Forums » The Summoner

Summon Behemoth - what happens to the base ability?

    • 529 posts
    November 19, 2018 12:00 AM PST

    Had this thought: Imagine you're a summoner and are using our summon creature ability to help out your friendly enchanter. Then you come across this mystic summoner NPC, talk to him, do a quest, and voila! You now have the summon behemoth ability. Great! But...your friendly chanter doesn't have direcharm yet, so summoning monsters is out of the window...

    - Will summoners retain the ability to "Summon Creature" when they evolve it into "Summon Behemoth"?
    - Or will they have to wait until their enchanter friends catch up and get dire charm first before they can evolve their spell?
    - What about PUGs, where you cannot assume that random chanters will have dire charm yet...will our synergy spell be useless there?

    From looking at the evolved abilities of several classes, it seems like they replace the original abilities. But I would argue that in case of the summoner, it would be beneficial, almost required, to keep both abilities. This would also be pretty much mandatory for cases like mentoring.


    This post was edited by Sarim at November 19, 2018 12:02 AM PST
    • 1347 posts
    November 19, 2018 9:54 AM PST

    I can see your point on this but I suspect that Summon Behemoth will not replace Summon Creature.  They will exist concurrently and you choose which you want to use.  You would be right that to have Behomoth replace Creature would, in groups where you would need an Enchanter and one with Dire Charm, be totally useless and deprives the Summoner of its core ability that of summoning elementals.

    • 149 posts
    December 11, 2018 1:34 AM PST

    I really hope they release more information on this ability soon. It bummed me out to have an epic ability be " Summon Pet for Another Class ". I don't mind abilities with synergy, but summon deadly monster that wants to kill you so another class can use it as a pet feels like it falls short.

    • 359 posts
    January 2, 2019 1:22 AM PST
    After I also highly talked down the behemoth epic ability, o have tried to find use of this spell. Imagine you don't have a chanter on the grp. And you are about to break a hard camp let's say 4-5 enemies. The summoner will start the fight with summon behemoth spell and create chaos with the npcs fighting eachother. This will buy valuable time for the grp to pick a target and bring it down while the other npcs fight the behemoth. I will imagine the behemoth will lost at some point, being even lvl as 3 other npcs it fighting. And after it dies it will be a 3vsthe grp o stead of 4-5 npcs bs the grp.
    • 149 posts
    January 2, 2019 2:54 AM PST

    I thought I read that the behemoth will be aggro to the Summoner until he dies or zones ( or it is dire charmed I assume ). I guess you could try to sell castings of it to enchanters some used to charge for clarity. Either way I am still not excited that the epic ability for Summoners is summon pet for the already overpowered enchanter. 

    • 33 posts
    February 27, 2019 2:41 PM PST

    I hope they leave this spell as is, and that the behemoth aggros whichever character is closest at its time of summoning (likely the summoner in most situations). I feel that Visionary Realms showed this specific epic ability for the summoner to give us a hint that many classes will have abilities / epic abilities that will only work with a specific other class. I'm sure the summoner will have various forms of epic pets to whet their appetite that they themselves will control. Who is to say enchanters won't have an epic ability to enchant a summoner's pet to allow it to do X for Y amount of time while amplifying its form? Anything that further promotes interaction among players in a conducive way is exciting to me.  

    • 149 posts
    February 28, 2019 12:41 AM PST

    I like the idea of synergy between different classes also.

    Character A uses a spell to make a monster wet for the next 6 seconds while doing a dot as they suffocate or are crushed in a globe of water. Character B uses a lightning strike ability that does extra damage to enemies in mostly metal or wet. Sweet!

    Summoner summons most powerful pet in game........and has to give it to another class who already can nuke, buff mana regen, grant haste, and has unrivialed crowd control. Not sweet.

    I really want to know what the hidden synergy is that makes this a cool ability for the summoner.

    • 33 posts
    February 28, 2019 9:55 AM PST
    I think you’re dreading something we don’t know full details about, but understand why you would be concerned with that line of thought. Surely this won’t be the “most powerful pet in the game”. I would assume that all the end level elementals would be stronger than this pet. I would further venture to say that Summoner controlled “epic” pets would be a combination of elements. I also would think this spell will only be for very well put together groups, as the summoner behemoth is not able to be “permanently” charmed like other mobs can be. If I’m in a hard area as an enchanter with an average group, I would prefer a permanently charmed mob as a pet for additional damage , as opposed to a Behemoth that I have to worry about recharming while also trying to keep multiple mobs mesmerized. I don’t foresee any summoner ever wanting to use a “summon monster” type pet over their elemental pets, unless they were doing it for aesthetic purposes. My hopes for this spell may be as wrong as your fears of it, but in the end, Visionary Realms would not allow the most powerful pet a summoner can conjure to be utilized solely by an enchanter. This spell will just be an added bonus a summoner can bring to a group that has an enchanter in its ranks.
    • 529 posts
    March 4, 2019 11:49 PM PST

    I don't worry much about the actual ability, since we just don't know enough about it yet. I was just wondering about the situation described in the OP (losing access to a lower level ability because you evolved it). For most of the evolvable abilities, it looks like that won't hurt the class, but as I said, in the summoner case evolving the "summon creature" ability (and thereby losing it) could actually have negative consequences.

    But agreeing with posts above, its high time we learned more about the summoner :)

    • 37 posts
    March 18, 2019 5:16 PM PDT

    I love the idea of having synergy with another class, and don't get this "summon a powerful creature for another class" bit.  The enchanter can't do it without you.  If a cleric puts his epic buff on the tank does he complain that he is giving it to someone else? And do you ever want to be in group without an enchanter?

    Mal

     

    • 10 posts
    March 25, 2019 2:50 PM PDT
    I think it has less to do with people liking or not liking synergy (though there is a lot more of a selfish/me mentality these days) and more about their class identity. If the epic ability revealed had been something like "Summon the Legendary Excalibur" and only warriors could use I imagine a lot less summoners would feel stepped on, and more excited to help out their groupee. With this being talked about as being a huge powerful beasty, some feel like they are dethroning themselves as the strongest pet class if they use this spell to benefit an enchanter/their group.

    I'm in the camp of loving this ability. We control inanimate objects, and even our pets are described as less than intelligent. Just like enchanters excel at bewitching the minds of those around them, yet their own minds explode when attempting to summon. Combine our abilities, and together you have ripped an outer cosmic/planer being from his home and bent him to your will. (Or maybe just a squirrel, we dunno at this point lol) Luckily we already know that we at least get the epic ability to have the water pet out with our combat pet. I imagine we wont be neglected and will be giving plenty of cool things that we ourselves get to use.
    • 218 posts
    March 25, 2019 3:11 PM PDT

    I imagine there will be some way to retain the base ability for times when the Enchanter doesn't have Dire Charm yet. It's just one of those things that the devs will probably address as they get into the nitty gritty stuff down the line.

    • 149 posts
    May 13, 2019 2:24 AM PDT

    Malleable said:

    I love the idea of having synergy with another class, and don't get this "summon a powerful creature for another class" bit.  The enchanter can't do it without you.  If a cleric puts his epic buff on the tank does he complain that he is giving it to someone else? And do you ever want to be in group without an enchanter?

    Mal

     

     

    When the cleric buffs the tank, he is making the tank better at this job. When a summoner summons the best pet in the game for the enchanter, he is making the enchanter a cooler pet class then the summoner who already has a ludicrous array of overpowered abilities. That is what bothers me. The epic summons should be a pet for the.......summoner, not for someone else because the summoner is the primary pet class. Synergy is two abilities working together. Not one ability existing to solely make another class better. That is simply a buff. And this is a buff that works for only one class, which happens to be the one class in the game I can't imagine needing buffs anyway.