Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Community Debate - Open World Housing vs Instanced Housing

    • 798 posts
    October 29, 2018 7:51 AM PDT

    ^ Agreed. I think there should of been a No housing option. I am curious to see how far that one would go.

    • 649 posts
    October 29, 2018 8:46 AM PDT

    Trasak said:@Naunet

    I'd love to see pictures comparing the base housing map to what you have done with it and it breaks my heart a bit to hear that's its all just going to go poof. Oh and curious what you think as well of my multi path open world but overlapping space housing idea as you are coming from the opposite end of the open vs instanced.

     

    Anyone else feel free to respond as well, just singling these three out as they have strong opinions on the matter and would specifically like their feedback.

    Hey, sorry this took so long to respond to! It's been a busy past few days. :)

    I ran around and grabbed some screenshots of one of my projects - the Foothills of Wilderrun. It's based around my main character's original housing plot, Spaceship Crashed, which was her ship crashed into a large tree in the middle of a jungle (somewhere on the edges of the in-game zone Wilderrun). When Carbine implemented Communities, I got the idea to expand upon the area around the crashed spaceship. There are a number of little nooks and crannies on Spaceship Crashed that I didn't screenshot (mostly all the little caves with mysterious things I've hidden around the plot), but I went around and grabbed shots of the "big" stuff. xD Unfortunately I haven't had much time to work on the rest of it, though I included some bare-bones work on a mountain river I've been working on, plus the start of a coastline. I also included a shot of one of the empty housing plots on that community, so you can get a sense of where things start (the only thing I've changed on that plot is the ground, and I removed the default ground clutter). The album is here!

    As for your idea - it sounds interesting, if I'm understanding it correctly. I'm more of a fan of having a "blank slate" to work with, so to speak, instead of being bound to something that is clearly a house. But I do think your idea would work well, if the server tech was workable with the sort of infinite hallway.

    Trasak said:@Naunet

    Correct if I am wrong please. You are not against open world housing existing you just want to also have the option of a significant sized space that you can sandbox with world objects to your hearts content. Realistically the size you are hoping to work with would be unrealistic to get a hold of in an open world competitive land system so the only real choice is an instanced space.

    This is correct. :) Accessibility isn't the only problem, though, as my sandboxy desires require a fairly high item count. It would put way too much strain on the servers if it were open world (I mentioned the number earlier - in WS it's over 17,000 decor placable on a fully built community; 2,500 exterior decor on a fully built single housing plot).

    I suppose if VR wanted to do both, that'd be fine, but I think that'd take a lot of resources to juggle.


    This post was edited by Naunet at October 29, 2018 8:52 AM PDT
    • 157 posts
    October 30, 2018 8:27 AM PDT

    I very much enjoy player housing. My interactions with player housing were in UO, SWG, EQ2, and Wildstar, in that order not that it matters much. 2 were instance based ( WS and EQ2 ) and 2 were open world ( UO and SWG ).

    In a perfect world I would like open world housing. I like the idea of exploring the game world and finding a place I want to have my character's house be. It could be near or in a main city or out in the wilderness depending on the game and other factors. I like that others could come across it by chance or design depending on location.

    However, I feel overall housing should probably be instanced. With choice comes chances for people to grief. Placing buildings in stupid or horribly inconvenient places would undoubtly occur. Visible housing can cause issues graphics wise with more textures to load and whatnot, which in turn could make the game less enjoyable or cause people to have to mess with graphic settings when they went in or near a city because of 1700 houses that need to be rendered in addition to players, the city itself and whatever else. Also the urban sprawl is a real occurance in games because most people don't want to have a 20 minute hike to their house after doing whatever they were going to do in x city. Instanced housing also keeps it out of the way for people who are irritated by the concept of housing in general. Out of sight, out of mind so to speak.

    As for when housing should be implemented, in the above mentioned perfect world it would be from the start, but realistically I wouldn't mind it being added later on so that more focus could go into core game mechanics ( adventuring content, questing and the likes ) in the beginning.

    • 33 posts
    October 30, 2018 9:04 AM PDT

    I like guild housing, bank, basic merchant for basic supplies and selling, and porting area for raids or grouping.  No fun waiting 30 minutes for someone to run across a few zones to get to you and possible deaths.  I did love the fellowship concept in EQ1 where you could port to a group/raid that was awesome and made adding people to a group that lost a player so much easier.  A personal house I can live with out.

     

    Also if you could add some fun stuff in the guild halls like a bar, with music, karaoke, gambling, darts, what ever to make it social and fun, or a pub/bar/saloon what ever in cities than can be a fun place to hang and meet people and get quests, etc.

     

    But personal housing I for one can live with out.  It doesnt forward the mission of the game which is group interaction.

     

    I know. I tend to read the forum a lot and finally decided I needed to post, so do not look at my post numbers!


    This post was edited by Albe at October 30, 2018 9:06 AM PDT
    • 778 posts
    October 30, 2018 9:15 AM PDT

    Albe said:

    I did love the fellowship concept in EQ1 where you could port to a group/raid that was awesome and made adding people to a group that lost a player so much easier.  A personal house I can live with out.

    WTH? When did EQ1 embrace full carebear?

    • 8 posts
    October 30, 2018 9:18 AM PDT
    Personally I would prefer no housing at all.

    Asheron’s Call instituted non instanced housing, including mansions for alliances (AC’s version of guilds) and it completely killed the population of many towns.

    Before that alliances would use particular towns or city’s as their home base. As player you would know where different alliance would be (this was especially important if you PvP) and it really made the world feel alive since just like real life you’d find different communities of people depending on where you are.

    • 17 posts
    October 30, 2018 9:19 AM PDT

    I can understnd VR's concern about not planning Housing for launch because they really want to do it "right", but I for one would like to see Housing/Guild Halls make it into this game sooner rather than later, because I have always felt that it would fit in VERY well with this style of MMO.

    It adds another aspect to the whole social-oriented part of the game, as well as another outlet for players to spend their time on besides questing & combat. I remember reading an article a long time ago about how many female MMO players really enjoy making Housing into a roleplaying sense, almost like a mini Second Life (i.e setting up a virtual Christmas tree, throwing parties, etc.). And for all those players who are not as into the whole traditional questing side of the game, and mainly want to Craft & be a Healer for their guildmates & friends, Housing would be another great time sink.

    As for open-world vs instanced, I would probably vote for some combination of the two, like in EQ2 or ESO - have the smallest & cheapest "starter" houses be located in the racial cities, while the more spacious and luxurious houses need to be "discovered" out in the open world.


    This post was edited by jfrombaugh at October 30, 2018 9:20 AM PDT
    • 516 posts
    October 30, 2018 10:35 AM PDT

    Yes.

    I like this idea instead.  Let's open an area for housing in several areas.  Each location can have a very limited number of plots.  Allow players to get an instance of a plot.  Allow the players to fully customize that plot.  Let's vote on the best housing for that plot.  Winning plot is then converted into the structure(s) for THAT plot.  That plot is then closed for further design and all other players may then click on that structure to obtain an instance of that plot.  If we do this, there can be open world housing without cluttering up the game world itself.

    • 11 posts
    November 18, 2018 11:18 AM PST

    My preferance is NO HOUSING and don't create a NEED for housing, i.e. don't give us tons of junk/trophies/items that require housing.  I'd rather have an upgraded weapon, armor piece or a better mount instead of a statue.

    Given that housing is important to many players and is inevitable, I would prefer INSTANCED housing.

    Open world housing causes too many problems: land availability, lag, greifing etc.

    As others have suggested, how about open world guild halls BUT with instanced player housing/zones connected to the gh. Provide public zone or city gh with the same instanced housing for players who are not in/don't want to be in a guild.

    edit: spelling error  edit: changed verb: provide to create


    This post was edited by NameTBD at November 18, 2018 11:48 AM PST
    • 890 posts
    November 18, 2018 11:34 AM PST

    I think an instanced housing option as follows could add to multipule aspects of game play:

    In large towns/cities you can rent out from different apartment locations. (Above the tavern, above the merchant stores etc. or dedicated apartment buildings)(Many people can rent the same room out, as a "door" is just a portal to the instanced room/house.) These could be as cheap as 1g to 5g a week to rent. The cheapest giving you little space and little status.  Status is needed for better bartering with the NPC shopkeepers, guards, villagers etc.

    Outside of the large cities there are usually villages. In these villages there could be a room for rent above a shopkeepers store and there could also be a cheap house at the edge of the village and a nice house near the center of the village. These could be from 5g (apartment) to 20g a week for the nice house. (Again, these are instanced.  The building of the house is a solid never moving object in the game, but it acts as a portal to the house. So although there is only 1 building, 1000's of people(accounts) could live there.)  These offer a little more status that NPC's react to and more space the more expensive you get.

    Another additional option is you could have a cottage down by the river. (Again, one building, designed by the developers) 30g a week to rent, it's a little more spacous offers good status and since it's near the river you get an outside deck that lets you fish from it. (Instanced, but a small bonus for owning(renting) this location.)

    Next would be a farm house. Out in a meadow. Two or three free standing houses (designed and placed by the dev team) could surround a small field. 30g a week to rent one of the houses displayed and it's about the same as the size (intierier deminsions size) as the fishing cottage. However, what you get with this house is a gargen that lets you harvest on your solo instanced property (node reuse timers and spawn rates etc apply). 

    Another house or set of houses could be in some trees for wood. More could be near mountains for ore etc.

    These houses cost in rent, but provide slight bonuses to a certain type of harvestable and a certain amount of status, and again status helps with NPC's who offer goods or services who other wise wouldn't offer you without you having status.

    Each of the houses in the wilderness is actually an instanced door. Since there are only 2 house found near a river, 6 found surrounding fields 4 in woods 3 near mountains that wouldn't nearly be enough for everyone to own one, but still enough varity that even though they are instances they will plentiful enough to look and feel different than the others.

    • 100 posts
    November 18, 2018 11:41 AM PST

    persoanly I think there should be no housing... not sure how many people remember ultima online but that was a nightmare wit h all the houses and it looked bad.... instanced ehh if you must have housing but id rather you guys not waste your time on housing and spend more time with game mechanics and class design

    • 38 posts
    November 18, 2018 12:14 PM PST

    As much as I hate to say it, I think that instanced housing (with the zone entrance/exit existing within city boundaries) may be best for this type of game. With Pantheon focusing so heavily on community and the feeling of a virtual world, it's going to be very important to maintain player hubs. If housing is spread out in the open world, or the location of instanced housing is poorly chosen, it could create a situation where the player-base is constantly scattered across the world. From past experience, player hubs are critical in creating a stronger community, and also a greater sense of a living world; maintaining these should be VR's primary concern when considering the various housing options. 

    • 249 posts
    November 19, 2018 10:59 AM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - Open World Housing vs Instanced Housing, which do you prefer and why? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters

     

    Twitter Poll: https://twitter.com/PantheonMMO/status/1054326414256685056

     

    Depends on your definition of instanced housing. I hate EQ2 instanced housing but I like SOTA's instance housing....

     

     What I find acceptable is communities you access via a portal. You zone into a village/town/city. You live with and see everyone in your community but you don't get the urban sprawl in the open world. In these zones there are no resources, just houses/workshops maybe small NPC stores. and some scenery.

    • 643 posts
    November 19, 2018 6:54 PM PST

    flawed poll.

     

    There should be a "no housing" choice.  

     

    I don't want to play Second life

     

    Housing separates players and is a terribly ineffective immersion breaker.  Simply horrible.

     

     

     

    • 3236 posts
    November 20, 2018 6:45 PM PST

    Prefer instanced..and personal housing..no urban sprawl ..messing up the scenery.   Guild housing same.   

    • 22 posts
    November 20, 2018 10:50 PM PST

    Open world housing is ok... but it gets to be really ugly.

     

    Random swaths of houses  congested in an area sucks, plots that are ideal being taken, the game being populated in general will make the game world feel caustraphobic with so many houses out in the world. I would honestly prefer something akin to an instanced area almost like FFXIV with housing you can either buy, rent, or create on a plot. Or even if its free roam but within a sharded area. maybe different zones can have a sharded housing area for people to pick a zone and plot based on availability within that (instance). Once the instance is deemed full, a new one is created that can accomidate more players... rather than a giant bombardment of tons and tons of crappy looking, crappy placed, player houses.

    It was cute in SWG but there was SO much space, and even then, it was ugly and cumbersome, it also encouraged giant sections of land with absolutly nothing in them and no reason to be there, other than housing.

    • 8 posts
    November 21, 2018 8:02 PM PST

    Instanced. I feel like housing shouldnt be a big thing and you should be spending very little time there and more time out in the world adventuring just use for storage and maybe a personal project if u get bored if thats your thing. I dont think anyones gonna care what someone elses house looks like and seems like a silly waste of resources and time im sure the extra data or space could be much better utilized. like in diablo they just used a chest and that was perfect plus in this way you could take it another step forward and pay people merchants whatever to move your storaged goods to new locations maybe pay a storage merchant in each main city that keeps your chest secure i dont know something cool like that adds more thought to what and where your storing items.  also open world can do terrible things to player hubs and stuff


    This post was edited by wicky7772 at November 21, 2018 8:04 PM PST
    • 1174 posts
    November 22, 2018 11:17 PM PST

    Watemper said:

    ^ Agreed. I think there should of been a No housing option. I am curious to see how far that one would go.

    Literally opened this thread just to make this comment.  I will never understand the purpose of housing.

    • 9 posts
    February 25, 2020 6:26 PM PST

    I'm not a fan of instanced solo-player housing for this game, because this is a community driven game and people will tend to live in their houses.  Open world housing has it's own set of challenges and can ruin a landscape and become over-crowded very quickly.  

    How about instanced communities.  Maybe even guild-based communities.  Where each player in a guild has the freedom to be creative with their own house amongst the community of their guildmates around a centralized Guild Hall.  I do enjoy player housing, displaying trophies, and being able to creatively design something in-game that is yours.  But, probably not something for initial release, I think it's a better add after a first expansion.  Focus on the game development, then add more fun stuff later.  Not having player housing at release, is unlikely to be a deal-breaker. . 

    • 546 posts
    February 26, 2020 7:38 AM PST

    As long as housing will be present in the game, I'll be fine with either option.

    • 52 posts
    February 26, 2020 6:06 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    Community Debate - Open World Housing vs Instanced Housing, which do you prefer and why? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters

     

    Twitter Poll: https://twitter.com/PantheonMMO/status/1054326414256685056

     

    Open world housing seems like a large and unnecessary commodity. Highly customizable instanced housing would be fine IMO. I'm not a big fan of housing anyway - unless I can have crafting tables and usefull stuff in there.

    • 360 posts
    February 26, 2020 8:08 PM PST

    no housing. i want content to group and do. don't want to sit around in a  house alone, moving furniture around .

    Seriously, do not worry about housing in main game. save it for an expansion. You are already a small team with enough on the plate already. GET THE GAME OUT. then worry about housing. 


    This post was edited by Flapp at February 27, 2020 2:27 PM PST
    • 263 posts
    February 27, 2020 11:13 AM PST
    I would love to see instanced housing inside non-instanced guildhall's so that guilds could rent out housing to the server.
    • 129 posts
    February 27, 2020 9:08 PM PST

    i dont care about housing.

     

    Give me an INN i'll pay the inn fee to store my garbage and have my garbage connected to all the INNs in the game.

    An open world house mean i gotta run or fly or ride all the way back to my house when i explore some far away continent

    • 129 posts
    February 27, 2020 9:16 PM PST

    (new) ArceAge have open world housing, total garbage imo.

    You had to buy, build, snipe that plot of land before someone else get it or you SoL

    When i run through the so-call housing plots it looked out place like its not even part of an mmorpg feel

    I still have a house but its not even interesting :/