Honestly, when I look at the debates here on maps and auction houses and other things all I see in my mind is monty python:
MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.
GC: A cup ' COLD tea.
EI: Without milk or sugar.
TJ: OR tea!
MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.
EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
TJ: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, 'Money doesn't buy you happiness.'
EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.
GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!
TJ: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor!
MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.
EI: Well when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, but it was a house to US.
GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake!
TJ: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.
MP: Cardboard box?
TJ: Aye.
MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, our Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!
GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!
TJ: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.
EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing 'Hallelujah.'
MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.
ALL: Nope, nope..
HAH! I think to play this game there should be no way of buying and selling at all; my character should be totally unable to work pen and paper to sketch out where he's been in the super dangerous world (because after all, why on earth would anyone do THAT?); there should be no chat outside voice range; it should be pitch black all the time; people should only play with all their fingers and toes cut off, blindfolded, naked and constantly showered with freezing water. On a 24400 V2.4 modem. That's how it was in the gold old days.... Otherwise.... where's the challenge?
Times have moved on since 1999. I want NEW challenges rather than re-living the basic challenges of the past - which primarily existed because this type of game was new and developers didn't know how yet. There are always super suggestions for new things from the communities on all new games, why do we focus so much on re-creating past challenges?
i can see your point. and i am not against new challenges. i hope there will be new systems/new ideas/new challenges all over Terminus.
still i think it's reasonable to ask the question: what was better in the past? what really was an improvement and what was not? since with going new ways, not everything might have been for the better. in my opinion, if newer mmorpgs developed into the wrong direction (which i think they did), it's not a bad idea to go a step backwards.
I am with you 100%. I don't want eq with better graphics and the same old pointless "hardcore" timesinks,With a lot of QOL features removed as they are not "hardcore" enough. Do I want to be trying to get my corpse back for 2 hours at 1am on a sunday night? Do I ****,I am self employed and have to go to work!
All for new challenges. I think there are reasons thou that certan players always find there way back to the games they started with. There is a formula there that cant be explained. Looking at the popularity of the TLP stuff its hard to deny that there is something in how it was crafted that works. Seems like most new ideas are fleeting/gimicy just going by the turn overrate of most mmo's. Of coarse i cant speak for anyone else but i have about 12 MMO's here try to log into them.. get involved.. but never can. I always find my way back to spend 90 percent of my gamein time in the oldest MMO i started on.
On your "negative" ideas i think you actually came up with a good idea!! Lets go back to Localized only chat again!! Sure keep guild, group, and raid chat. But as far as immersion goes i think that it can't be beat. If you wanna sell stuff in a public channel.. go to an area where folks sell stuff and have at it. There is one thing that i have NEVER liked in games is being a sort of captive audience for goobers spamming/selling crap. Yeah you can turn off this channel.. or ignore that player but they always seem to find ways around it. Zone or region chat sure for grouping etc. General channels seem to just end up being a haven for Trolls and gold sellers anyway. Would be nice to have a civilized conversation in them sure but this day in age a mass stage is not really the best choice. We have other methods now for open world chat that can be done out of game, chat services etc.
And as far as playing naked.. well i play naked all the time or is that not what you ment? Just be glad i don't Twitch lol
I may be seeing this incorrectly, but this is what I've gotten from VR from day one of looking into Pantheon. They have said over and over again. This is a new game, with new ideas, and even though they are looking to bring back some of the old MMO style they aren't making EQ2017... Its a balance of old and new that Pantheon is trying to get right. It is up to us in Testing to help provide feedback on this, and make the game the best it can be.
You forgot walking up hill in the winter, barefoot ... both ways ... I agree though, it's time to create our own trends rather than reliving those of the past. Some are tried and true, but we're all due for a healthy dose of new concepts and/or innovation of the old, and I expect nothing less. There are tons of options out there on how to accomplish this, too.
1) Allow our characters to have an impact on shaping the world: Whether it's building/repairing a bridge, excavating a mine, or helping different factions expand their reach, I'd like to see this happen. Let's say a Coliseum is introduced in the future. Allow players to have an influence on how fast it's built and what type of NPC's are held captive there. Create a quest line where we actually have to wrangle beasts up and bring them back to the Coliseum.
2) Legendary Dungeon Crawl: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4986/ideas -- Yep, still going there. My guild has several Ascendant pledges and we have been discussing the idea of aligning the raid/dungeon design perk from that tier from all of our players to see this done, if necessary.
3) Discovering/Inventing new technologies: This could be something like a teleportation system, the ability to use "appearance gear", binding to some of the more dangerous areas, or even building the momentum of getting a city billboard up and running for traders. Rather than the game just starting with these, perhaps allow players to have their own notice boards that they can post wherever they want, and over time, through a united server effort, various regions would allow bigger bulletin boards to be posted in major cities. Tie it into the lore. Perhaps the kings of the different areas have some sort of hardship going on that is preventing them from paying any heed to this demand, and after the server pulls together to alleviate that hardship, he would shift his focus toward "helping the people."
4) Raiding: Allow certain server events to be tied into our champions felling mighty beasts. After vanquishing an undead raiding party that terrorizes certain trade routes, special merchant NPC's will set up shop at a remote area nearby. Consider having an epic raid dragon as a guardian of a temple or cave ... upon being killed, the server has access to that zone. This would last for 3-5 days at which point the dragon would respawn and deny further access.
5) Travel. This needs to be hammered out in detail. Allow players an opportunity to unlock shortcuts or back door entrances. This could be on a server level, or individual "passport" level. Acquiring mounts should be a big deal -- I want SoW and similar spells to be extremely valuable all the way to at least level 35. They would still be valuable beyond that, but early on, they are critical.
6) Competitions: Let's say we have a Coliseum -- create leaderboards or ladders for clear times and/or the total amount of wave clears. Introduce fishing tournaments. Allow players to play card games or board games at innes/taverns for fun, but also have some sort of monthly regional tournament with a purse up for grabs.
7) Acclimation: We already know about the forge in Amberfaet. More of this please.
8) Deity Favor: I'd like to see a variety of ways for our characters to please their gods in an effort to earn their favor. Some could be subtle such as killing certain mob types or making sacrifices at an altar. Others could be based on the choices we make in a variety of different situations such as our standing with various factions, what NPC's we decide to interact with, how many people we save/rescue/assassinate when given the opportunity, or how committed we are toward acquiring relics/artifacts/tomes for a specific curator.
9) Decisions, decisions, decisions: Do we vanquish a certain insect to the point of extinction at the request of a local farming population, or perhaps find a way to relocate them to a different environment in order to preserve their species? Maybe certain wildlife is considered a pester to civilized areas, but they could provide some sort of boost to the growth of a lush jungle or illumation of a dark cave? Ogbah the ogre needs help ... he makes a good case. Depending on your choices, he delivers on the promises he made should you offer to help him. In other cases, perhaps he betrays you and becomes a menace to society, empowered by whatever it was that you helped him acquire. Do you let him wreak havoc, or dispose of this newfound foe that you just helped realize his power/potential?
10) Guilds: I would like to see a way to meaningfully progress our guilds. Not only their status and perks, but their functionalities as well, such as building larger outposts or establishing trade havens. Perhaps the "free" UI features such as the MotD, amount of rank names and permission settings are something that have to be unlocked after getting to a certain level. Beyond that, I'd like to see guild emblems for our cloaks and the ability to expand how many guild vault tabs we can have and their maximum capacity.
11) Rites of Passage: We don't have a ton of information on this yet, but everything about it should be applied toward this idea of "new challenges."
12) Progeny: Same as above -- let this be meaningful, but do so in a way that doesen't make it feel mandatory. Here is a quote from Jimmayus that discusses an angle that I am very much in favor of:
"I think we're overthinking all of this. Progeny system is fine with literally any bonus as long as the caps for an individual character are uniform. Personally I'd just introduce an AA system that begins at max level, then allow you to just retire the character and spend exp proportional to what you spent to level it into AAs at level 1. Max level character is the same but the levelling process is expedited by having AA stats earlier.
Add to that certain non-story mode obtained zone unlocks (i.e. you make this key in a side questline to unlock dungeon backdoor) can be passed down hereditarily (such that you don't need to reobtain key from questline, redoing quest just makes redundant key) and you're good to go.
Maybe you have new portraits for progeny and bam, done. Literally all of that is enticing in one way or another over making a brand new character and none of it requires progeny. Hell I'd think such a system would be pretty great."
I put this list together pretty quick and there are still a ton of options out there on how to expand upon it further. Immersion is a word that I see tossed around all the time on this forum ... let it be the guiding principal for these new/innovated challenges. No more hand holding, no more freebies. For the earlier levels, there should obviously be some features hard-coded into the game that can help newbies figure out their way. As they progress though, let them earn their way. The world of Terminus can feel very real, and the progression of our characters/guilds be truly meaningful -- let's realize this in a way that the challenges are appropriate for the rewards given. Once we get that out of the way, the rest is icing on the cake.
Idrial said:Honestly, when I look at the debates here on maps and auction houses and other things all I see in my mind is monty python:
MP: Aye. In them days, we'd a' been glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.
GC: A cup ' COLD tea.
EI: Without milk or sugar.
TJ: OR tea!
MP: In a filthy, cracked cup.
EI: We never used to have a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
GC: The best WE could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
TJ: But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
MP: Aye. BECAUSE we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, 'Money doesn't buy you happiness.'
EI: 'E was right. I was happier then and I had NOTHIN'. We used to live in this tiiiny old house, with greaaaaat big holes in the roof.
GC: House? You were lucky to have a HOUSE! We used to live in one room, all hundred and twenty-six of us, no furniture. Half the floor was missing; we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of FALLING!
TJ: You were lucky to have a ROOM! *We* used to have to live in a corridor!
MP: Ohhhh we used to DREAM of livin' in a corridor! Woulda' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woken up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House!? Hmph.
EI: Well when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a piece of tarpolin, but it was a house to US.
GC: We were evicted from *our* hole in the ground; we had to go and live in a lake!
TJ: You were lucky to have a LAKE! There were a hundred and sixty of us living in a small shoebox in the middle of the road.
MP: Cardboard box?
TJ: Aye.
MP: You were lucky. We lived for three months in a brown paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six o'clock in the morning, clean the bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down mill for fourteen hours a day week in-week out. When we got home, our Dad would thrash us to sleep with his belt!
GC: Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!
TJ: Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.
EI: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, (pause for laughter), drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing 'Hallelujah.'
MP: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.
ALL: Nope, nope..
HAH! I think to play this game there should be no way of buying and selling at all; my character should be totally unable to work pen and paper to sketch out where he's been in the super dangerous world (because after all, why on earth would anyone do THAT?); there should be no chat outside voice range; it should be pitch black all the time; people should only play with all their fingers and toes cut off, blindfolded, naked and constantly showered with freezing water. On a 24400 V2.4 modem. That's how it was in the gold old days.... Otherwise.... where's the challenge?
Times have moved on since 1999. I want NEW challenges rather than re-living the basic challenges of the past - which primarily existed because this type of game was new and developers didn't know how yet. There are always super suggestions for new things from the communities on all new games, why do we focus so much on re-creating past challenges?
LOL!! that seems to be the case sometimes with us "old schoolers" march 20 miles to school in a blizzard on our knees with no mittens! hehehe Well done. :)
I think a blend of new and old ideas is ideal.. Older MMO values gone missing, is the basis of Brad and team creating Pantheon in the first place. So some of those old values a lot of us miss. Combine that with the fact they are adding in brand new features with modern graphics, we have something pretty dang cool to play for awhile.
Nandor said:i can see your point. and i am not against new challenges. i hope there will be new systems/new ideas/new challenges all over Terminus.
still i think it's reasonable to ask the question: what was better in the past? what really was an improvement and what was not? since with going new ways, not everything might have been for the better. in my opinion, if newer mmorpgs developed into the wrong direction (which i think they did), it's not a bad idea to go a step backwards.
Oh, absolutely. Some things have I agree definitely gone too far the other way, and I'm not for a minute advocating care bear type approaches of some more modern games; and I agree with you we should look at old and new and evaluate rationally. It was the maps debate that triggered this post for me. While GPS minimaps and pointers are clearly un-necessary, to remove maps altogether I think is a little of an over-reaction the other way. But I don't want to turn this into a maps discussion, there's a thread for that already. I'm just keen to keep the pendulum in the middle, generally speaking.
I think this is the comic you're looking for. :)
Everyone might claim to want change. Very few (if any) are willing to change.
Even the slightest changes to terribly bad mechanics are met with illogical opposition on these forums and the pantheon subreddit. All the things that moved the genre forward and removed so much toxicity (that still exists today in EQ1) from the 1996-2002 era of MMO's? Many want no part of it. They WANT the bad old days, for some insane reason. They WANT to negatively affect the gameplay experience of other paying customers, without consequence to themselves.
I don't understand, and I don't want to understand, but there it is. Even the concept of there being a grey area between some black and white MMO mechanics? NOPE. Some are unwilling to concede, even slightly, that some games actually did it better and should be emulated. /shrug
GIve me fun, innovative, and challenging any day over the rose colored blinders of the past.
Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better. There's no need to change the formula, if a game works don't break it, and if you add something new to it, make sure it doesn't break or takes away from the games foundation.
That's why the foundation of most sports doesn't change, or chess, or most other games, the core of the game is kept the same, and new things, that don't interfere with those core foundation are added.
I believe Pantheon is doing the same, keeping the solid core components from Old school MMORPGS, and adding new features that don't break or diminish those core features. There will be stuff you don't like, there will be stuff I don't like, just deal with it, and play the game that VR wants to create.
jpedrote said:Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better. There's no need to change the formula, if a game works don't break it, and if you add something new to it, make sure it doesn't break or takes away from the games foundation.
That's why the foundation of most sports doesn't change, or chess, or most other games, the core of the game is kept the same, and new things, that don't interfere with those core foundation are added.
I believe Pantheon is doing the same, keeping the solid core components from Old school MMORPGS, and adding new features that don't break or diminish those core features. There will be stuff you don't like, there will be stuff I don't like, just deal with it, and play the game that VR wants to create.
Just because it's old also doesn't mean it's better. That's why absolutely everything about sports cars evolves over time. But my point here isn't about VR or the game, it's about the community and what we ask for.
Idrial said:Just because it's old also doesn't mean it's better. That's why absolutely everything about sports cars evolves over time. But my point here isn't about VR or the game, it's about the community and what we ask for.
Well sports cars cannot be compared to games, sports cars revolve around efficient and performance that's why the older version were left behind and are no longer used, games revolve around entertainment and a core set of rules that makes you play a certain way, that's why breaking the core foundation that makes the game work is not a good idea.
jpedrote said:Idrial said:Just because it's old also doesn't mean it's better. That's why absolutely everything about sports cars evolves over time. But my point here isn't about VR or the game, it's about the community and what we ask for.
Well sports cars cannot be compared to games, sports cars revolve around efficient and performance that's why the older version were left behind and are no longer used, games revolve around entertainment and a core set of rules that makes you play a certain way, that's why breaking the core foundation that makes the game work is not a good idea.
There are some huge companies in the past who were once dominant in their industry, but due to their inability to adapt to modern times and demands, they have disappeared. Look at Blockbuster for example. This is a company that was 100% based on entertainment, but they failed to evolve their company and their monolithic empire crumbled to shambles. Other companies include Kodak, Borders, Sears, Hummer, Blackberry and many others. My point is not to say that Pantheon has to evolve in every way imaginable, but it's important that they stay somewhat modern. We have busy lives and have grown accustomed to on-demand resources and knowledge. We enjoy super efficiency at the super markets, paying for our gas, delivering packages, checking into places, etc. Convenience is obviously very important to people because if something feels like an intentional time-sink, they literally feel like they are wasting their time. The key to getting this all right is to allow players to have meaningful downtime, and what is truly meaningful to someone will vary from person to person. It's definitely a beast to balance.
On the other side of the coin, companies are always battling to innovate. People like trying something new and different. VR wants to deliver an attractive product that can cater to both sides of the spectrum, and this is going to require some compromise from each party. Finding that middle ground is what it's all about, and some of the changes that have been proposed here in this thread would indeed feel meaningful. The foundation can only go so far, we still need a structure built on top of it, and if we're building something, we should probably use the best tools/technology/resources available. At this point, we already see that there are many ways that Pantheon is attempting to evolve this genre -- but truth be told, there is still plenty for us to learn and absorb. I think it's very important that people keep their expectations in check when it comes to what the finished product will look like. There are still plenty of surprises in store for us and more that will evolve along the way. As these are development forums, and they will be going away soon, I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to want to squeeze some input in while they still have a chance.
There are dozens of MMOs out there if you want quest hubs, flying, GPS maps, instances, level boosts, pay for gold and the ability to solo group mobs by yourself. I've spent a LOT of RL money on some of those games so that I could level boost toons to play with friends or buy epic gear off the AH and raid ASAP but those games are just not as satisfying in the end. I think that there is a market for a hardcore Korean level difficulty MMO sandbox that slowly matures over time. I'm glad that this won't be another game where death is meaningless, gear drops from the sky and folks can PL a toon to max level in a week or two. I would also ban addons if I could ha!
How about just create a highly challenging game all around and I'll be happy.
I think that's what has really been missing from the MMO genre for a long time... A hard game.
New types of challenges and old ones, just make this the most difficult MMO ever created and I'll play for a very long time.
Thanks,
Kiz~
Saicred said:I may be seeing this incorrectly, but this is what I've gotten from VR from day one of looking into Pantheon. They have said over and over again. This is a new game, with new ideas, and even though they are looking to bring back some of the old MMO style they aren't making EQ2017... Its a balance of old and new that Pantheon is trying to get right. It is up to us in Testing to help provide feedback on this, and make the game the best it can be.
You're totally right. It's very clear that Pantheon is already headed this direction and we've heard it many times before, but sometimes those that are new to the forums repeat it because it's their "day one" :)
oneADseven said:There are some huge companies in the past who were once dominant in their industry, but due to their inability to adapt to modern times and demands, they have disappeared. Look at Blockbuster for example. This is a company that was 100% based on entertainment, but they failed to evolve their company and their monolithic empire crumbled to shambles. Other companies include Kodak, Borders, Sears, Hummer, Blackberry and many others. My point is not to say that Pantheon has to evolve in every way imaginable, but it's important that they stay somewhat modern. We have busy lives and have grown accustomed to on-demand resources and knowledge. We enjoy super efficiency at the super markets, paying for our gas, delivering packages, checking into places, etc. Convenience is obviously very important to people because if something feels like an intentional time-sink, they literally feel like they are wasting their time. The key to getting this all right is to allow players to have meaningful downtime, and what is truly meaningful to someone will vary from person to person. It's definitely a beast to balance.
On the other side of the coin, companies are always battling to innovate. People like trying something new and different. VR wants to deliver an attractive product that can cater to both sides of the spectrum, and this is going to require some compromise from each party. Finding that middle ground is what it's all about, and some of the changes that have been proposed here in this thread would indeed feel meaningful. The foundation can only go so far, we still need a structure built on top of it, and if we're building something, we should probably use the best tools/technology/resources available. At this point, we already see that there are many ways that Pantheon is attempting to evolve this genre -- but truth be told, there is still plenty for us to learn and absorb. I think it's very important that people keep their expectations in check when it comes to what the finished product will look like. There are still plenty of surprises in store for us and more that will evolve along the way. As these are development forums, and they will be going away soon, I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to want to squeeze some input in while they still have a chance.
You’re looking at this from a business stand point, blockbuster is in the entertainment business yes, but it didn’t die because movies stopped being entertaining, it died because of online streaming and easier accessibility of movies, and that’s only related to marketing and smart evolution, at the end of the day, if blockbuster had updated it’s ways the core of the company would still be the same, sell or rent movies.
That’s why I used sports for a reference, like football, it’s been basically the same for 100’s of year, there a pitch, 1 ball, 1 goallkeepers and players 10 players on each side you can only play with your feet and the ball needs to stay inside the lines, the goal is to put the ball in the back of the net. None of these things changed with time, some minor rules where change, but nothing major. Videogames of course are a completely different beast, but the core of a game should not be messed with.
I agree that Pantheon needs to stay modern, but not by changing the core of the game to please a larger crowd in an attempt to corner the MMO market. That’s something that VR said they won’t do, and I trust them on that. If Pantheon has 1 million subs (I think it will happen, pretty please :) ) it will have been a monolithic success, and more than enough to keep the game running for years, so I don’t see the need to make a game for the masses, they have their target audience, and should make the best game possible for that target audience, (basically don’t try to be wow and please every type of player).
Yes we have very busy lives, but you have to remember that this is a video game, something you’re playing to pass the time, it’s a hobby for many people. Even though convenience and accessibility is is king is real life it doesn’t mean that the same mind-set needs to be applied to game, you play a game to escape from reality, be entertained, waste time, and accomplish something.
I completely agree that they need to stay on top of the technology and tools that are on their disposal, now more than ever graphics mater a lot for that first impression, (I personally don’t care about graphics but it’s really good for the company in financial terms, if they have visually appealing graphics) and the visual improvements are coming along nicely, I’m really excited to see what the finish product is.
TLDR: Don’t change too much from the oldschool mentality, and make sure the changes that you make don’t ruin the experience that the game is trying to create.
edit: added the quote.
Stuff i dont like about modern iterations of mmo are basically the things that remove competition in pve.
Death just costs 20 seconds time getting some rare drops is easy as hell epic too, lvling up takes you 3 days to max lvl and there are about 5000 items that drop on your way to max in thoose 3 days you just jump from quest hub to quest hub and are basically an exact copy of another player who did the exact same routeYou go visit an AH and sell your better stuff of thoose 5000 items to earn some money and complete your sets for you character.
Basically you get all the stuff you ever wanted in no time. The difficulty slider is on very easy and game producers tend to even skip the holy trinity to make it even easier and more accessible.
You dont have to talk to anyone youre auto grouped your auto teleported to a dungeon where you just zip thru with 4 or so other dps classes everyone just pushes attack keys and stuff dies left and right.
At the end everyone gets theyre own loot which is generated random for everyone. And you just beat some epic dungeon with 4 dps classes and pushing attacks while jumping left and right to avoid attacks.
To blow of steam you join some pvp instances where some ppls with 3000000 hps gear kill ppls with 500 hps until the game matching gets more balanced and then the 3000000hps guys fight vs 2900000 to 3100000 hps guys and get bored :) .
Sure it has a certain difficulty but theres no depth i recognize vs old school games.
Where death was annoying, stuff was rare , you couldn lvl up to max in 3 days, races mattered classes mattered group play was more then just 4 dps, everyone had theyre unique gear since it didn come from some quest lines. Gameplay was actually (hard) or should i say it consumed way more time to reach your goal. Since (hard) doesnt exactly explain it. And if some unique spot was camped you couldn just open a new instance to get your dream item in no time at all.
Todays game developers seem to listen to complains like lvling is too slow, death does sting too much, and i cant get my loot because another player camps it , or i cant find groups fast enough or there not enough quests not enough loot this race is too strong this class is too strong in pvp.
But if you fix all thoose oh so called problems in a game you take away all of the things that made the game actually fun. And able to last for along time while building a community that cares for the game.
You create a short lived fun for new players world till they see all the mechanics in a clear light and get bored. Not all things should be fixed there has to be the bad to enjoy the good.
I like new challenges as well a new world new races with cool racials, new spells and abilities, stats and gear that matters and the best of it should be pretty rare and hard to get and if it looks nice even better. What i like most if there is alot of mystery in a game stuff like secret doors rare spawns unique drops special events and so on ....but it better is not easily discovered i would kinda make it change locations in a pattern noone can analyze easily or ever at all. To keep the mysteries in game.
Ondark said:Stuff i dont like about modern iterations of mmo are basically the things that remove competition in pve.
Death just costs 20 seconds time getting some rare drops is easy as hell epic too, lvling up takes you 3 days to max lvl and there are about 5000 items that drop on your way to max in thoose 3 days you just jump from quest hub to quest hub and are basically an exact copy of another player who did the exact same routeYou go visit an AH and sell your better stuff of thoose 5000 items to earn some money and complete your sets for you character.
Basically you get all the stuff you ever wanted in no time. The difficulty slider is on very easy and game producers tend to even skip the holy trinity to make it even easier and more accessible.
You dont have to talk to anyone youre auto grouped your auto teleported to a dungeon where you just zip thru with 4 or so other dps classes everyone just pushes attack keys and stuff dies left and right.
At the end everyone gets theyre own loot which is generated random for everyone. And you just beat some epic dungeon with 4 dps classes and pushing attacks while jumping left and right to avoid attacks.
To blow of steam you join some pvp instances where some ppls with 3000000 hps gear kill ppls with 500 hps until the game matching gets more balanced and then the 3000000hps guys fight vs 2900000 to 3100000 hps guys and get bored :) .
Sure it has a certain difficulty but theres no depth i recognize vs old school games.
Where death was annoying, stuff was rare , you couldn lvl up to max in 3 days, races mattered classes mattered group play was more then just 4 dps, everyone had theyre unique gear since it didn come from some quest lines. Gameplay was actually (hard) or should i say it consumed way more time to reach your goal. Since (hard) doesnt exactly explain it. And if some unique spot was camped you couldn just open a new instance to get your dream item in no time at all.
Todays game developers seem to listen to complains like lvling is too slow, death does sting too much, and i cant get my loot because another player camps it , or i cant find groups fast enough or there not enough quests not enough loot this race is too strong this class is too strong in pvp.
But if you fix all thoose oh so called problems in a game you take away all of the things that made the game actually fun. And able to last for along time while building a community that cares for the game.
You create a short lived fun for new players world till they see all the mechanics in a clear light and get bored. Not all things should be fixed there has to be the bad to enjoy the good.
I like new challenges as well a new world new races with cool racials, new spells and abilities, stats and gear that matters and the best of it should be pretty rare and hard to get and if it looks nice even better. What i like most if there is alot of mystery in a game stuff like secret doors rare spawns unique drops special events and so on ....but it better is not easily discovered i would kinda make it change locations in a pattern noone can analyze easily or ever at all. To keep the mysteries in game.
Sums up perfectly what I feel about the genre nowdays. Nice one! Apart from not mentioning my dislike for gearscore and dps meters that is :) .
