Forums » The Druid

Druid spells as shown in Nov 29 stream

    • 421 posts
    November 29, 2018 10:23 PM PST

    So these are the Druid abilities with details as shown in the Nov 29, 2018 stream. Here is the link to that Video:

    Sarcoth Druid PoV.

    So let's get into the abilities.

    First off, we know that there will be 'rare' spells that you can find out in the world that may replace your normal abilities and granting new effects not found on the base spell/ability. But we have been under the impression that there was not going to be spell 'ranks' as you level up that give you a slightly higher effect version of the same spell.

    But in the stream we can see that there appears to be several different abilities that have different names but the same effect, just with increased numbers and no new effects. This is basically like spell 'ranks' and means that as you level up you will just be replacing old spells that have become obsolete.

    This defeats the purpose of the 'Modifying Attribute' feature that is supposed to increase the effect of the ability as you gain stats (from level and gear) instead of giving you a new ability to get the higher effect.

    For example is the Insect Damage over Time spell line which has 4 different Ranks of the same ability each costing more mana. The damage is not listed, but we can assume each one does more damage than the previous. Yet it lists Modifying Attributes as Wisdom, Intelligence, and Consitution. Thus these abilities should scale in damage based on those stats. So why the need for Ranks?

    Anyway... on with the rest of the abilities.

     

    The Buff spells:

    Stamina and AC buff line:

    Imbue Trait: Grizzly Bear’s Resilience: 8 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (2s cooldown) ; Imbue the resilient nature of the Grizzly Bear into the target, increasing their Stamina (4) and Armor Class (50) and making them more resistant to Stun effects for 24 minutes.

    Imbue Trait: Great Bear’s Resilience: 10 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (2s Cooldown) ; Imbue the resilient nature of the Great Bear into the target, increasing their Stamina (6) and Armor Class (80) and making them more resistant to Stun effects for 24 minutes.

    Imbue Trait: Thunderpaw’s Resilience: 12 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (2s cooldown) ; Imbue the resilient nature of the Thunderpaw into the target, increasing their Stamina (8) and Armor Class (125) and making them more resistant to Stun effects for 24 minutes.

    Str + Dodge buff line:

    Imbue Trait: Tiger’s Claw: 8 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (2s cooldown) ; Imbue the strength and prowess of the Tiger into the target, increasing their Strength (4) and Dodge chance (6%) for 24 minutes.

    Imbue Trait: Lynx’s Claw Tooltip not shown.

    Health Regen + Healing Received buff line:

    Imbue Trait: Ashen Regeneration: 9 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (2s cooldown) ; Imbue the restorative nature of the Ash tree into your target, increasing their Health Regeneration by 30% and all healing they receive by 15% for 24 minutes.

    Imbue Trait: Oaken Regeneration: Tooltip not shown.

    Imbue Trait: Willow’s Regeneration: Tooltip not shown.

    Movement Speed Buff:

    Imbue Trait: Speed of the White Wolf: 10 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (2s cooldown) ; Imbue the White Wolf’s speed and agility into the target, increasing their Movement Speed by 50% for 36 minutes.

    Imbue Trait: Speed of the Black Wolf: Tooltip not shown.

    Imbue Trait: Speed of the Vale Strider: Tooltip not shown.

    Thorns effect spell line:

    Verdanfire Briars: 24 mana ; Self ; 20m Range ; 2s (3s cooldown) ; Grow a network of mystical briars around the members of your group that deal Nature damage to attackers.

    Verdanfire Thistles (Tooltip not shown) but I'm guessing this is a Rank of this 'Thorn' spell line.

     

    The Damage Spells:

    Root + DoT spell line:

    Greatvine Snag: 20 mana ; Offensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (3s cooldown) ; Cause powerful, thorn-covered vines to erupt from the ground and entangle the target, rooting them for 18 seconds and dealing Nature damage over time. This effect cannot be broken by damage. If Hirode’s Gaze is active on the target, this ability will reduce their Armor Class by 30% for the duration.

    Vinewoven Cage: 26 mana ; Offensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (3s cooldown) ; Cause powerful, thorn-covered vines to erupt from the ground and entangle the target, rooting them for 21 seconds and dealing Nature damage over time. This effect cannot be broken by damage. If Hirode’s Gaze is active on the target, this ability will reduce their Armor Class by 30% for the duration.

    Rockvine Tangle (Tooltip not shown) but due to name we can guess this falls into this same spell line.

    Direct Damage Verdanfire line:

    Verdanfire Bolt: 22 mana ; Offensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (3s cooldown) ; Hurl a bolt of pure Verdanfire at the target, dealing Nature and Fire damage.

    Verdanfire Dart: Tooltip not shown.

    Verdanfire Spear: Tooltip not shown.

    Verdanfire Arrow: Tooltip not shown.

    Lightning Direct Damage line:

    Call Lightning: 30 mana ; Offensive ; 20m Range ; Instant (30s cooldown) ; Call a bolt of lighting to strike the target, inflicting Shock damage in proportion to your level. If the target is Drenched, this ability will critically hit. Additionally, if Call lightning is used during a storm, the strike will inflict 100% more damage. Mod Attributes: WIS, INT, CON.

    Insect DoT line:

    Wasp Nest: 18 mana ; Offensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (3s cooldown) ; Summon a swarm of stinging insects that inflict Nature damage to your target every 3 seconds for 36 seconds. Mod Attributes: WIS, INT, CON.

    Angry Hornets: 24 mana ; Offensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (3s cooldown) ; Summon a swarm of stinging insects that inflict Nature damage to your target every 3 seconds for 36 seconds. Mod Attributes: WIS, INT, CON.

    Swarm: 30 mana ; Offensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (3s cooldown) ; Summon a swarm of stinging insects that inflict Nature damage to your target every 3 seconds for 36 seconds. Mod Attributes: WIS, INT, CON.

    Bee Hive (Tooltip was not shown) but due to the name we can guess this falls into this same spell line.

     

    Healing Spells:

    AoE Heal + AoE Damage:

    Warden’s Wildfire: 25 mana ; Self ; 20m Range ; 0.5s (1s cooldown) ; Animate 3 tendrils of Verdanfire that lash around you wildly, damaging any enemy and healing any group member they touch. These tendrils reach farther every second for the duration of this ability. Mod Attributes: WIS, INT, CON.

    Preserver’s Wildfire Tooltip not shown, but due to name we can guess it's this same spell line.

    Damage Absorb + Healing:

    Verdanfire Seed: 20 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; 0.5s (3s cooldown) ; Plant a mystical seed that absorbs up to 40% of the target’s Max Health in damage. When this amount is reached, the seed will bloom and heal the target for the amount it absorbed. Additionally, 20% of the effective healing the target receives will be refended to you as Mana. Only one seed may be active on the same target at a a time. Once the seed blooms, you may not cast this ability on the same target for 10 seconds.

     

    Hirode Abilities:

    Hirode’s Flame: 10 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; 1.5s (6s cooldown) ; Ask Hirode to release a surge of Verdanfire into the target, healing them for a moderate amount.

    Hirode’s Chrysalis: 34 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; 2s (30s cooldown) ; Ask Hirode to plant a mystical seed within the target. When this target takes damage that would kill them, this seed prevents their death and blooms into a protective chrysalis. While inside the chrysalis, target cannot be damaged and will emerge with X% of their Max Health and Mana restored.

    Hirode’s Shelter: 10 mana ; Defensive ; 20m Range ; Instant ; Ask Hirode to stand beside the target. While Hirode is near, all healing this target receives is increased by 25%. Additionally, this target’s actions will generate 50% less hate until you call Hirode back.

    Hirode’s Focus: 10 mana ; Self ; 20m Range ; Instant (30s cooldown) ; Ask Hirode to focus her attention on you for 30 seconds. In this state, Hirode will be able to amplify several of your abilities.

    Hirode’s Gaze Tooltip not shown.

     

    Invisibility spell line:

    Nature Shroud: 30 mana ; Self ; 20m Ranger ; 3s (3s cooldown) ; Gather energy from your surroundings to form a mystical cloak, making your group invisible to living, non-magical targets for 3 minutes. Using an ability or receiving damage will break the effect.

    Leaf Shroud: Tooltip not shown.

    Mantle of Leaves: Tooltip not shown.

     

    Two other abilities appeared in the spellbook but were not shown the tooltip:

    Bind Self
    Imbue Trait: Vale Hawk's Grace

    • 69 posts
    November 30, 2018 4:12 AM PST

    Pretty sure in the discussion regarding ranks in a previous stream they talked about having something similar (I think the example they used was Wizard and something like Maa Shield - instead of ranks it wouldbe Lesser Mana Shield, Mana shield, Greater mana Shield etc.). 

    As for why ranks (or a version of) it is because the stat scaling is a bonus - to make you more specialised, but the spells need to increase in raw power regardless otherwise they become worthless.  For example, if Wis is the main heal stat then a healer will focus on that.  They may want Int too in order to boost some offensive spells, bt they are never going to be able to prioritise it.  That means if spells do not improve, their offensice spells using that stat becomes obsolete because there is no way a healer can focus on it (or else their heals are worthless especially if they too do not upgrade but rely on  stat). 

    The stat mods are a way for a char to further specialise and create slightly different builds but cannot be the primary means to upgrade.  Another example would be Paladin - some skills use Cha in an attempt to make a historically useless stat relevant.  It provides some flexibility, for example I am not going to sacrifice Stam/def stats for Char, however, I may sacrifice Str to instead be more Cha focused - making me more of a specialist with the CC effects compared to a Str based Pally yet not resulting in Str based skills (and the threat they generate) becoming worthless which they would if spells did not upgrade - which then results in no one ever branching out into 'non main stats' because a Pally with good CC is not going to be taken over one that can actually tank

    • 326 posts
    November 30, 2018 7:03 AM PST

    Druid is looking pretty sweet. 

    @asteldian - I'd like to just say that although CHA is typically irrelevant in most MMOs, it was relevant in EQ and will likely be relevant in PRotF.  Its a safe bet that Paladin gear will have both STR and CHA (as well as the other stats) so there will likely not be a need to sacrafice one primary attribute for another - but there will likely be choices that will be tough when upgrading/replacing gear.

  • Wig
    • 180 posts
    November 30, 2018 8:17 PM PST
    I asked this in another thread and didn’t get a response.When in the stream does Sarcoth cast lightning bolt and bee swarm? I would like to see the graphic/damage. I haven’t watched the entire stream as of yet. Thanks in advance! :)
    • 421 posts
    November 30, 2018 8:51 PM PST

    asteldain said: As for why ranks (or a version of) it is because the stat scaling is a bonus - to make you more specialised, but the spells need to increase in raw power regardless otherwise they become worthless.

    Spell ranks are what make a spell slowly worthless over time. Let me explain.

    In a spell Rank system, as you level up you gain access to the next Rank in a spell at set levels. So lets say you have:

    Lvl 01: Fire Splat  
    Lvl 20: Fire Plonk 
    Lvl 35: Fire Blam 
    Lvl 50: Fire Boom

    All of these are exactly the same spell with the same spell description... they just do successively more direct fire damage.

    When you are level 1... Fire Splat is really strong. But it doesn't increase as you level up. So when you reach level 7, it's not really doing much against the monsters at level 7. By level 19 monsters it is almost worthless. Each time you've leveled up, instead of feeling stonger, you are actually feeling much weaker against the monsters of your level because your spell is not getting better.

    You might actually stop casting your fire spell, and instead use your cold spell, because you got it at level 12 and it's that much more useful.

    Finally you reach level 20 and you get the new Fire Plonk spell, and suddenly you have this big boost in your fire spell damage and you stop using your cold spell because it's now much less useful. You feel all fire powerful again.

    But then you keep leveling and again, that Fire spell starts to wane and get less useful. Maybe this time at level 28 you get a newer Arcane spell that starts to become the spell of the level range because it's the highest level spell you can use.

    This means you don't choose your spells based on their Elemental power, but rather just use the one that is the highest level available. And as you level, your spells become less useful against equal level monsters and you actually feel weaker for leveling up, since you move on to tougher monsters, but don't have any increased spell damage to deal with that tougher monster.

    And once you do gain that newer 'Rank' of spell, the older Ranks of the spell become worthless and obsolete. The only time they might be useful is if you wanted to have a lower mana cost version of your spell to use in rare situations. Which opens up a whole other can of worms of 'down ranking' your spells. I remember times in early WoW when healers would have 3 or 4 different ranks of the same Heal, just to play the mana usage game.

    The other problem is that as you level up and get new spells, you are not really feeling like you gained anything new... you just finally get an upgrade to something you already had.

    Non-Spell Rank system:

    In a non Rank system for spells/abilities, instead of having a new spell rank at specific levels, you just get one spell that dynamically scales over time based on your level and stats. As you increase in power, so does that spell. The damage done by that Fire Spell will be directly tied to your power, which is partially tied to your level. So every single time you level up, the spell will instantly start doing more damage. You don't need to wait until a specific level when you get a newer rank before it gets stronger.

    With this system, your spell never becomes feels worthless and/or obsolete.

    When you get those special unique Abilities out in the world (the rare 'epic' abilities as they are refered too), these will not be higher ranks of a spell, but rather a new type of that spell that has alternate effects.

    So your newer 'rare' Fire spell might not just do the same Direct fire damage, but now it does something extra; like perhaps it adds a debuff that lowers the Fire resist of the target by 1% stacking 5 times.

    Then maybe you find a different 'rare' Fire spell that also causes part of the damage to splash onto other targets in an AoE effect.

    Then you find a third 'rare' Fire spell that causes your targets Armour to melt lowering his AC for x seconds.

    As you find these 'rare' spells, instead of just having a 'Higher Rank' of your normal spells, you instead gain more choices for effects that can be used in different situations depending on what is better.

    So with this system, as you level up and gain access to new spells, these spells will be different and will add more choices to your kit and not just be upgrades to what you already had. So New actually feels New and improved. These new spells will have new effects that you didn't have before.

     

    • 421 posts
    November 30, 2018 8:53 PM PST

    Wig said: When in the stream does Sarcoth cast lightning bolt and bee swarm? I would like to see the graphic/damage. I haven’t watched the entire stream as of yet. Thanks in advance! :)

    He didn't actually... which is why some people complained. He said he wasn't going to be casting his Damage spells because he was the sole healer and wanted to make sure he was paying attention to heals.

  • Wig
    • 180 posts
    December 1, 2018 2:51 AM PST
    Oh wow, never casted them, huh? I understand he’s the sole healer but I’d figure maybe at the beginning he would cast them once on the lower level mobs just to let people see. Anyway, about your spell rank system, I like the fact that we would receive one spell only that levels with our characters, it keeps our spellbook from being cluttered.

    However, from a healer stand point, I think it takes away down ranking skills. As a healer, I tried to use the smallest heal that would get the job done to conserve mana. So multiple rank heal spells were applied on my bars for this reason.

    Now this could be done with your scenario, just have several different abilities, with different mana costs and different amount of healing..example: lesser heal, heal, and greater heal.
    • 69 posts
    December 1, 2018 10:46 AM PST

    @Darch EQ tried to make Cha relevant, but in reality, aside from a Chanter it wasn't.  For a Paladin it effected  only one spell line (Soothe) otherwise it did nothing (aside from very small effect on merchant  price) and as a  result no Paladin actually wasted stats on it and  th High Elf forever cursed having useless tank stats but a high Cha.  I am hoping Pantheon does a better job.

     

    @Goofy I thought you meant the skill should only improve due to your stats.  I actually agree that I  would prefer to see ranks removed and the skills simply improving when you level (essentially mimicking getting a 'new rank' and rather than waiting X lvls to get an upgrade, instead your spells are forever improving), then on top of  this natural progression of spells your stats can further enhance them. 

    That said, I also wouldn't mind if the spells changed in name at certain lvls - not for any mechanical reasons, simply to illustrate your prowess - So Fire Splat does ever increasing damage until lvl 10, at which point the very same skill becomes Fire Plonk..Fire Splat no longer exists as it has simply evolved, so never does your spell book have a load of old obsolete spells, Fire Splat is literally renamed Fire Plonk.

    The potential downside to scaling spells is the removal of freedom of chioce  - Downranking has been  popular in anumber of games, allowing you to use a weaker but cheaper spell version for efficiency...though that could be bypassed by simply having some spells literally designed to be mana efficient, weaker spells

    • 421 posts
    December 2, 2018 3:01 AM PST

    asteldian said: Downranking has been  popular in anumber of games, allowing you to use a weaker but cheaper spell version for efficiency...though that could be bypassed by simply having some spells literally designed to be mana efficient, weaker spells

    I don't want people to get the impression that I have something against down ranking in general. But with Pantheon we already have a limited hotbar that we need to manage which abilities we have active. If we then needed to have multiple ranks of multiple spells... You might find yourself a healer with only 4 spells on your bar each with 2 or 3 ranks.

    I think your suggestion of just designing several different types of efficient but weaker spells is the way to go. You can have all sorts of variances such as casting speed, range, mana cost, line of sight, etc... each that have situational benefits that give you options that don't just encourage you to down rank a standard spell and have 2 or 3 versions of it on your hotbar.

    • 458 posts
    December 3, 2018 5:05 AM PST

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    asteldian said: Downranking has been  popular in anumber of games, allowing you to use a weaker but cheaper spell version for efficiency...though that could be bypassed by simply having some spells literally designed to be mana efficient, weaker spells

    I don't want people to get the impression that I have something against down ranking in general. But with Pantheon we already have a limited hotbar that we need to manage which abilities we have active. If we then needed to have multiple ranks of multiple spells... You might find yourself a healer with only 4 spells on your bar each with 2 or 3 ranks.

    I think your suggestion of just designing several different types of efficient but weaker spells is the way to go. You can have all sorts of variances such as casting speed, range, mana cost, line of sight, etc... each that have situational benefits that give you options that don't just encourage you to down rank a standard spell and have 2 or 3 versions of it on your hotbar.

    I hear what your saying Goofy. Downranking will allow for some flexibility though. 

    The good thing about this is that if a change a player makes by up-ranking or down-ranking does not work out well after a fight (or a few) the player can rescribe a more appropriate rank and push on.

  • Wig
    • 180 posts
    December 4, 2018 4:40 AM PST
    A thought crossed my mind. VR has mentioned that there will be abilities that the longer you cast the more damage you do and more mana it costs. A heal could work this way and it would be similar to downranking no?
    • 79 posts
    December 4, 2018 5:16 PM PST

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    asteldian said: Downranking has been  popular in anumber of games, allowing you to use a weaker but cheaper spell version for efficiency...though that could be bypassed by simply having some spells literally designed to be mana efficient, weaker spells

    I don't want people to get the impression that I have something against down ranking in general. But with Pantheon we already have a limited hotbar that we need to manage which abilities we have active. If we then needed to have multiple ranks of multiple spells... You might find yourself a healer with only 4 spells on your bar each with 2 or 3 ranks.

    I think your suggestion of just designing several different types of efficient but weaker spells is the way to go. You can have all sorts of variances such as casting speed, range, mana cost, line of sight, etc... each that have situational benefits that give you options that don't just encourage you to down rank a standard spell and have 2 or 3 versions of it on your hotbar.

     

    I don't see a problem with only having 4 or 5 basic spells and multiple ranks of a couple as a healer.  That is a lot more interesting than the long heal/fast heal/group heal only option of many modern games.  Having the option to make myself more efficient at the expense of not having some niche abilities available during a particular fight is interesting.

    • 233 posts
    December 11, 2018 10:56 AM PST
    With a limited ability bar, it might be a waste of slots to have 3-4 versions of the same ability. Instead of a vider variation of abilities..
    • 326 posts
    December 11, 2018 12:36 PM PST

    @BamBam very true, but there could be some situations that it could be beneficial to have multiple options of the same skill/spell (assuming it is beneficial to resource management to not just use the highest rank skill/ability).  Some examples of those situations could be:
    -Your sole role is to heal in some type of raid environment (where buffs and utility are covered better by other classes).
    -You are a wizard and the boss is immune to two out of three of your elements; or even worse... one element heals them!
    -Perhaps different ranks of taunts have different threat levels and an offtank wants to ensure they're 2nd on the threat channel without pulling threat from the main tank until a specified time.
    -Then there are the obvious ones that were traditionally used in pvp like using a low lvl snare/frostbolt or root vs a player just to hinder their movement, or low rank "blink" type skill because the higher rank only costs more of a resource with little more benefit for the cost.  *shrug*

    add: I'm neither for nor against downranked spells/skills - I'm just identifying that there "could" be situations that warranted having downranked skills if the resource costs/cast times were different.  WoW nurfed downranking by making the entire line of a skill/spell cost the same according to the character's level because as a level 60 mage you had a maxed rank frost bolt on your bar and a rank 1 that had like 1.5 sec cast time but still snared and had the smae chance of freezing your target for a trivial amount of mana.  Then you had 100% chance to crit on frozen targets with your rank 6 frostbolt (likely for 0 mana because clearcast proc'd).


    This post was edited by Darch at December 11, 2018 12:45 PM PST