As we talked about in the most recent Q&A, we will eventually need to merge the PA and general forum communities. We would like community input on how we might do this. Currently, most of our interaction happens on the official Discord, but we know there are still plenty of people who prefer the forums, and it does work better for certain types of communication.
For those who use these forums, what are your needs and how can we better facilitate the flow of information here?
I am glad you are looking for feedback on this important topic. I think anyone not hiding under a rock notices a strong pull to Discord or other real-time communication platforms. They are amazing platforms and add a lot to a community that forums to be honest just sucked at. I am also really excited to see forums being added to Discord even if right now they lack a lot of what a good forum platform has. It is at least a start.
But the quality of the forums is the key to this conversation. One of the main reasons I spend as much time as I do on Discord is because Pantheon forums suck. The difficulty of formatting, adding images, etc. make sharing on the forums a chore. If this is resolved then forums and Discord can both bring to the table the things they shine at. Discord for real-time communication and Forums for structured environment and long form conversations.
To highlight a few advantages of forums:
Structured Discussions
Archived Content
Searchability via search engines
Long-form Content
Content Organization
I think merging the two forums will do a LOT to assist in the current fragmentation between forums and Discord. I find it a lot easier to find information on the PA forums than I do in the Discord. For example, if someone draws a player-made map, it would be a lot easier to find it in a forum thread that holds player-made maps than in a pin on a Discord.
If there's a way to make a Discord Bot that can read a patch notes section on the forums then auto post them into Discord and the website (or in any direction between the three), that could consolidate some of the work too. If there was a Discord Bot that could read the Dean's Beans Discord section and post them into a Dean's Beans thread on the forums, it would really help people have access to the information they need where they want to see it.
I do find Discord to be a super handy communication tool. So I'd like for it to exist too.
Susurrus said:I am glad you are looking for feedback on this important topic. I think anyone not hiding under a rock notices a strong pull to Discord or other real-time communication platforms. They are amazing platforms and add a lot to a community that forums to be honest just sucked at. I am also really excited to see forums being added to Discord even if right now they lack a lot of what a good forum platform has. It is at least a start.
But the quality of the forums is the key to this conversation. One of the main reasons I spend as much time as I do on Discord is because Pantheon forums suck. The difficulty of formatting, adding images, etc. make sharing on the forums a chore. If this is resolved then forums and Discord can both bring to the table the things they shine at. Discord for real-time communication and Forums for structured environment and long form conversations.
To highlight a few advantages of forums:
Structured Discussions
Archived Content
Searchability via search engines
Long-form Content
Content Organization
Susurrus really said it all. Right now we have a forum platform that is functionaly insufficient to the needs of an mmorpg community. I mean, when they launched, eq2 and VG forums were vastly superior to what we have now with the pantheonmmo.com forums. All the functionality outlined by Susurrus needs to be in, and will be, for sure, more and more required as the community grows and we get closer to launch. Also, when this game actually releases, one of the things that to me is absolutely essential for a game like this to thrive is the server specific forum sections. In my experience, that greatly aids in the long term health of each respective server, wrt the social aspect.
Discord is really cool for the reasons already stated, and the Discord threads feature is useful as well, but it just does not compare to what a fully fledged forum platform can provide.
If the budget permits, invest on the forums, especially as we get closer to launch.
Discord is a Data mine and chat service not a replacement for an official outlet discord can wipe your server tomorrow because they don't like your game a mod or what ever else they do not even tell you just this chat channel is banned.
There new force to give them a valid text number and change to the user ID has pushed many off there Chat service.
If you Can not maintain your own official forums, How you can be trusted to maintain a mmo ?
As Susurrus pointed out, forums are a structured environment for long form conversations and Discord is great for real-time conversations.
The Pantheon website forums should be the core information hub. I should be able to find all information about Pantheon on the website forums. If you want to have information also on Discord and social media, go for it. But the information hub or heart should be the forums.
As Susurrus and Kaynrath pointed out, the Pantheon forums in the current state is functionally insufficient and very frustrating.
As bad as the current state of the Pantheon forums are, finding information on Discord is worse. Discord is great if you are already on the inside of information, like a Pantheon team member or if you sit on Discord 24/7. I used to sit on Discord 24/7 for many channels, but I just don’t do it anymore.
There are many other reasons Discord sucks vs an Official Forum:
1. Discord politics and cliques. It’s far easier to feel alienated on Discord vs Forums.
2. Search engines. Forums are designed to find information. Discord is not. You cannot find Discord information on search engines. Forum information you can.
3. Synchronous communication. Forums don’t require you to be around when the conversation starts. Discord feels weird when you scroll up and see a past conversation that is interesting, but people are currently talking about something else. You’re just more likely to flow with current chat in Discord.
Forums are a repository of information. Discord is group texting.
IMO:
Agreed with Susurrus, as well.
But I will add this; In terms of a long term archival communication mechanism, forums are the best. Discord is ephemeral, Forums less so.
There is an explicit expectation that forums will persist throughout the life of a product, and they can be archived for posterity. Not so with Discord. As has been seen recently with several recent extremely public game failures, they did not have forums (a public record) and when they finished their scam/failure, the first thing they did was remove all access to Discord and close all their social media, and delete all their youtube or similar streaming services content.
As customers, as the community, we deserve a persistent written record that is searchable and archivable.
To that end, I would recommend a migration of all current posts into SMF, Vbulletin, Xenforo or several other extremely mature products. (and of course, user accounts)
OR
A migration of all accounts (only) to one of those new forum platforms, after integrating said product (SMF, Vbulletin, etc) into your existing IAM/SSO framework.
AND
An archive, marking read-only, & index/search of all existing forum posts. Retire the current (2024-02-29) forums. Publicly state & confirm they will be available forever, or as long as your company exists, for posterity.
For clarity, you should have an oauth2 SSO IAM framework, today. If you don't have one, you should either subscribe to one or create one/integrate with one. There are many inexpensive options if you lack the skill set in house to write your own or use Google's.
THEN, migrate all your existing services to it, including your new forums.
It has been over 6 years since these forums were promised to migrate "to the new version". That's about 5.9 years too long.
We understand that some technology issues are a challenge to overcome. Yet, in the intervening time, it would have been possible to MANUALLY migrate every single account, row by row, by cut and paste, into a new platform. That's how much time has passed.
Pull the pin, rip off the band-aid, drop the shoe, do whatever you have to, now is the time to make these changes. Now is ALWAYS the time to make these changes to modernize your authorization, authentication and identity management. If your plan is to be successfull, you really need to fix this.
I do not have any experience with the PA forum. I have heard they are better then the main forums. Before I go into to much details about what I would like or suggestion on what I think VR should do I want to quickly note I am far from an expert on what forums can do or what options are viable for VR. Ok with that aside this is my wish list/feedback.
I am not sure what most forum use these days or what options there are out there to choose from. The one I have some knowledge in is https://www.discourse.org/. It is a fee open-source software and has many of the features I would expect in a modern forum, all the ones listed above. It has a lot of customizations and I do not like how everyone uses it but I use it for https://the.fmsoup.org/ and while not perfect it is very functional.
IMO:
A must-have feature is also a real time as-you-type spell checker, for all composition windows/boxes (new post, edit, reply, etc).
I don't particularly care, personally, about being able to embed media, but allowing links might be ok.
I would like a generous post length/size, if text-only posts are permitted.
The lack of spell checking on these forums is just.. a glaring omission.
I would also recommend (if such features will be enabled) to only permit likes or similar positive reactions, not dislikes or any other negative reactions. And be very selective and prudent when it comes to the positives.. :)
And while client side filtering can always accomplish the same goal, having options within the platform to hide all embeds, profiles, pictures, or graphics of any kind is always a bandwidth/mobile friendly mode/feature-set.
There should be patch notes as well as an official service status and down time where if the servers are down we can come and if nothing else see yes its server side. well normally telling us when it will be down. when it is expected to be up agian. why patch ect. even if there is no other info just server is down looking in to it. maybe lock this part of the forum so it stays just official posts.
Susurrus said:
- Search Functionality: A robust search feature allows users to quickly find relevant threads and posts based on keywords. Specific to this community a search accessible from any forum page not just the home page.
I just want to add a couple of items to Susurrus' already comprehensive list:
1> The need for a dev tracker shortcut button/link as being part of the improved search functionality that's sorely needed.
2> The inclusion of a PvP section on the forums. IMO, the purpose of this section should not be to discuss whether PvP should or should not be in pantheon, or whether PvP is good or bad or any of those types of conversations that inevitability turn into anti-PvP vs pro-PvP BS discussions that goes nowhere. Rather, it must serve as a place where one can discuss rulesets, systems, features, and any truly relevant topics regarding what the PvP sphere should be like in Pantheon