So I was playing the FFXIV earlier today, did a 24 man raid, cleared it and one person refused to roll on loot, basically holding the other people hostage for 5 minutes waiting for the loot timer to run out. In my opionion this kind of person hoping to outwait folks for loot has a special place in hell waiting for them. I am fine with giving folks enough time to roll or whatnot, but 5 minutes just seems like an eternity when you just sit there waiting on a entitled douchebag. Hopefull Pantheon will be able to avoid things like this.
My biggest annoyance is how easy MMOs are. You level into godhood, often even being a god slayer. The world is built mostly for your max level power fantasy. You are the chosen one, just like everyone else. You are the world's hero, but can't afford rent?
The team focused side makes me hopeful Pantheon will be difficult, but my fear and pessimistic guess is the surface world and most content will be a joke we can train through at max level. The wizard capable of tanking an army of goblins as they train through the caves to get to the camp spot they want to farm for their alt.
I want us to be adventurers in a deadly world forced to work together. I don't want to be able to solo an army.
I will very deliberately be contrarian and say the inability to do solo content all the way to maximum level. Pantheon will be and should be a group-focused game but the subscriber base will be a lot larger if people that like things such as slow progress and real death penalty can be attracted and kept even if they prefer raids to ordinary groups - or prefer soloing to ordinary groups.Plus, it will attract and hold more groupies if they can log-on and make progress on days when they cannot group e.g. because of too many interruptions or not enough time in one fixed block. That there will be raids for that subset of the population is clear - that there will be viable solo play not just fairly irrelevent solo play so that they can say the game has it is less clear.
To be clear - solo content should be less rewarding so as not to give people an incentive to do things other than group. But it should be there.
To be clear - I agree with the basic MMO approach of not having any solo content in dungeons - my push has been and is solo content in landscape.
To be clear - by solo content I do not mean being able to do group content once one is 10 levels higher - I mean some content to be done at-level. Groups of mobs in part of the zone that can be solo'd - by any class not just by classes with special "cheat" abilities. Quests for soloers. Not long and complex and difficut to design quests necessarily. But quests that one character can do when he or she has nothing better to do. Find a missing child. Kill 10 wolves. Locate a missing item. Things that will not burden the development team but will make Terminus feel like a living world even when you aren't with 4 friends. Things that will let the anti-social (but subscription paying) gamers get to maximum level even though it will and should take twice as long as if they had grouped.
1. Bugs and/or exploits that go unfixed for months/years.
2. Developers that reuse the same models expansion after expansion just with different textures thinking that we wouldn't notice the shortcut. Don't be lazy.
3. Broken quests that go unfixed.
4. Characters that can solo very well and are also desirable in groups.
5. Mechanics introduced early in the game yet then get wholly ignored later on. Example: EQ1 had rabies early on but then it never appeared ever again.
6. Faction that is too easy to gain.
7. Lack of NPC density. I really do not like huge areas that are devoid of content. Empty space is a waste of that space. If you make a world, fill it with stuff to do.
I asked my wife for her list. Mine primarily is the dumbing down of gameplay with time. (I am looking at you SWtOR) or Vandaddy and the rabies example.
1: Built-in time-wasting. Crafting time-to-learn getting to month-long insanity (ESO). Drip feeding quests and having to retread the same ground repeatedly over long distances (LotRO).
2: Miscellaneous items in the world that are non-interactable. Say, ESO vs. WoW. (very unlikely in Terminus that we can interact with much)
3: This made me snicker. Having to kill rats, bats, and spiders at low level instead of something more meaningful. (hahaha)
4: LAAAAAG
(she is still going! but this is it for now)
I know that Pantheon has adressed some of the issues I have, but there was no restriction placed on what drives me crazy, so...
Bugs and broken content that doesnt get fixed because it is more important to introduce new content. Nope! Not when you are playing the broken content, it is not. Not when you spend hours getting to a point and find you cannot progress. Sooo frustrating and a waste of my time. I would like to see hot fixing of quests if at all possible.
Reuse of models makes some sense to me, but it does lead to a feeling of a smaller, less diverse world and does feel that developers havent put in as much work into an expansion as they could/should. Especially when it involves new lands or planes. If it makes sense for the story, then reusing models in an expansion is acceptable. However, if new content shoe-horns old models because it is easier or quicker, then this is taking players for a ride.
I dont have an issue with easy (initial) faction gain, I have an issue with easy realignment after you have chosen to go down a faction route. Yup there should be a way back, but no, it should not be as easy to reverse a faction. Also, not being able to understand the full implications of a faction choice before it is way too late is another one too. If the faction has a major impact on game play, it should be obvious what the choice means. Faction should be like xp in terms of gaining. Easy for the first couple of "levels", harder as you move up the ranks (and harder to reverse the faction gain too).
Quests that leave you with no indication of what to do next. Quests should at least offer a general idea of the next step (no, not hand holding). For instance: "The bow needs further processing." Huh? Really? Do I need some resources of some kind? Magic maybe? Do I need a higher crafting level before I can process it? What kind of crafting skill? So basically I have to rely on guesswork, luck or the internet to find out what I need to do? How about "The bow needs to be shaped and processed using the ancient ways.", this implies that you need to seek out very old knowledge of some kind. It also implies that these ancient ways maybe be lost to current bowyers but they might have an idea of where to look, or maybe a library can help, or an area populated by those from the earliest of times. It is a subtle difference, there is still no direct route to take, but there are hints on where you should be looking in without being specific. It is not a dead end.
Searching hundreds of books with no idea of what is in there. Open a book, read a bit, nope not this one, next book, open, read, nope. There needs to be a way to search for a topic or subject in libraries. Also not knowing if you have read a certain book or not leads to wasted play time.
Quests and/or tasks that tell you to do something in an area, have you return to the giver, only for them to say, "oh I also need xxx from there too". I dont mind lists of things to do, I do mind being drip fed them when there is no obvious plot requirement to do so. E.g. "I need some pelts from the valley." Off I trot, back I come and hand them in just to be told... "I also need some willow from the valley." Infuriating! If the NPC needs pelts and willow, then tell me at the outset.
Making questing obvious. I hate pointers that say "here is what you are looking for". When I play games that hand hold you, I find myself trying not to look at the compass bar or map just so I don’t know where the next icon is, just so that the game play feels less artificial.
Mounts and equipment that can be bought with real money that cannot be obtained through the actual game.
Places that are impossible to get to which are visually easy to get to. Getting to hard to reach places only to find, well nothing at all.
Lack of trails left by everything when moving through mud and snow.
Mobs that dont react when they are within ear shot or can plainly see what is happening. If it is obvious an NPC would react in reality, then it should in game.
Weird pathing of mobs and the like. When mobs disappear, running around like headless chickens (because of bad pathing mechanics) or through solid walls, only to reappear with half a world in tow.
Some of my gaming Pet Peeves.
1) Games that artificially alter your level / power based on your zone / area.
2) Every enemy being able to stun you.
3) Forced story arcs.
4) Weather inappropriate for the zone (eg: Rain in Desert).
5) Constant Obnoxious weather sound effects (Loud Looping Wind/Rain effects)
6) Plastic Bears. If quest says 'collect 10 bear meat' then every bear I kill should have some meat for me to collect.
7) Spell Fizzles. I don't like this as a game mechanic.
8) Zonelines not being clearly outlined or marked. If the game is going to make me load a new zone, I should be able to see where this will happen.
9) Ability Cooldowns being outrageously long just for the sake of being outrageously long.
10) Enemies who can walk to places you can't (like behind a zone line) follow. This includes glitches making enemies walk through walls or fall through the world.
11) Weapons Misses. A trained fighter swinging a sword wouldn't ever miss unless the enemy actively dodges. Dodges and Blocking obviously can still be a thing and cause a miss. But if the enemy does not avoid your swing it should hit every time. I'd rather Armor work as Mitigation of damage rather than Avoidance.
12) Timers saying 1 minute when it really means 1 min 59 seconds. Or saying 1 second when it really means 1.99 seconds.
13) Games that call themselves MMOs but are really just Single Player games in a Shared space.
I'm sure if I had more time I could think of some more, but those are what I came up with right now.
Artificial limitations.
Being told I can't wield this weapon or wear that armor because I'm not high enough level -OR- my class won't allow it. Look, I'm not saying that rogues should wear plate, or warriors should wear cloth, or gnome bards fishnet stockings. Or that the Sword of Awesomesauce or the Dagger of Proctology should be lethal for a low level character. BUT, I do think that if he/she/it can get to it, then they should be able to, at the very least, equip it. There should be deep penalties or missed bonuses for doing so. It shouldn't be great for them, or even good. But to simply not let them is asinine. If I want to be stupid, hat up with a mitre, a thong and some gardening shears, and wade into the fray, I should be able to.
Being told I can't access an area because I'm not high enough level or because I am too high a level. EQ has examples of both. Plane of Fear and Plane of Hate both had level 46 restrictions for entry. Lady Vox and Nagafen could not be attacked by higher than level 52. I get the reasons WHY those rules were implemented, but to me, there seemed like that could have been done a lot better. Like, it was a lazy approach. I'm all for keys, and attunement, and making quests to access high level areas, but simply putting a "You're not old enough" or "You're too old" sign on the door is just idiotic.
Being told I can't do more than one tradeskill because... well, the devs making the game don't want that. Look, I've played a lot of MMOs. And, by that very nature, I've also quit a lot of MMOs. Most of them, I quit because I simply ran out of things to do that I wanted to do. Allowing us to master all the tradeskills is something that kept me playing EQ for about half a year longer that I would have without that ability. It took a long time, and it was something I did almost exclusively on my own. I don't care if it takes a long time to do them all. I need something to do when I'm playing and I can't/don't want a group. But what I absolutely DO NOT want to do is have to level up several alts just so I can do all the skills. That's "no bueno". Alts, to me, are for storage. I don't want to spend hours playing another character just so I make a blacksmith.
Being told I can't complete a quest because it was an event that has already passed. Bang a Gong from WoW comes to mind. I had finished nearly the entire quest, but some other guild went and finished it before us. Hence, all that work went for naught. Was tough watching other people bang the gong, while I stood by thinking "Well, this sucks" very loudly. I may have said it verbally once or twice, I don't remember, there was a lot of crying, and I think I ate a whole box of Lil Debbie Oatmeal Pies. I'm not proud of that. Another such example... in EQ, the Wardens in the Sleeper's Tomb. Sleeper wakes up, the Wardens go away, and all the loot they had (gnomish illusion mask) went with them. OK, yes, it was a gnome illusion, but that's not the point. I wanted all the illusion masks. And now knowing I can't get one, I'm less likely to try to get the others. You feel like you're incomplete, and what's worse, that you'll never BE complete because you missed it. In other words, the completionist in me screams when I know that no matter what I do, I can't finish it. There's probably a deep seated psychological problem there, but I'm in denial. I don't care if I don't get the MacGuffin, or never even attempt to get the MacGuffin, but don't make me feel like I can't get the MacGuffin. It's demoralizing, and that's when I think about moving on.
~Hiwin
Vandraad said:3. Broken quests that go unfixed.
5. Mechanics introduced early in the game yet then get wholly ignored later on. Example: EQ1 had rabies early on but then it never appeared ever again.
7. Lack of NPC density. I really do not like huge areas that are devoid of content. Empty space is a waste of that space. If you make a world, fill it with stuff to do.
While you listed other annoyances / dissapointments these three also drive me crazy.
Having a quest that bugs out and you simply are left with people on the forums saying how it bugs out after one person completes it following a server restart. You think ok, its a bug, you hold off on completeing the quest for a while but after a month you move on from that area and eventually delete it. Months later on an alt the bug is still there!
The mechanics system are often ideas that push us to talk to other players. Games remove everything that isn't pure combat with instant gratification. LFG? Nah we have a global system now with instant teleports. Local banking and transporting goods? Nah we have global banks only to streamline trade. Mail is now instant and global no use pushing people to find eachother in the world.
The lack of NPCs or NPCs that do anything stands out so much. It completely breaks the verisimilitude. Id rather a giant object be there I can never enter. At least it wouldn't entirely break the realism. Seeing a huge town with 5 NPCs is frustrating but devs can throw in a line about how almost everyone died in a recent attack, throw in some coffins, you can make it work. Seeing a section of town with 20 NPCs staring into oblivion 24/7 unmoving and unresponsive to the world, to time... Please just block off that section of town, its clearly unfinished.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:7) Spell Fizzles. I don't like this as a game mechanic.
You take that back! Apprentice level mechanics you literally grow out of are fine. I would go around buffing people, handing out free conjurations, just to raise my skill levels so I wouldn't fizzle when I needed it. If you wanted to be a boring person and stay in a hole spamming a buff on yourself 10x, sit for 5 mins and repeat you could. I made friends directly from the mechanic. I can't say the same for things like afk swimming.
Vandraad said:1. Bugs and/or exploits that go unfixed for months/years.
2. Developers that reuse the same models expansion after expansion just with different textures thinking that we wouldn't notice the shortcut. Don't be lazy.
3. Broken quests that go unfixed.
4. Characters that can solo very well and are also desirable in groups.
5. Mechanics introduced early in the game yet then get wholly ignored later on. Example: EQ1 had rabies early on but then it never appeared ever again.
6. Faction that is too easy to gain.
7. Lack of NPC density. I really do not like huge areas that are devoid of content. Empty space is a waste of that space. If you make a world, fill it with stuff to do.
In addition to the above:
8. Mobs that doesn't factor weapon range (or in case of archers projectile arc) and can hit you even if you use environent to your advantage.
9. No difference between same level and class characters of different players (the more things to adjust (on top of player skill) the better - attributes, skills, perks, gear - preferably factoring not only level itself, but mainly time spent)
10. Single meta (both in term of stats and gear) for a class and maxed out chars looking exactly alike
11. Rediculous - not fitting the game costumes, mounts etc.
12. Pay2Win
13. No npc tactic differentiation and only progressively larger hp/def pool and dmg.
14. QTEs and requiring extremally good reflexes situations (that cannot be bypassed using other tactics)
15. Very limited character bag space and stash (in sp games i always use mods to get rid of this feature)/ expanding which cost real cash/premium currency
16. MMO games that make you go from quest to quest with zones that you never come back to when you finish said quests.
As the level cap increases over time, you get fewer and fewer zones that have level appropriate content. Causing you to have to take the same zone path and content when leveling alts. And early game zones become un- or under-utilized.
Weapon restrictions by class. If your life is threatened, and all that is nearby to protect yourself is a mace, even if you haven't ever used a mace before, you're going to pick it up and start swinging. You probably won't be very proficient, but you should be able to at least do a little damage and delay your inevitable demise by a few rolls. Maybe the non-traditional weapon choices are slower or more expensive to train.
Mostly meta stuff like
1. Pay 2 win
2. a game that allows a guild that causes mayhem/chaos on the server just for their own amusement and to block others from experiencing the game. EQ progression servers have this problem sometimes in the begining.
3. a game that confuses tedium for difficulty
4. games that don't care of their bot problems effectively leading to swarms of people going from node to node OR clearing an entire areas of mobs non stop (yes, real people can do it too, but its pretty obvious and excessive when they are bots)
5. gamebreaking bugs that go ignored ..ie places where you can fall through the earth, an item that boots you from the game, etc
other stuff
6. beakstriders not having beaks and zhevras not having hooves(I mean they have 4, you would think at least 1 of them would work)
7. ignoring someone for being obnoxious just to have them pop up on an alt to terrorize the zone a little longer
8. Super long cooldowns that I never end up using because I want to save it for the "right time" which almost never comes.
9. While I don't want a game that is on rails, I would like them to nudge me in a direction or 2 that I could do stuff in. even in EQ, the daily hot zone quest can get me started before I going to something else. I get bored quickly when games are *just* a sandbox. Too many choices that just lead me to choice paralysis heh.
10. having to eat food and drink water. give me some food/drink buffs or if you must have me eating/drinking to stay in tip top shape, make it automated and I will just fill up my food/drink slot.
When you reach higher levels and the group content is relagated to grinding. No raid like or story based encounters for single groups.
Not being able to equip items due to levels or skill. Just give me negatives or better yet, certain advantages of the item are only viable with those levels/skills, but the base item stats still adhere.
Hand holding quests. IE: Click flashing question mark for quest, follow line yellow glowing line to the objective, return to my flashing neon exclamation point to receive reward.
Mobs that just appear out of thin air. IE: orcs in East Commonlands (EQ1), have them spawn inside the tents and walk out to the campfire. Not just POP, "Here I am.", have some bushes or something they come through, so they don't look like they just appear out of thin air. Unless they are a wizard or magician, then they might be able to appear suddenly. :)
Invisible walls. When there is obviously something beyond where you are, but there is an invisible wall blocking you. Use landscape or terrain to create a barricade.
Doors in town that do nothing. Either all doors should open, or they shoudl be locked, but they should be interactable.
People who play their class in a unique way, but then decide to group with strangers using a playstyle that is detrimental to the group by ignoring their toolkit.
I'm not talking about someone like a dps not using the most optimal rotation or people not having the best in slot gear. I'm more thinking about a tank in leather armor because it looks better than heavy and a 2h weapon when their defensive class skills require a shield. Now the healer has a stressful time keeping them up and the puller can't make a single mistake because two mobs will wipe the group when ordinarily it's not a problem for an average group setup.
This is different than a group looking for CC and a rogue is like "hey, I've been focusing on gear/skills that use my CC flex role as my primary playstyle". This would actually be super cool to see and play with. Even the tank in the above scenario would be fun to have in a group if they joined as a dps that can off-tank in an emergency.
One RL example: I was healing a dungeon in FFXIV and the tank does a double pull, which is fairly standard. The mobs, however, are dying super slowly making my mana drop really low trying to keep the tank up. Monk is doing okay dps, which is cool. Then I noticed the black mage is only using ice spells (which are the weakest spells used to regernate mana before you go back to the strong mana-intensive fire spells). I ask them about it and they say "I want to be an ice mage." Well.. that was def one of the slowest dungeon runs I ever had in that game. Ignore half your skills when with friends at least.
Feasty - to me the classic example of what you say is the "battlecleric" that refuses to heal - or only heals when there is nothing nearby to hit. Nothing wrong with this when the group knows that the cleric is taking a dps role but too often the cleric never says a word and just ignores dying groupmates.
The constant gear swapping is extremely frustrating. Everyone and everything is throwing magic items at you because RPG means number go up right?
Caught a few fish? Have a magic fishing rod.
Killed a few wolves that were going after the sheep? This poor farmer has a swath of magic items to pick from for your trouble. Why? Because magic items are worthless in the world of course.
Just got a magic weapon? Well here is a magic weapon with the exact same damage but this one has a little INT on it.
You don't even need to repair your gear until around max level, just keep upgrading it every hour of gameplay.
Congrats on your super ultra legendary+ magic item. Its so good you will use it for 2-4 hours instead of 1-2.
Pay to win
Making the game easy mode
I'm sure there is more as far as game design, but I can't think of them at the moment.
Other than that, it's the things players do to gamify the game and seek to exploit the game that bothers me the most. Also, players just being trollish and inconsiderate. So many articifical things players do that affects how everyone plays the game ruins the game for me. The constant push for quality of life additions is a big turn off. Players wanting to always be optimal at the expense of goals set within the game. Ex. I used to love playing BGs in WoW. No matter what we played til the end of the match. Some of my most memorable times were when winning seemed hopeless and we pulled off a win by outsmarting an obvious stronger(stat and equipment wise) group. Now, if folks can't faceroll a win in the first 30 seconds, they just give up immediately and say, "Let Them Win".
Players being overly critical of other players who aren't min-maxing and using 'optimal' rotations and gear. Players doing speead runs just to mow down npcs and rush through everything. Basically you are not playing an MMO anymore, you are just using meta tactics to 'win'.
Thunderleg said:Mine primarily is the dumbing down of gameplay with time. (I am looking at you SWtOR)
Thank you Thunderleg!
I loved SWTOR when it first came out. I loved the skill trees and being able to dabble a bit in different trees. And what did they do, force you into specific lines and give you one choice from 8 (or 10) abilities every few levels. I left, came back again, and damned if they didn't do it again. Now with even less options!
Mal
Things i do not like?
* Automatic Elevators. They are a waste of time.
* Closed doors, mostly because it is only a decoration. SWTOR, i look at you! If there is a door then i want open it. :)
* Huge class inbalance because it will produce metas and is unhealthy for the game because it will force the players to do things, they propably do not like.
* Loading screens because you enter a zone or a building.
* Bots, which farm gold for RMTing.
* If a game has a story then i do not like when the protagonists/antagonists act very stupid.
* Fights, which are scripted and it is intended, that you lose. I look at you Final Fantasy 14 Online!
* Questdesign like "Collect ten bear teeths". And then only every 20th bear has teeth. xD
* Bad chat and bad guild features.
* Too long travel times. 15 minutes is OK. But more is waste of time.
* Invisible walls.
Cheers
