Forums » Pantheon Classes

Class/race restrictions

    • 126 posts
    November 18, 2017 2:06 PM PST

    Beefcake said:

    Overall, I think ANY RACE should be able to play a warrior.

    +1. in general i would prefer no or very few restrictions on class/race. i understand the troubles of creating an infrastructure for each class in each city, but that could be fixed  by moving start city to a different race. or just don't have it, and let people who want a strange combo deal with the problems of not having it available at their start town (in that case give a warning at char creation).

    • 2476 posts
    November 20, 2017 3:45 PM PST

    Wall said:

    That is pretty interesting - it even sais 'Land' and 'Water' under the graphic - I wouldn't be surprised if they get some kind of water-travel benefit... Fins or something.  Why bother with the 'Land' 'Water' tags?

     

    An alternative possibility is that they start as mermaids - but at some level - perhaps the event described in the race's lore section occurs - and they gain legs and lose the fins..  

    A further alternative is that they dream of times past, where they have fins - perhaps they dream the event, and you get to play a part in it..

     

    Would be a stretch to me if they were dreaming of the event/past or players took part of it since this game is set 537 years after the event took place. I mean it's possible they have fins but wouldn't mesh well with them having had their bodies transformed forever and the whole "The Nythirian Red disappeared into the sea, searching for the means to return to true Myr form." But even that doesn't make sense to me since that implies maybe they have gills...but the oceans of Terminus are poison to them. 

    • 3247 posts
    June 26, 2019 1:22 AM PDT

    **Edit  --  wrong thread, duplicate post, please delete.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at June 26, 2019 1:30 AM PDT
    • 3247 posts
    June 26, 2019 1:23 AM PDT

    **Edit  --  wrong thread, duplicate post, please delete.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at June 26, 2019 1:30 AM PDT
    • 235 posts
    June 26, 2019 8:01 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Wall said:

    That is pretty interesting - it even sais 'Land' and 'Water' under the graphic - I wouldn't be surprised if they get some kind of water-travel benefit... Fins or something.  Why bother with the 'Land' 'Water' tags?

     

    An alternative possibility is that they start as mermaids - but at some level - perhaps the event described in the race's lore section occurs - and they gain legs and lose the fins..  

    A further alternative is that they dream of times past, where they have fins - perhaps they dream the event, and you get to play a part in it..

     

    Would be a stretch to me if they were dreaming of the event/past or players took part of it since this game is set 537 years after the event took place. I mean it's possible they have fins but wouldn't mesh well with them having had their bodies transformed forever and the whole "The Nythirian Red disappeared into the sea, searching for the means to return to true Myr form." But even that doesn't make sense to me since that implies maybe they have gills...but the oceans of Terminus are poison to them. 

    I wonder if this will be the (or a) source of Pantheon's version of a Kedge Keep type of area. More on topic, I could see the monk's abilities, specifically the kicks, change for underwater combat. Instead of a roundhouse kick, they might get a tail attack that generates a small whirlpool which slows, disorients or damages their target as debris is lifted off the sea floor. I could certainly see a tail move that helped them disengage or put some distance between themselves or their target quickly. Of course, this is assuming that underwater combat will be a thing. In some games, like DDO, you can't fight and swim at the same time. Overall, while it would be fun to experiment, I'm glad there are race/class restrictions. I think it helps establish identities.

    • 694 posts
    June 28, 2019 7:50 AM PDT

    letsdance said:

    +1. in general i would prefer no or very few restrictions on class/race. i understand the troubles of creating an infrastructure for each class in each city, but that could be fixed  by moving start city to a different race. or just don't have it, and let people who want a strange combo deal with the problems of not having it available at their start town (in that case give a warning at char creation).

    I think this would be a great deterrent instead of the hard "no" on class/race combos.  If a player knew that they would not be able to advance as readily as others, they would likely play another class as their main and maybe have the race/class that they "want" to play as an alt when they are able to provide transportation to the proper area or just twink to the point that skill/training is irrelevant at early levels. 

    With that said, this is why I think the race/class matrix being too strict will be a silent killer of this game if it isn't changed within the 1st year... people want to play what they "want" to imagine themselves playing as; and this will be exacerbated once players start to understand racial bonus combined with certain classes.  An analogy that comes to mind in regard to subtle indignation (natural in humans and usually subconcious) would be a young married couple where one spouse thinks they don't want to have children, then changes their mind years later but says they can deal with it... only to get divorced shortly after because the resentment slowly increased over time (sometimes without even realizing it because it was such a small issue originally that seemingly suddenly became a point of contention that was originally thought to be agreed upon long ago).

    add:  There's a reason "modern" MMOs have less strict race restrictions in our "modern" society (modernity).


    This post was edited by Darch at June 28, 2019 7:55 AM PDT
    • 59 posts
    July 13, 2019 5:15 AM PDT

    Darch said:

    letsdance said:

    +1. in general i would prefer no or very few restrictions on class/race. i understand the troubles of creating an infrastructure for each class in each city, but that could be fixed  by moving start city to a different race. or just don't have it, and let people who want a strange combo deal with the problems of not having it available at their start town (in that case give a warning at char creation).

    I think this would be a great deterrent instead of the hard "no" on class/race combos.  If a player knew that they would not be able to advance as readily as others, they would likely play another class as their main and maybe have the race/class that they "want" to play as an alt when they are able to provide transportation to the proper area or just twink to the point that skill/training is irrelevant at early levels. 

    With that said, this is why I think the race/class matrix being too strict will be a silent killer of this game if it isn't changed within the 1st year... people want to play what they "want" to imagine themselves playing as; and this will be exacerbated once players start to understand racial bonus combined with certain classes.  An analogy that comes to mind in regard to subtle indignation (natural in humans and usually subconcious) would be a young married couple where one spouse thinks they don't want to have children, then changes their mind years later but says they can deal with it... only to get divorced shortly after because the resentment slowly increased over time (sometimes without even realizing it because it was such a small issue originally that seemingly suddenly became a point of contention that was originally thought to be agreed upon long ago).

    add:  There's a reason "modern" MMOs have less strict race restrictions in our "modern" society (modernity).

     

    Darch, I have to disagree I think the possibility of being any race/class combination would become a game killer.  If they hold to the concept that allowing unusual combinations that allow players to make characters that are restricted in ways to make them weaker in fulfilling the class role they may become resentful.  Initially they may think it is fun to be unique, but as they level and get passed over for stronger char/class combinations they will begin to dislike the character and game.  Some may even lobby to have patches to make the classes more viable for the roles contrary lore of the game for conventional fantasy beliefs.

    Using the analogy of a couple that get married with the decision not to have kids proves the point that someone may start with a belief or desire that changes over time.  This would be akin to someone believing they don't mind having a character that is weak in it's role.

    I prefer the way Pantheon is doing it fromt he beginng, it is similar to one spouse stating from the beginning they cannot have children, so any change in desire made by the other spouse is their own fault for not appreciating the ramifications of who they married.

    If players are unhappy with the class/race combinations available it is better for them not to play the game than to get frustrated and complain about it later ruining the game for the rest of us.

    I feel like Pantheon is just being honest.

    • 35 posts
    July 14, 2019 6:34 PM PDT

    Tahoe said:

    Darch, I have to disagree I think the possibility of being any race/class combination would become a game killer. [...]



    I won't go into too much in details but saying Class/Race restriction would a game killer is definitely an overstatement. It may be annoying for some players, but if the game is fun enough it won't kill it.
    I like class restrictions, I think it adds immersion to the lore of the game.

    And yeah we all know those few players playing the most unconventional Class/Race combinaisons but in all MMOs I have played it's a vast minority, ... so I highly doubt it's a game killer.

    • 694 posts
    July 17, 2019 12:24 PM PDT

    Khraag said:

    Tahoe said:

    Darch, I have to disagree I think the possibility of being any race/class combination would become a game killer. [...]



    I won't go into too much in details but saying Class/Race restriction would a game killer is definitely an overstatement. It may be annoying for some players, but if the game is fun enough it won't kill it.
    I like class restrictions, I think it adds immersion to the lore of the game.

    And yeah we all know those few players playing the most unconventional Class/Race combinaisons but in all MMOs I have played it's a vast minority, ... so I highly doubt it's a game killer.

    I'm just seeing this quote from Tahoe, and I would like to add that I am not an advocate for all/all race/class.  I was being misquoted (or misunderstood) by Tahoe... I am for loosening some of the restrictions though because not having the option to play anything you want to imagine (RP) yourself being is a lost subscription.  If someone wants to be a Paladin, but hates dwarves and reluctantly plays a human, but really wants to be an elf, that's a player thats going to likely quit within a year unless the rest of the content is mindblowing.  There are far more negative outcomes to having overly strict race/class restrictions opposed to loosening the restrictoins.

    Add:

    Tahoe said:

    I prefer the way Pantheon is doing it fromt he beginng, it is similar to one spouse stating from the beginning they cannot have children, so any change in desire made by the other spouse is their own fault for not appreciating the ramifications of who they married.

    Divorce in this analogy = lost subscriptions, and this would (or should) absolutely end in divorce... and likely does, because people think they can deal with something - until they actually have to deal with it and discover that there are other options.

    add:  Also in the analogy, one spouse is saying they don't "want" children not that they "can't have children" (because they can loosen the restrictions - very easily).  They'll likely have children later, after they have enough divorces.  


    This post was edited by Darch at July 17, 2019 12:38 PM PDT
    • 238 posts
    July 17, 2019 6:38 PM PDT

    I'm still caught up on how the Dark Myr can't be Paladins, but yet they can be Clerics. Especially when its been said by devs that Pantheon's version of the Paladin is much more of a retribution-esque class, and of 'taking up the sword' so to speak (unlike other games and lore that have Paladins as always being this super holy & noble stereotype).

    • 35 posts
    July 17, 2019 7:52 PM PDT

    Darch said:

    Divorce in this analogy = lost subscriptions, and this would (or should) absolutely end in divorce... and likely does, because people think they can deal with something - until they actually have to deal with it and discover that there are other options.

    add:  Also in the analogy, one spouse is saying they don't "want" children not that they "can't have children" (because they can loosen the restrictions - very easily).  They'll likely have children later, after they have enough divorces.  



    I think this analogy was too much, so I don't want to go into Class restriction = deciding having children in your marriage, ... Let leave this on the side.

    I don't want strict restriction either, but the Ogre rogue is a good example of lore/general idea of what makes sense in terms of class/race combinaisons.
    The Paladin is so far the only example with only 2 possible races. I personally like that certain classes have very restrictive like that but that is just personal taste. I think it fits the Paladin Lore being very restrictive and only part of certain cultures of specific races. And Human is the most neutral race so it's pretty inclusive.

    If someone doesn't like playing specific races there is enough choices with other class/race combinaisons for you.
    I don't think this will end up in lost sub either. If player like the game they'll play something they like. If they don't they'll stop but you already know what's available before buying the game so if that is a game killer you don't buy the game to start with. And I have never seen that as being such a difficult barrier.

    "If I can't be an elf Paladin, I won't play the game!". I mean fair enough there are plenty of other games were you can be an elf paladin... (elf or whatever else)
    In % of how many player will be like that? I honestly think this is vast minority.


    This post was edited by Khraag at July 17, 2019 8:15 PM PDT
    • 694 posts
    July 18, 2019 8:07 AM PDT

    Khraag said:

     

    I don't want strict restriction either, but the Ogre rogue is a good example of lore/general idea of what makes sense in terms of class/race combinaisons.
    The Paladin is so far the only example with only 2 possible races. I personally like that certain classes have very restrictive like that but that is just personal taste. I think it fits the Paladin Lore being very restrictive and only part of certain cultures of specific races. And Human is the most neutral race so it's pretty inclusive.

    I can absolutely agree with this.  I'm with @Fragile in regard to the Paladin not being allowed to the Dark Myr though.  I would also like to have some kind of restriction on the human too... anything.  Humans being allowed to be everything really ruins the whole "exclusivity" idea for me.  If you're going to have "strict" race/class restrictions, why allow one race to be everything?  If your answer is "lore" see @Fragile's post about Dark Myr Paladins.

    • 35 posts
    July 18, 2019 11:17 AM PDT

    Darch said:

    I can absolutely agree with this.  I'm with @Fragile in regard to the Paladin not being allowed to the Dark Myr though.  I would also like to have some kind of restriction on the human too... anything.  Humans being allowed to be everything really ruins the whole "exclusivity" idea for me.  If you're going to have "strict" race/class restrictions, why allow one race to be everything?  If your answer is "lore" see @Fragile's post about Dark Myr Paladins.



    Yeah I agree with that, I'd rather see the Dark Myr being able to be paladin instead of the Dwarves and I would also like to see the human not being able to have access to some classes.
    I actually was expecting to see human not being able to have access to everything until I checked the Class/Race Table.

    I guess they wanted to have one generic race to try and have anyone be able to play any class with the most neutral race possible.


    This post was edited by Khraag at July 18, 2019 11:21 AM PDT
    • 42 posts
    October 10, 2019 11:24 AM PDT
    Keep in mind two important reasons for racial restrictions:
    • Less testing is required, resulting in a slightly sped-up launch
    • It makes it easier to add new content later by removing some of the restrictions in future expansions.

    Personally, I would prefer no restrictions at all
    • 7 posts
    October 13, 2019 11:57 PM PDT

    Why are people going in to this so hard with TLDR posts? This is pretty simple topic..

     

    Class restriction exists because for the Lore. If something in Lore and race+class combo doesnt make sense then talk about that.

     

    Also letting ppl pick any class+race combo is part of the "accessibility" that has ruined all modern MMORPGs

     

    So big fat NO to giving the choise to pick anything.

     

    Lore matters. restricted accesibility matters.

     

    Want to pick any race+class combo? Go play one of those shitty modern games.

    • 694 posts
    October 14, 2019 4:51 PM PDT

    Some people are simply listing their preferences (which we all paid to do).


    This post was edited by Darch at October 14, 2019 4:54 PM PDT
    • 323 posts
    October 15, 2019 3:47 AM PDT

    I'm all for the restrictions, but they all have to make sense and honestly sometimes i'm a bit confused: so gnomes can't be tanks - makes perfect sense - they are small and them tanking a dragon would be funny but unrealistic as hell, but then how the hell halflings can be one - they are even "skinnier" (not that gnomes have skin, but whatever) than gnomes with same height - gnomes at least could have lore friendly reason to be one as their energy would make protective barrier around them. Another thing is druid for Archai, lack of paladin for DarkMyr and even more astounding lack of Shaman for them (seriously I would assume that water creatures would have access to class which can among other things shape water - possibly with bonus to water boons and banes and penalty to fire ones).

    • 167 posts
    October 16, 2019 8:03 AM PDT

    I am all for class restrictions! For me the ability to make any class with any race, is akin to all classes performing any role.


    This post was edited by arazons at October 16, 2019 8:04 AM PDT
    • 3247 posts
    October 16, 2019 10:27 AM PDT

    I love it when people try to cite lore as a valid reason for race/class restrictions.  Are we talking about the same lore that suggests that certain races hate each other, which is also backed up by faction?  Kind of funny when lore justifies "Eh, it doesn't really 'make sense' for Ogres to be Bards" but not "Dark Myr have despised Elves for hundreds of years" in the context of gameplay and player choice.  Lore is an awful excuse for these restrictions, especially when there is no consistency in the logic.  Lore prevents me from making a unique character that I want to roleplay because of history and tradition, but doesn't prevent races of opposing factions from grouping, being best friends, getting married, or sacrificing their lives for each other.  A Halfling that gets married to a Skar is a lot more realistic than a Halfling becoming a Paladin, right?  Even though hunting wraiths is part of their custom and tradition?  Riiiiight.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at October 16, 2019 10:34 AM PDT
    • 35 posts
    November 26, 2019 12:10 PM PST

    oneADseven said:

    I love it when people try to cite lore as a valid reason for race/class restrictions.  Are we talking about the same lore that suggests that certain races hate each other, which is also backed up by faction?  Kind of funny when lore justifies "Eh, it doesn't really 'make sense' for Ogres to be Bards" but not "Dark Myr have despised Elves for hundreds of years" in the context of gameplay and player choice.  Lore is an awful excuse for these restrictions, especially when there is no consistency in the logic.  Lore prevents me from making a unique character that I want to roleplay because of history and tradition, but doesn't prevent races of opposing factions from grouping, being best friends, getting married, or sacrificing their lives for each other.  A Halfling that gets married to a Skar is a lot more realistic than a Halfling becoming a Paladin, right?  Even though hunting wraiths is part of their custom and tradition?  Riiiiight.

    +1

    The idea of limiting a class to a race is just out-dated. Now some being better suited towards a role? ABSOLUTELY. That just makes good sense. But let that be reflected in their racial stat bonus, extra racial abilities/modifiers, etc. Too many restrictions make for a very vanilla race/class combo ("looking for healer of race/combo!"), which makes for a very vanilla world. Pantheon should be anything but vanilla.

    Everyone wants immerision (man that word is thrown around wayyyy too much), but wants to be able to ignore it when inconvenient or disagreeable for them.

    • 1653 posts
    November 26, 2019 12:27 PM PST

    I don't understand, how can a race/class matrix be "outdated" ? In this regard, a game emphazing grouping is outdated, a game with meaningfull travels is outdated. Not liking it doesn't make it outdated and we can easily see it's close to 50/50 in that regard.

    • 1331 posts
    November 26, 2019 12:49 PM PST

    Joppa spoke about being in favor of the possibility of a wider range of race/class options to be unlocked through the use of progeny.

    Speculation on how it might work:  Play through as an Ogre...with the given, restricted classes.  Then play through as a bard...with the given, restricted races.  On the third play through you have access to Ogre Bard.  

    There are creative ways they can offer more race/class options.


    This post was edited by philo at November 26, 2019 1:12 PM PST