((I persoanally don't know any gamer who just plays a single MMO, considring the huge aount that are coming in the next couple of years.))
Whereas I know quite a few. Some people prefer concentrating on one at a time - it is hard to get really good at something if you spend only a small fraction of your game time on it.
You are right that many people prefer to dabble - many people play games and they do it in different ways.
Grimseethe said:This game looks great, but lets be realistic, MMOs coming out in the next few years are probably going to be amazing.
Amazon is making an MMO with like a billion pound budget, unfortunately it will be a survival MMO which is dreadful.
No on is going to still be paying for a small time MMO with slightly oldschool like features and mechanics.
If the game comes out with a box price, and charges per expansion and has a cash shop for just cosmetics, i think it will do fine.
Devs need to remember that their players are not just playing their MMO.
Subscriptions sometimes force players to choose between mmos, it also persoanlly for me makes me feel like i need to rush, to get my moneys worth.
P.S never remove a single cosmetic form the cash shop.
Collectors hate it.
How many craptastic huge-budget games exist right now?
It's also worth it to point out that the game you're talking about has John Smedley as the GM of the studio. The same guy that led EQ down the path to the trainwreck it currently exists in.
You are right about one thing though. The hope is that players of this game will not just play it. They will invest in it, both emotionally and financially. You can either fund a game with just box sales and expansion costs and hope that you have enough turnover that new players coming in will finance future expansion. Or you can have your loyal player base continually support its evolution. I'd personally much prefer the latter. Experience shows the community is generally more interested in the health of the game and it's community rather than their own short-term personal gain at the expense of the game's longevity and health.
zoltar said:VIP Subscription- $19.99 10 character slots 1 free realm transfer after every 12 months of active VIP 3 transmog/cosmetic item presets 2 shared bank slots (~40 items) 25 Extra emotes + 1 alternative dance Forum access + access to VIP forum section Flying mounts (just kidding)No. As someone who highly values cosmetics (far more than game stats), I am getting a bit tired of being the one who gets to shoulder all the extra money investment. If Pantheon were F2P or B2P, that would be one thing, but going with a P2P system, that $15/month better cover everything. If VR decided that we should pay a more expensive subscription to have access to (to me) highly desirable things like emotes and wardrobes... I would happily take my money elsewhere. And think about it - that extra $5 adds up to a lot of money over time. That's $60 additional dollars over one year over the $15/month. If I took that $240 for a full year of "VIP" subscription and applied it to a F2P MMO, I would be able to purchase FAR more than what you've suggested it would include (depending on the MMO, but I don't patron F2P cash shops that are obscenely overpriced). What's more, each year I could take that $240 and buy additional things, whereas with this "VIP" subscription, I would just be spending more and more money for the exact same "bonuses" every year.
Mod Edit: Sorry I had to butcher your post to remove code that was breaking the thread, no text was changed, just formatting, page breaks and bullet points from the quote.
dorotea said:((I persoanally don't know any gamer who just plays a single MMO, considring the huge aount that are coming in the next couple of years.))
Whereas I know quite a few. Some people prefer concentrating on one at a time - it is hard to get really good at something if you spend only a small fraction of your game time on it.
You are right that many people prefer to dabble - many people play games and they do it in different ways.
I am one of those that plays only one MMO at a time. I prefer not to divide up my time and "concentration" amongst multiple ones with multiple play styles and mechanics. Especially wince i only play one class.
Thestus said:As I stated, my personal preference is a subscription-based system. I too am more than willing to pay per month.
My fear is that the majority won't. I'm only pointing out something I saw happen with my own eyes (internally - not as an outside observer). And yes, I understand what FTP means (micro-transactions, in-game store, etc). Is that preferred? No. Not to me. I'm just concerned that a subscription won't produce the necessary funds for a successful MMORPG.
I knew posting this would result in some passionate responses. But like I said, it's a conern. I posted anyway because I care, and in my experience I've seen a product fail with a sub model and be saved by FTP (and if you're wondering, I was a huge proponent for the sub-model then too).
All I'm really asking is what thought process and/or research went into this desicion.
Cheers,
Thestus
When i worry about others i worry about things like are they eating everyday, being offered work for fair pay, however when it comes to playing video games i dont care about people in the sense of being able to play or not, not syaing i dont want to see a world littered with players because i do, but if you cant afford it - you cant afford it, if you make it ftp or a cash shop it will kill the challenge of them game, no matter what a developer tells you, they are after your money via the things they love, if they create a dragon encounter and have to think about balancing it around the items said characters are predicted to have it keeps it in control for everyone, if you create a dragon encounter for people who bought all the best gear from your shop well then who really cares about anything other than the next dragon will just be said to need the next set of high level gear they throw in their shop,m and you have a very empty game in front of you at that point, you might as well buy drugs and women or men if thats your thing with the money you spend on the game it will be alot more fun and fulfilling, brainfood!
Zoltar: Apologies, I had to remove your second post quoting the broken code as it re-broke the thread.
All: We are not considering any special tier subscription plans, we had made this clear years ago in a similar thread that we will be sticking to a more industry standard type of subscription plan.
Kilsin said:Zoltar: Apologies, I had to remove your second post quoting the broken code as it re-broke the thread.
All: We are not considering any special tier subscription plans, we had made this clear years ago in a similar thread that we will be sticking to a more industry standard type of subscription plan.
Amen to that. I dearly hope Pantheon gets enough people through the door to sustain a sub-only model and NO cash store of any kind. I've recently gone back to ESO out of boredom and the amount of shenanigans and drama its crown store creates is mind-boggling.
Thestus said:Hello all,
I'm a long-time EQ player and, like many others, am very excited about Pantheon: RotF
My largest concern thus far was to hear of the plans for a subsciption model. Personally, I'm a fan of the subscription model, but I'm not sure it still works in today's market. It worked for former games, but with MMORPGs that have come out in the last 5 years or so, it's not working. There is on title in particular (due to NDAs I can't call it out by name - but it launched in 2014) that tried a sub model and struggled. After a year, the switched to a FTP model and they are now a massive success.
Please don't get me wrong - I want Pantheon to succeed. I want to see them crush it ... I'm just wondering what went into the decision to go with a sub model, because - at least in my experience - it no longer works.
Cheers,
Thestus
Hello there Thestus. I understand where you're coming from, and I agree that starting any MMO with the only method of payment being a subscription plan is probably going to limit the overall number of consistent players in the game. And with the success of the game completely riding on having a large base of consistent players, this is a huge issue. Visionary Realms will need to be a bit more creative in their approach to introducing people to their new game, or it's more than likely they're going to watch Pantheon become unbearable for the average player.
A lot of people seem to abhor microtransactions, but I see no reason to exclude them completely if they're cosmetic only, and implemented in a way that doesn't defeat the purpose of spending countless hours hunting for new gear.
With regard to Free-To-Play, I think the biggest fear of a FTP payment model is that it will attract an infinite number of scammers, griefers, and "gold" farmers, among many other problems, which I agree with. Hopefully VR finds a creative way to implement FTP so as to greatly limit the exposure of their dedicated fanbase from the aformentioned non-players.
VR could also implement different levels of a subscription based model, where $5 per month gets you very limited access to the game, $15 per month gets you full access, and something like $25 per month gets you VIP access. The thing is, I love playing RPGs and MMOs, but if I paying more, I better get what I want, which is a problem in and of itself. Everyone will expect something different from a VIP subscription, and very few will have those wants met. For me, I wouldn't mind paying $50 per month for an MMO, but I better be able to Six-box 100% of the content in the game and have the appropriate macro content to do so with a single keyboard, if I so choose.
So far, VR has demonstrated that they are up to the task of being creative when they need to be. This is a major issue you've brought up here, and hopefully VR doesn't let it fall through the cracks
FTP and subscription is like owning a phone. You get more for your money with a subsciption based model.
I personally would have prefered the game go buy to play.
Buy the game, buy each exspansion.
Even add a shop with nothing but cosmetics, change character style etc, things no one really cares about but are still useful enough that some people will pay money.
There are so many MMOs coming out in a few years, some of which have huge names behind them.
Like the new LOTR MMO.
I dont think this somewhat niche title is going to be able to cope with the competition.
When i say niche i mean not as known as wow, it also doesnt have a franchise behind it, so ive never met anyone who knows what it is.
If they add a cosmetics shop in the first five years I'd be dissapointed, severely so.
If they want items, classes or skills/spells to be recognisable or prestigious it has to be through excerted effort ingame. There is no pride and accomplishment in a cash shop nomatter how much a certain company wants you to think so.
If I see someone with a Fiery Avenger I know they put in a lot of effort and in the end was awarded a powerful artifact - or at least a raid capable of killing the questgiver (looking at you dwarf paladin guy).
Changed effects for spells, attacks or awesome item graphics are good ideas, as ingame rewards.
Revox said:If they add a cosmetics shop in the first five years I'd be dissapointed, severely so.
If they want items, classes or skills/spells to be recognisable or prestigious it has to be through excerted effort ingame. There is no pride and accomplishment in a cash shop nomatter how much a certain company wants you to think so.
If I see someone with a Fiery Avenger I know they put in a lot of effort and in the end was awarded a powerful artifact - or at least a raid capable of killing the questgiver (looking at you dwarf paladin guy).
Changed effects for spells, attacks or awesome item graphics are good ideas, as ingame rewards.
Item recognition is very important to them, and one of their stated goals, according to what they have repeatedly said in streams. They have said that they are against cosmetic changes to items.
Thanks for mentioning it Kalok. I thought I had heard someone say something along those lines but wasn't certain.
It was mostly a reply to the guy above me who said that nobody cares about cosmetic cash shops.
For most games I follow when people post ideas which I wholehartedly disagree with I don't comment because I'm not all that interested in the game. But I really don't want to see this game go down the road of ease, flashy tophats and santa hats in christmas.
Grimseethe said:I hear your comments folks, but GW2 isnt struggling as a buy to play game.
A cash shop for cosmetics only i'm not sure how most people could care, you could buy a single cosmetic each year as a treat for yourself if you wanted to.
I persoanally don't know any gamer who just plays a single MMO, considring the huge aount that are coming in the next couple of years.
Howdy Grimseethe,
A pleasure to meet you, I currently play one MMO and have been for the last 14 years. Now that we have meet, you know someone that does play a single MMO.
