were to maximize your time and camp very specific items that you needed for your class/level.
Today, PUGs are unnecessary due to convenience. My vote is that Pantheon makes them a necessity once again. That is the real way to bring back "community" to the MMORPG.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. Besides, it was FUN to put 3 monks, 2 wizards and a bard together and go do crazy crap.
Dullahan said:I personally hope PUGs are a necessity in Pantheon, like they once were in EverQuest. In EQ, due to narrower level restrictions, a lack of mentoring (which is incredibly important), the size of the world, the rarity of items, and a variety of other time constraints, utilizing random players was essential if you were to maximize your time and camp very specific items that you needed for your class/level.
Today, PUGs are unnecessary due to convenience. My vote is that Pantheon makes them a necessity once again. That is the real way to bring back "community" to the MMORPG.
Although I enjoy PUGs, I do so because I choose to.
Under no circumstance should VR ever force me to PUG because you want it to be a necessity.
Beefcake said:Dullahan said:I personally hope PUGs are a necessity in Pantheon, like they once were in EverQuest. In EQ, due to narrower level restrictions, a lack of mentoring (which is incredibly important), the size of the world, the rarity of items, and a variety of other time constraints, utilizing random players was essential if you were to maximize your time and camp very specific items that you needed for your class/level.
Today, PUGs are unnecessary due to convenience. My vote is that Pantheon makes them a necessity once again. That is the real way to bring back "community" to the MMORPG.
Although I enjoy PUGs, I do so because I choose to.
Under no circumstance should VR ever force me to PUG because you want it to be a necessity.
I never said anyone should be forced. Players should do it out of necessity because it would be more convenient to join a group of players in a certain locale, rather than requiring a friend leave a group or place important to their progression, or waiting for a player of the proper level range in your guild to log online.
If a player is adamant about only playing with a particular group of people, they can do so to their own inconvenience. For everyone else, they will look to the community for the broader social experience and to optimize their play time.
Beefcake said:Dullahan said:I personally hope PUGs are a necessity in Pantheon, like they once were in EverQuest. In EQ, due to narrower level restrictions, a lack of mentoring (which is incredibly important), the size of the world, the rarity of items, and a variety of other time constraints, utilizing random players was essential if you were to maximize your time and camp very specific items that you needed for your class/level.
Today, PUGs are unnecessary due to convenience. My vote is that Pantheon makes them a necessity once again. That is the real way to bring back "community" to the MMORPG.
Although I enjoy PUGs, I do so because I choose to.
Under no circumstance should VR ever force me to PUG because you want it to be a necessity.
I think people are blowing some things out of proportion. We're going to be able to solo in this game. Should monks, rogues and warriors expect to be able to solo easily? No. Should the summoner and shaman expect to be able to get dungeon loot without a group? No.
I was having a really bad day on my cleric. I'd been in bad group after bad group, and finally, I was soloing some undead because I'd just had it. Up to the teeth. It was slow and painful and I hated it desperately, lol.
Someone sent me a tell asking me to come to Karnor's Castle. I told him no, and that I'd rather solo than deal with another bad group. He pursuaded me, however, and off I went. When I got there, we went pretty deeply into KC, and every "train" was just a "pull" for us. That particular warrior who sent me that tell took me under his wing, deciding that I needed a little, shall we say, "refinement". He taught me how to purple tanks (this means where they fall over, but aren't QUITE dead yet, and if a heal lands, they pop right back up and keep going). Indeed, he'd run away if I started my CH "too soon".
Turned one of my worst PUG days into one of my many genuinely lasting friendships. Helped me grow as a cleric and expand into what became an empire of raiding, lol. I was strongly considering quitting the game for a while (if not forever) when he found me and helped me grow and expand my capacity. I loved being a raiding cleric that was always on spot heals because I was too valuable for the CH line. Had I turned down that one group, who knows what might have happened.
The best PUG I have had in many years was in Neverwinter during their winter festival. It turned out that we were all about the same age, liked the same things and had compatible senses of humor. We did gift trading for many hours that night and I stayed up four hours past my bed time just to hang with those amazing new friends. Then I got a new job and haven't had time for both Neverwinter and time with my son, but that was then. I have a newer new job with time to spare, but I'm saving all my MMORPG love for Pantheon. I did tell them all about Pantheon and every single one either expressed interest or already knew about it and wanted in. There is a market. None here are surprised by that, though. 8b
The mindful warrior that took Amris under the wing is the kind of player that makes the difference. Minding only your own business or mind about the players around you.
If we are only invested in ourselves,ofcourse we won't make lasting connections.
The necessity to PUG won't make sure players connect. Many will invite you to take down the group mob and drop you as soon as the deed is done. Everyone gets these random group invites once in a while, I do not always accept the invites from people that never talked to me,often i'm inclined not to.
Fluffy said:Kilsin said:New Targanor (NT) is the Human capitol in Thestra, Old Targanor (OT) is the ruins overrun with undead and some very powerful knights which is also in Thestra ;)
Ah,so that is why numerous of grouping happened in Old Taragonor
The place was so dangerous players were happy to meet others on the way
Makes more sense
Usually in capital cities players cross each other like on a busy intersection during rush hour ,occupied with themselves
I was really curious which incentive a city would offer for numerous good grouping memoriesUndead and very powerful knights explains it
When content puts us in need of help, there is a lot of good group opportunity
Yes, not only that but those powerful OT knights (there are six of them) were part of a very long and awesome quest to own your very own Griffon flying mount and is one of the best quests I have ever done in any MMORPG to date. Plus there was a nearby undead town with a huge amount of quests, some repeatable for late 30's early 40's characters so it was a pretty active chunk :)
NT was very tough on a lot of peoples PCs due to how many things you had to render, it was a common joke about NT being a place to test your PC as you would either pass with a single digit FPS score or crumble under the pressure of loading the zone lol, so while it was awesome, looked epic it was tough to navigate if you had a low end PC back in the early days but it had great Diplo, Crafting and Adventuring quests all around that chunk.
Best Pug I ever had was back in EQ1. We [A Warrior, Cleric, Bard, Druid (Me), Monk and a Necro] found a nice little spot outside of Karnor's Castle and went to work. We worked so well together that none of us wanted to leave. About 12 hours later (it was 7am) I was the first to say I had to go and get some sleep and the group quickly disbanded after that. We were all just waiting for the first person to speak up. We got about a level and a half that night, I finished off a hell level and Dinged again after that. Great group. I didnt form any neverending friendships or lasting RL bonds that night, But I'll never forget that night either.
That was about 15 years ago. The problem with the word PUG now-a-days is that it is usually synonymous with BAD. I tend to stick to my guild groups now. And when I do PUG I pray that the person is semi competent. I have been spreading the word to my current guildies and friends about Pantheon. Already tring to set up a group of players I know. Now Im sure There will be the need for the occasional PUG, like now. But I probably wont try it unless it's absolutely necessary. I will have my gf as my pocket healer and a few other friends (10ish so far) to group with already.
There been so many Good times in PUG's back in EQ its hard to pick one, but i think one that i allmost allways think about first is the one where we was 6 warriors LFG and desided to just group up and used bandaging as main healing, it was slow and the xp wasent good but how we had to try bounse the Aggro betwine us to ensure noone died and how much fun we had just being together talking betwine fights and sutch made it one of the better groups i ever had :)
Ohh and i suddenly remembered my "best" Death in a PUG i was tanking goblins in the cellar in oh what was it called again? High Hold Keep? anyway, group was good, steady xp and everything went fine for a long time, so after a while i stopped looking at my HP bar cause the Cleric did an amazing job all the time, then suddenly i just dropped dead...no heals came the entire fight. So i asked WTH happened it went a min or so then suddenly the cleric said "Sorry my GF's Boobs was in the way"......He was forgiven right away :) Best excuse i have ever heard :)
I have had my share of pugs over the years. Most have been easily forgettable. On occasion I have found some of the most proficient gamers in pugs. I have joined guilds and made lasting friends in pick up groups. In fact I met my best friend in one. I was using my Druid to power level others. She was fairly new to the game and picked up on things quickly. We started doing all of our killing together. Eventually we raided together. We both played and still play healers and set the bar for healing in every guild we have been in. A pug gave me my best friend for almost a decade now. We constantly strive to be better than the other. When Pantheon comes out, our struggle to out heal the other will continue. Thank you pugs. You are a pain in my butt at times, but sometimes you really deliver.
Kilsin said:Yes, not only that but those powerful OT knights (there are six of them) were part of a very long and awesome quest
to own your very own Griffon flying mount and is one of the best quests I have ever done in any MMORPG to date.
Plus there was a nearby undead town with a huge amount of quests, some repeatable for late 30's early 40's characters so it was a pretty active chunk :)
NT was very tough on a lot of peoples PCs due to how many things you had to render,
it was a common joke about NT being a place to test your PC as you would either pass with a single digit FPS score or crumble under the pressure of loading the zone lol, so while it was awesome,
looked epic it was tough to navigate if you had a low end PC back in the early days but it had great Diplo, Crafting and Adventuring quests all around that chunk.
In general I believe earning things like a griffon mount gives players a gratifying feeling ,compared to buying one (less exciting I think)
You think it was because of population that NT was a place to test the FPS of your PC? While cities are often zones where the population is so concentrated that loading into it can fry your PC, it rarely is a place where people PUG
Or are there people here who have good memories of PUGs in cities?
Dumannios said:i stopped looking at my HP bar cause the Cleric did an amazing job all the time,
then suddenly i just dropped dead...no heals came the entire fight. So i asked WTH happened it went a min or so then suddenly the cleric said "Sorry my GF's Boobs was in the way"......
He was forgiven right away :) Best excuse i have ever heard :)
Wonder if a female orc boob tank would be as easily forgiven too
Fluffy said:Kilsin said:Yes, not only that but those powerful OT knights (there are six of them) were part of a very long and awesome quest
to own your very own Griffon flying mount and is one of the best quests I have ever done in any MMORPG to date.
Plus there was a nearby undead town with a huge amount of quests, some repeatable for late 30's early 40's characters so it was a pretty active chunk :)
NT was very tough on a lot of peoples PCs due to how many things you had to render,
it was a common joke about NT being a place to test your PC as you would either pass with a single digit FPS score or crumble under the pressure of loading the zone lol, so while it was awesome,
looked epic it was tough to navigate if you had a low end PC back in the early days but it had great Diplo, Crafting and Adventuring quests all around that chunk.In general I believe earning things like a griffon mount gives players a gratifying feeling ,compared to buying one (less exciting I think)
You think it was because of population that NT was a place to test the FPS of your PC? While cities are often zones where the population is so concentrated that loading into it can fry your PC, it rarely is a place where people PUGOr are there people here who have good memories of PUGs in cities?
Dumannios said:i stopped looking at my HP bar cause the Cleric did an amazing job all the time,
then suddenly i just dropped dead...no heals came the entire fight. So i asked WTH happened it went a min or so then suddenly the cleric said "Sorry my GF's Boobs was in the way"......
He was forgiven right away :) Best excuse i have ever heard :)Wonder if a female orc boob tank would be as easily forgiven too
No, sadly the NT chunk just wasn't optimised properly and it was very tough on your PC, later on the devs fixed it up a lot and it was a lot easier to run around without locking up but there are a lot of buildings and items to render, not to mention all of the NPCs etc. it is still a great city though, I loved NT. :)
Interesting,it appears NT had a system where players could declare allegiance to a noble house
House heartsworn noble house of knights,House shrike started by a mercenary captain,House Thistle,House Caberton etc
Once the player belonged to a particular house,many of them would allow you to purchase items by trading status and you could only purchase items from the house
you declared allegiance to.
Diplomatic prestige was needed to dissolve that allegiance and it costed 500 to switch.
Somehing similar could be implemented for Pantheon
Maybe becoming allied to a house can offer that incentive to PUG in cities too ?
Fluffy said:Interesting,it appears NT had a system where players could declare allegiance to a noble house
House heartsworn noble house of knights,House shrike started by a mercenary captain,House Thistle,House Caberton etcOnce the player belonged to a particular house,many of them would allow you to purchase items by trading status and you could only purchase items from the house
you declared allegiance to.
Diplomatic prestige was needed to dissolve that allegiance and it costed 500 to switch.Somehing similar could be implemented for Pantheon
Maybe becoming allied to a house can offer that incentive to PUG in cities too ?
This is probably better suited in an off-topic thread about VG but yes, diplo houses are a big grind and pretty awesome for anyone who enjoyed diplomacy, I was a fully fledged House Hearthsworn member on my Psionicist who was my main diplo character.
The negotiations required with diplomacy might be an excellent starting point for PUG adventure opportunities,starting out in cities.
These kind of social structures(like the noble house example) could get a little life into places when it comes to social interaction in cities.
It is not my intention to turn this into a topic about VG ,still,it is easier to take it as an existing example so people can follow
With such a social structure within a city,it would not only allow players to distinguish themselves;it gives them a cause and a reason to band together with like minded people they meet on the way.
Add some long awesome noble* quests(like the one you mentioned;one of your favorites where you can unlock that griffon mount)
And cities might become like a departure station for PUGS ;a playground for roleplayers
At least there would be good PUG memories in cities in the future if there are none to share now :-D
I played every class and race in Eq, up to about level 20. Just to learn the class, experience the differences. A valuable thing to do if you pvp.
Grouping with pug's on and off when my guild was quiescent was something I did occassionally.
Most of those pugs were good, met new players, had some interesting experiences. Some of whom I was lucky enough to group with regularly. Early EQ was such a uniqe experience and we were all so close.
A memorable pug group adventure was one where we took the boat from FP and it dumped us in the middle of the ocean. Regroup. Discovered Brownies, very short lived encounter. Made it to Sisters Ilse (I think was its name) on way home and the colossus on nearby isle broke its AI and waded out into sea close enought to sink us. (Had to have been a GM, they did like to 'surprize' us :).
However, toward the final year that I played, around 2006, the EQ community changed. Old players moved on, new ones arrived. The pug experience changed drastically.
This was my last one:
Tthe Shaman 'didnt bother to waste money on those buff spells, 'cause I'm gonna tank'.
The rogue did not know how to trip traps and wasn't all that interested in corpse pulling because 'I never did that.
The tanks answer to not protecting the caster: 'let the caster take care of herself, like the rest of us'.
At that point I faded away.