Forums » General Guild Discussion

LF experienced guild leader advice

    • 22 posts
    November 23, 2018 4:07 PM PST

    Hey y'all, my wife and I are looking to start a family based guild for people who like me work 50+ hours a week and have 3 kids. so, not oing to be a hardcore guild, but want to get as far as we canin the game including raiding. what I'm wondering does anyone have any advice for me on getting started? All sound advice is welcome and much appreciated.

    • 264 posts
    November 23, 2018 5:38 PM PST

    This is what AG has been for close to 19 years! 

    The whole premise is set on the fact that this world you are in is a GAME and NOT a job! We all have those (or did) so we know what it’s like. Raiding is nice, but never mandatory. Setting up a couple of “family” nights a week is good and letting people know what you’re going to do beforehand is even better! That way you’re not spending 2 hours with the, “I dunno... what do y’all wanna do!?” thing happening! And if you have first responders, like we did, expect that there will be a time when they barely have time to say, “LOGGING” before they’re gone!

    We let kids play, too. Great for motor skills and we also had/have the rule that inappropriate language or subjects in /gu are not tolerated. “Mom” sends tells real quick with that happens!

    Make sure you have people surrounding you that will take up the slack so you can have your own RL family time! Officers are essential! Good ones, even more so! ;)

    Set the expectations before you ever actually start your “family” in the game. Have them where people can see and decide if this is something they wanna deal with or not. If they can’t hold their fingers (tongues), then maybe it’s not the right fit! If you’re interested, you can look at ours (ancient guardians.com) and see what I mean.

    Raiding is fun, but watch out for DKP and such. Great way to start internal fighting. Stick with NBG and if you have a visitor to the party, include them! They worked just as hard as the rest.

    That’s basic. Feel free to contact if you have any other questions! And WELCOME and good luck!

    • 22 posts
    November 24, 2018 12:52 PM PST

    Thank you Aredhel. I greatly appreciate the advise.

    • 65 posts
    November 29, 2018 7:03 PM PST

    Aredhel said:

    This is what AG has been for close to 19 years! 

    The whole premise is set on the fact that this world you are in is a GAME and NOT a job! We all have those (or did) so we know what it’s like. Raiding is nice, but never mandatory. Setting up a couple of “family” nights a week is good and letting people know what you’re going to do beforehand is even better! That way you’re not spending 2 hours with the, “I dunno... what do y’all wanna do!?” thing happening! And if you have first responders, like we did, expect that there will be a time when they barely have time to say, “LOGGING” before they’re gone!

    We let kids play, too. Great for motor skills and we also had/have the rule that inappropriate language or subjects in /gu are not tolerated. “Mom” sends tells real quick with that happens!

    Make sure you have people surrounding you that will take up the slack so you can have your own RL family time! Officers are essential! Good ones, even more so! ;)

    Set the expectations before you ever actually start your “family” in the game. Have them where people can see and decide if this is something they wanna deal with or not. If they can’t hold their fingers (tongues), then maybe it’s not the right fit! If you’re interested, you can look at ours (ancient guardians.com) and see what I mean.

    Raiding is fun, but watch out for DKP and such. Great way to start internal fighting. Stick with NBG and if you have a visitor to the party, include them! They worked just as hard as the rest.

    That’s basic. Feel free to contact if you have any other questions! And WELCOME and good luck!

    I agree with Aredhel on nearly every topic LOL!

    You did the right thing out of the gate by stating you are making a family based guild. PG-13 and safe for kids and people who will have a staggerecd play schedule.

    I reccomend the first thing you do is set a guild charter. This is a set of rules that you can always fall back on if you need to have a difficult conversation with people and move them along if needed. Having a solid set in place will help you more than you can imagine in the long run. Cover things like conduct / chat / voice chat / raid and group attendance / recruitment / loot, etc. Family guilds work best when you don't lock down a single timezone or region. Be the global family guild that people can hang out in and have freedom to do what they want without drama or pressure.

    Like Aredhel said find and promote good officers. This is critical for your offline time. Do NOT give any officer the opportunity to make drastic changes to the guild structure or steal all your look and coin on the way out. I have had officers gut my guild bank on an exit in the past and it isn't pretty. As the leader you should login at least daily even if it is for 3 minutes to check mail and say hi. Give sub level officers or leaders the ability to invite people to the guild. It helps normal members get friends tagged without having to wait for senior leadership logged in. Just make sure to set permissions for guild bank and other options to keep new recruits from cleaning you out and leaving.

    Plan events that you know you can host and lead. If it is once a week where you are meeting up for a group / epic hunt / harvesting event / or just some good ole fashioned exploration, set the time and be ready to take whoever is there along.

    Be clear and transparent with members and never flame people for leaving, it builds a bad reputation. Some simply aren't a fit, they will find a guild they like at some point. Be ready to be the "Starter Guild". You will have people join you for a week or 10 years lol, there is some middle ground but people might use the comfy guild chat as a start while they learn the game.

    You can see our charter if you like at http//www.megaming.us and feel free to join us on Discord at anytime to chat and say hi. You can join the site to meet our group and still make your own guild, we would love to build an alliance with others in the game.

     

    Red

    • 1415 posts
    December 12, 2018 12:02 AM PST

    Aredhel and Red already said pretty much everything I could say here, but I want to echo them.  They nailed it.  If you're setting things up ahead of time, the best thing you can do is just be up front and realistic about what your guild is and isn't, and having a good set of officers to help you cover things is key.  If you'd like to see another example of a charter that you are welcome to borrow from, feel free to look at Shadowfire's charter as well.

    • 62 posts
    December 16, 2018 6:27 PM PST

    Read books on leadership. My most recent favorite is "The Dichotomy of Leadership: Balancing the Challenges of Extreme Ownership to Lead and Win" by Jocko Willink. Other than that figure out what you'd like your guild to look like a few years from now, and what it would take to ge there. Then do the opposite, what would the worst guild you could imagine be that you'd be in charge of and what would that be like. Then what does it take to avoid that (probably some overlap between the first, but that's okay).

     

    • 1322 posts
    February 15, 2019 9:01 PM PST

    I'm wondering if you really actually are willing to "get as far as we canin the game including raiding."?  That requires making sacrifices even if someone isn't working 50 hours a week and doesn't have 3 kids.  Maybe you don't actually mean that?  I'm going to offer some tips as if that statement is accurate and you are willing to make those sacrifices.

    The main thing if you are very restricted on time is to make sure your guild members are all available at the same times you are.  Recruiting the right people who play at a similar time as you will be crucial.  Even working 50+ hours you should still be able to raid most nights if you plan well.

    Also, having strong officers is always helpful but will be even more necessary in your case.  Having officers who have everyone ready to go for raids when you log in will be required on your tight schedule if you only have a limited number of hours per night.

    To be frank, I doubt someone working 50+hours a week with 3 kids will be a good guild leader for a guild that "wants to get as far as we canin the game including raiding."  But maybe you will prove me wrong?

    You may be better off joining a guild of people with a similar play time that is more laid back and isn't trying to progress as far as possible?

      The responses you got from others here are definitely from more casual guilds and that might be better for someone with your play time?

    But if you actually want to progress as far as you can including raiding like you said, it is possible. It's just going to be more difficult with your schedule.  Sleep is over rated anyway.  Good luck.

    • 264 posts
    February 16, 2019 9:01 AM PST

    The only problem with Philo's response is that you limit yourself to some GREAT people, and potential friends, if you start recruiting people of all the same ilk, as far as time available goes. While it's very true that it's hard to be a leader, working that much with kids and wife, there are ways around it. Just be ready for things to not go quite as you anticipated or hoped. And further more, by the time we get to "end" (whatever that is) game (and with Brad & Co, that's doubtful), circumstances may have changed! And there's always the possibility of having an alliance with another guild! Of course, that means you may lose players to someone else, too....been there, done that!

    It's not easy, regardless, but it's not impossible, either. Like he said, "Good luck" but please don't skimp on the sleep (except on weekends) so your family knows who you are; the jolly ole Pop that likes to have fun and enjoy things OUTSIDE of game!

     

    • 15 posts
    February 17, 2019 1:19 PM PST

    I agree with Aredhel and Redroosta, it is all about the parameters you set for the guild and those interested will follow, like Aredhel, I and my wife have ran a guild that has developed life long friendships, The Watch is currently 3 years old in Wow, we originally started with Rift, we all left and returned to world of warcraft once the game went pay to win. 

     

    So running a guild designed around Real Life over gaming is pretty fun and less management than when i was in raid management in Everquest 1, raiding 6 days a week. 

    • 1322 posts
    February 17, 2019 10:35 PM PST

    They are right, it is definitely much easier and less management to run a more casual guild "designed around real life". You can have fun and meet great people in all kinds of guilds.

    No one has addressed the OPs part about "getting as far as you can in the game including raiding" but me though.

    Maybe the OP is ok with not doing the highest lvl challenges until they are made easier by additional expansions/gear etc? I'm very doubtful that you will be able to complete current expansion, high end raiding in the type of guild being described by most here, if the challenge lvl ends up being as advertised.

    Maybe the OP will clarify if they really wanted to get as far as possible as stated, or if they want to have a more casual play style?  There isn't a right or wrong way. I was simply trying to address the OPs concerns.

    It doesn't have to feel like a job to progress at the high end. I have felt like I was playing casually while being in the top guild on the server before just because of the friendships, camaraderie, well scheduled/organized leadership etc that made it a pleasure to log in everyday.


    This post was edited by philo at February 17, 2019 10:38 PM PST
    • 15 posts
    February 18, 2019 6:47 AM PST

    Well the thing about highest level content is time is required. Being a casual guild that raids we have a wide gambit of players whose times are different, in a game like Everquest or Vanguard you had to meet certain requirements to be able to do some of the high end content. I am expecting the same thing escpecially if there is instance raiding in Pantheon, if they do it like Everquest where the instances require a Key to access it could make things interesting and camp checks ... But we do not know how end game will work and the current game progressions are different so it would be hard to address the OP question on that. 

     

    Best we can do is help the OP set up his gaming rule set and how he and his mrs. will run the guild ... I and my Mrs. co-run a guild and it is both very rewarding and at times very stressful. 

     

    Art 

    Commander of the Watch


    This post was edited by Dmyankee at February 18, 2019 6:48 AM PST
    • 793 posts
    February 18, 2019 2:26 PM PST

    I have been in a few family guilds, some hardcore family raiding guilds, and others just casual. Since it seems like it is a casual one time zones are a very important part for these types of guilds. Since your guild will be casual and you will only get on for a few hours, it is good to get people who get on around your time. If you get someone from a different timezone who has the odd day of playing around your time, then not only will you hardly play with them, but they will think the guild is dead and leave eventually.

     

    However, a casual guild, who wants to get stuff done in era, will require some time commitments in the game. Raiding, and material farming are time commitments, but planning and doing them over the weekend is a good approach.

    Basically, for casual guilds, do what hardcore guilds do. I know this sounds insane, but do what they do except for the time investment. I will give you some basic ideas:

    Static groups: In your case get people that can get on at the same time as you and group with them consistently. Hardcore guilds will have several static groups going that will play for a week with around 4 hours asleep a day. You will just have the concept of static group for your few hours that you are on. This will save you from looking for groups in that period of time.

    Crafting: Dedicated crafters. If you and your wife will be playing, don't know about your kids, then you guys should take some important crafting rolls, like jewelcrafting, and cooking for stat food, and alchemy if they have it. You can usually get gear in dungeons, however, crafted rings and earrings tend to be the best for pre raiding. Whoever else you recruit can take w/e crafting rolls you don't want to do and thats up to you on who you appoint those to. However, not everyone should craft and one person should be the crafter of one profession and craft for the guild, while the guild, through leveling, will find reagent drops and give the reagents to the crafter. If you are a jewelcrafter and it takes 50 emerald rings to level from 1-50 for sapphire rings and you have two jewelcrafters, then it will take double the emeralds, and time for them to get sapphire rings. Howerver, with one crafter you get to the sapphire rings and your guild can be kited with sapphire rings that much faster for leveling progression.

    Raids: Raids are tricky for casual groups. The few casual guilds I have been in would usually raid trash mobs in raid areas. These raid trash mobs tend to drop some good gear and reagents for your guild. You can also raid some hard to break into dungeons for some boss drops for your guild. This doesn't create a lot of stress of boss downing yet, but gets you guys use to doing stuff together. However, once you guys want to attempt a raid boss, I would do it over the weekend on saturday or sunday mid afternoon.

    Officers: It's good to have a few officers to take some burden from you guys and split up the tasks. For instance you can have an officer gather time frames for raiding from your members and spread sheet it for you in excel or something for you to look at.

    Calendar: Just like going out to eat, going to see a movie, etc..planning your events is key. I find if you plan your events for raiding and such ahead of time, then guildies will most likely show up at that time. 

    • 1415 posts
    February 18, 2019 10:48 PM PST

    I find that any time we start talking about terms like "casual", what that means to people tends to be all over the map.

    The truth, in my experience, is that it's more about focus and motivation than it is about actual time to play.  Shadowfire's been able to do "current era" raid content and beat it with a once/week raid schedule in several games now, and without having to resort to participation requirements or anything like that.  The core concepts of how we did it were pretty straightforward:

    1) Find a time that worked for the people that wanted to do it (which was weekend nights, in our case).

    2) Set ground rules up front about how long we would go in a raid session so people knew what to expect (which was 3 hours, tops)

    3) Stay organized and build a culture of communication.  Emergencies sometimes happened, but it got to where if someone wasn't going to make an upcoming raid, we usually knew about it a week in advance and could adjust.

    4) Adopt a "no member left behind" attitude.  When we weren't raiding, our people were out helping each other with anything and everything - even if it was lower level content for a newer player.

    5) Keep it fun.  Raid time was about the raid, but we didn't stress over it.  If we wiped trying to learn a fight, our attitude was "we'll learn more next week".

     

    Anyway my point here is that I think it's entirely possible for "casual" guilds to raid.  You probably won't be getting server firsts, but there's nothing that says someone has to play 40 hours a week to be good at their class and to be good at working with others either.  My guys used to sub for the big raid guilds all the time and help them out, and more than once got asked if they wanted to switch guilds (thankfully, they usually said no).

    I guess the best advice I could offer to any newer guild leader is not to let anyone tell you what your guild can or can't do, or how to do it.  Find a way that works for your guild and go with that.  If you're having fun and your members are having fun, you're doing fine.  If you or your members aren't having fun, don't be afraid to change things either - just make sure you have an honest talk with your guild about it before you do it.  It's their guild too, after all.


    This post was edited by Nephele at February 18, 2019 10:50 PM PST
    • 15 posts
    February 19, 2019 8:12 AM PST

    Well said Nephele, it is all about the objectives you have for your guild. I know casual guilds that are clearing mytic raiding content in world of warcraft ... it is something i personally do not want to be invovled in. But it is doable ..

    • 793 posts
    February 19, 2019 1:36 PM PST

    Lol casual means not playing for alot each week, for most people that is. I was addressing the objectives since he wanted to down raid bosses in era. The easiest way honestly is to just mimic hardcore raid guilds minus the time played. This involves finding people that log on around your time, and you do things in a more casual sense, but still efficent and not waste resources in crafting, like hardcore guilds do. Efficiency isn't only for hardcore poopsockers..it can also be for casuals.

    • 1322 posts
    February 19, 2019 2:45 PM PST

    Just for full clarity, and this thread is probably moot because the OP hasn't responded in months anyway but, they said they "want to get as far as we canin the game including raiding." 

    As far as they can is about maxing out their progression.  That's not settling for not completing raids that aren't as difficult as they can possibly handle.    We have to expect Pantheon will be more difficult than any game currently on the market based on what has been advertised.  I fully expect that to mean months of failures raiding everyday in some cases. 

    I think Watemper is giving pretty fair advice and the other posters might be underestimating the difficulty lvl that Pantheon is striving for. 

    Also, VR can't produce content fast enough to allow even the best "casual" players to complete the highest difficulty encounters in a timely manner or players will run out of incentive to continue playing...though maybe the progeny rewards will be a large enough incentive to make people focus on re-leveling instead of staying at the high end and purely raiding?  Seems unlikely but it is a possible solution.

    I do agree that some of the confusion here is probably because of how people define "casual" and "hardcore".  I know what I have considered casual play in the past others have considered hardcore so that is likely where some of the disagreements stem from.


    This post was edited by philo at February 19, 2019 3:12 PM PST
    • 84 posts
    February 21, 2019 4:46 AM PST

    plz delete me

     


    This post was edited by Caffeineinjected at February 21, 2019 4:47 AM PST
    • 37 posts
    March 1, 2019 3:22 PM PST

    There are two things that will destroy a guild faster than any other:

    Loot

    Cliques

     

    I would highly suggest that if you want to run a family guild you watch those two areas closely.