Ignoring the multi-boxing side discussion, this thread is interesting but confusing at the same time. It seems to me that people are talking about two different types of "reputation" as though they were one and the same. That is - 1) reputations with various in-game factions, and 2) personal reputation with other players.
Porygon said:Flapp said:Spluffen said:That's alright, if you box you won't have to worry about whoever else is serious or not ;)
true. i won't group with boxers. 1 person playing two characters halfassed. no thanks.
Lol. This is funny. People say things like this. But then get mad when a boxer doesnt invite them to a group.
Most (read again, most) boxers are significantly better than most (again. Read, most) players.
I would me boxing a healer over most random pug healers, even while I play the tank in the group.
lol MOST of the statement couldn't be any more WRONG. in that group I would have a halfassed tank and halfassed heals. No thank you. you box, I won't be asking for a group.
if I get into a group and see people are boxing, I will leave.
Porygon said:Flapp said:Spluffen said:That's alright, if you box you won't have to worry about whoever else is serious or not ;)
true. i won't group with boxers. 1 person playing two characters halfassed. no thanks.
Lol. This is funny. People say things like this. But then get mad when a boxer doesnt invite them to a group.
Most (read again, most) boxers are significantly better than most (again. Read, most) players.
I would me boxing a healer over most random pug healers, even while I play the tank in the group.
Since when "People" are a group of person that is supposed to have the same right opinion.
Some people don't like boxers.
Some other don't like seeing boxers duoting and refusing any group members.
But they aren't the same people, you know ?
Porygon said:Nimryl said:Porygon said:
Most (read again, most) boxers are significantly better than most (again. Read, most) players.
*bursts out laughing* --- sorry I usually stay out of arguments.. but this statement is just unreal. Such a bold thing to say. hilarious!
You only got away with boxing in EQ because it was such a slow paced but more tactical game on the whole. I could rant on about the RP aspects of the game vs meta vs "in the spirit of the game" as to why it shouldn't be allowed and that fact that it's point blank exploitative to box.. but I won't because VR has said they're allowing it+this isn't the thread topic for that. Most boxers better than most players... ha! lol prove it to me.I said most. Twice. And I've boxed healers and tanks in multiple games including heroic dungeons in various expansions in wow. It's not hard. I'm also the type of boxer that will invite other players to my group.. and the amount of players that play a dps class worse than I can play both a healer and tank at the same time is absurd. It's one of the reasons I prefer to box 2 MAJOR roles. So i dont have to deal with pugs.
As far as it not being allowed. I can understand if you want to restrict it on a RP server... but on a regular server theres no reason why boxing should not be allowed. Not everyone takes the roleplaying in roleplaying game seriously. I also dont even understand how you can assume its exploitative lol, but to each his own.
As to your last point. Roll on my server, and I will completely change your mind on how good boxers are. I guarantee it. Infact most of the time noone even knows I'm boxing unless I tell them...
End of the day I understand YOU might be a skilled boxer; but doesn't mean most people are less skilled then you for not boxing. We have no figures; we have no facts here. But the physical reality of boxing makes it alot less likely. (unless you cheat)
(Edit: Felt my previous statement was too long and too derailing).
zewtastic said:To restate. In any game where multiple accounts are possible. This is a moot point.
Pantheon is allowing multiple acounts (how could they stop it). Therefor - Moot Point.
Not so much a moot point as you say. Just because Protf will allow boxing so a lot of people will have multiple accounts it is the people who have a single account that makes this point .
If VR would let you play multiple characters from a single account-which is never going to happen because it stifles thier cash flow. I will only play one account at a time. I have limited skills in the computer field and my typing finger-singular-can only work one keyboard at a time. I have in the past used my wifes account along with mine but the only thing I did was sit her toon close and drain some exp for her to catch up when she was not able to get online.
So again I hope they tie the rep to the toon and not the account
I can't tell if this topic is about character and account reputation, serious players having one or more accounts or mboxing.
To address the serious player nonsense. Someone said a lot of players have more than one account. Define a lot of players. More than 10? 100? 1,000? In the MMO market 1,000 players isn't a lot. Its very little as far as percentages. You'll need to hit hundreds of thousands to be considered a lot. Players with mulitple accounts are probably in the minority.
Flapp said:lol MOST of the statement couldn't be any more WRONG. in that group I would have a halfassed tank and halfassed heals. No thank you. you box, I won't be asking for a group.
if I get into a group and see people are boxing, I will leave.
I'm really confused by what you consider a half assed tank and healer. If the tank is tanking... and the healer is healing... how are either of those half assed?
Porygon said:Flapp said:lol MOST of the statement couldn't be any more WRONG. in that group I would have a halfassed tank and halfassed heals. No thank you. you box, I won't be asking for a group.
if I get into a group and see people are boxing, I will leave.
I'm really confused by what you consider a half assed tank and healer. If the tank is tanking... and the healer is healing... how are either of those half assed?
A simple situation would be : Tank and spank time, everything goes right, then : Unexpected adds come and start smacking the group, jumping from players to players. The mezzer can't get them pinned at all time, and the "tank" need to grab some of them to alliege the pressure, and the "healer" need to heal players to avoid death, would it be the mezzer (to pin adds for long), the tank (to keep the group alive by keeping unexpected mobs on him untill they are mezzed), or the healer himself (to last the whole fight). Even if you ignore all other DPS, or OT, you can't achieve this situation as a boxer. You will wipe because you will have to choose between getting things right on the tank or the healer, but not both.
That's a tedious situation, where even full groups can wipe because it's unexpected, stressfull, and will kill red bars really fast. But as a boxer ? You can't win, unless there is a one button mez every mob at the same time solution.
Isaya said:zewtastic said:To restate. In any game where multiple accounts are possible. This is a moot point.
Pantheon is allowing multiple acounts (how could they stop it). Therefor - Moot Point.
Not so much a moot point as you say. Just because Protf will allow boxing so a lot of people will have multiple accounts it is the people who have a single account that makes this point .
If VR would let you play multiple characters from a single account-which is never going to happen because it stifles thier cash flow. I will only play one account at a time. I have limited skills in the computer field and my typing finger-singular-can only work one keyboard at a time. I have in the past used my wifes account along with mine but the only thing I did was sit her toon close and drain some exp for her to catch up when she was not able to get online.
So again I hope they tie the rep to the toon and not the account
Nothing you said refuted my point.
Bronsun said:I can't tell if this topic is about character and account reputation, serious players having one or more accounts or mboxing.
To address the serious player nonsense. Someone said a lot of players have more than one account. Define a lot of players. More than 10? 100? 1,000? In the MMO market 1,000 players isn't a lot. Its very little as far as percentages. You'll need to hit hundreds of thousands to be considered a lot. Players with mulitple accounts are probably in the minority.
It is a slippery topic.
Here is part of the history that explains how so many people actually eneded up having numerous accounts.
Those that played EQ1 had to have an SoE account. Many of those went on to play EQ2 and Vanguard. At somepoint with SOE All Access account you could play all those games for the same single price.
Adding a 2nd SoE account was easy and became necessary for games such as EQ1, EQ2 and Vanguard if you simply wanted:
- A way to quickly teleport your toons around.
- Have a buff bot instead of paying for buffs, and as a source for income as a buff bot.
- Play all the crafting/harvesting types.
- Store more money than 10pp/character on vanguard. (a ridiculous limitation)
- Have multiple houses. Another limitation on Vanguard as houses took physical virtual space in the persistent world.
There are many more esoteric reasons.
Players with multiple accounts were not all just filling out their camp group, in some fashion I suspect very few did that. It's too much work. And those kinds of advanced multi-box macro programs that you see in EQ1 now did not come into existence until many years later.
Players with multiple accounts were getting around built-in game restrictions in a game they spent more time in than they did at their job. A game they were serious about.
Porygon said:Flapp said:lol MOST of the statement couldn't be any more WRONG. in that group I would have a halfassed tank and halfassed heals. No thank you. you box, I won't be asking for a group.
if I get into a group and see people are boxing, I will leave.
I'm really confused by what you consider a half assed tank and healer. If the tank is tanking... and the healer is healing... how are either of those half assed?
you seriously can't be that clueless can you? You get into an intense situation where you get 3 adds and the tank needs to taunt them off players but everyone also all need heals at the same time.
you CAN NOT DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME. a full devoted GOOD cleric might not be able to heal thru that add situation. So now my healer is also responsible for gathering mobs and getting them taunted while Mez is getting resisted, or broken. Just because you "think" you are good, doesn't mean you are. I will leave every single group with boxers. I seriously hope they have a No Boxing server at launch.
Porygon said:splitpawthanos said:Haha, Boxers are so superior to solo players that my assassin used to take out whole boxed groups solo when pvp first came out in EQ2 :)
Noone is talking about pvp. The fact that you would even bring up pvp to try and display that you are better kind of silly. I mean cmon.
lol what? how else would he prove that?
Edit for clarification: pve isn't hard
Player Reputation should be account wide, and that reputation should be easily spotted without a lot of hassle to the average player as they meet other players. All interactions should count towards the reputation with a positive score unless someone reports, or blocks and overturns their score point against the offending player.
1. I’d suggest a system that has a visual display that signals to the observer an overall score of the positive or negative rep obtained by the player from all characters on that account. Something like below.
2. The System;
A: When Player A chooses to (Block,Report,kick from group ect) Player B, player A will be able to select why from a list of choices, such as
2a. The Player may see the Reputation Data or another could inspect them. The Data shown includes all characters on the Account, but its not necessary to display to the inspector what those other character names are.
So what counts as an interaction? Grouping,Buying/Selling directly, Messaging privately/Directly ect..Not just passing by in the town square.
There are obvious issues such as guilds spamming bad rep on an individual, but there are options to dealing with that, such as members of a guild share the same weight as an individual reporting someone, or other ways I’m sure.
Just my 2 cents
I would have to say no to having reputation tied to a whole account. I think it should be just tied to one character. This will be my first game like this. I have played D&D growing up, played the smallest bit of P99 but I only got into WoW at Wrath, so my MMO and RPG fields aren't too filled out but there is a lot (to me at least) experience there. When I think of having stuff tied to an account as a whole, I think of newer people as well as people that have made mistakes. I believe they deserve another chance.
When I started P99, I wasn't aware of ANY of the stuff that was in the game, the play nice policy, the way people interacted, the way mobs worked, none of that. I remember getting into a small bit of trouble with my necro and my fiance, who had played a lot of EQ growing up, had warned me about taking on too many mobs. I did the one thing I thought might get them off; run. So I booked it. and kept running and he was irritated but amused, I couldn't understand why they wouldn't stop chasing me. It wasn't until he told me that mobs didn't leave you until you were either dead or zoned, and then there as the run back of them. I felt awful, and the people on the server were NOT happy with me. trying to explain that I was new...well didn't go over well either at that point...some accepted it, some were really mad that I had run by and gotten them killed. It was a disaster, and from then on I kind of just stayed on my ranger. If any of my information had of been tied to both characters though my account, I'm sure the ones that were super angry would have found me and made a newbie mistake quite worse.
I think having a rep tied to a character rather than an account is a lot better, if anything just because people makes mistakes. Now if we are talking about faction rep, I think that should be character bound as well and not so mch account wide. What if you want one character nice with Group A and another not so nice with Group A. Not only does it give me a choice on how to play my characters, but also who I want faction with. I can shape my character as I see fit, and not have to worry about the factions of another because it's tied to account.
Now I have seen some talk about boxing and multiple accounts...and while I'm all for allowing people to have multiple accounts...boxing is just not something I can get behind. If someoen wants to pay for two accounts, great, I'm glad they have that disposable income; but with boxing...honestly no real good comes from it. To be really good you have to get key binding crap so that you can hit one key that hits a set of keys and a whole bunch of code-based crap which, lets face it isn't all that fair. It's technically cheating in my eyes. Though this feels like a completely different topic for a completely different threat lol.
In short, I don't think rep should be tied to an account, faction based or otherwise.
I say yes to Account Wide repuation, honestly i feel like a small mistake like the one above this post is something that could happen, but honestly i bet by tomorrow most people by the next day would completely forget who you were, I'm sure if they did remember you for it is becuase it became a trend of something you did rather than a one time event, people aren't out to get you and try to achieve you to get a bad rep over a simple mistake, that just sin't realistic.
I can understand how some people can not like account wide repuation, but don't blow what you think is a negative completely out of proportion that it simply isn't realistic and therefore should be not even considered a negative becuase you think it should be.
HemlockReaper said:Player Reputation should be account wide, and that reputation should be easily spotted without a lot of hassle to the average player as they meet other players. All interactions should count towards the reputation with a positive score unless someone reports, or blocks and overturns their score point against the offending player.
1. I’d suggest a system that has a visual display that signals to the observer an overall score of the positive or negative rep obtained by the player from all characters on that account. Something like below.
2. The System;
A: When Player A chooses to (Block,Report,kick from group ect) Player B, player A will be able to select why from a list of choices, such as
2a. The Player may see the Reputation Data or another could inspect them. The Data shown includes all characters on the Account, but its not necessary to display to the inspector what those other character names are.
So what counts as an interaction? Grouping,Buying/Selling directly, Messaging privately/Directly ect..Not just passing by in the town square.
There are obvious issues such as guilds spamming bad rep on an individual, but there are options to dealing with that, such as members of a guild share the same weight as an individual reporting someone, or other ways I’m sure.
Just my 2 cents
Man everything I have ever seen you post makes me want to puke. You want to control everyone around you to suit how you feel the game should be played. I have a better idea, lets just pin stars on the armor of everyone you dont like in game...
Do you really want this game to be immersive like you claim in other post? Guess what, any world is going to have aholes in it. You need to get off your high horse and understand there is going to be 1000 ways to play this game and you won't like all of them.
In short, rep should be character name only. People make mistakes and have bad days/weeks. I am not going to condone trashing someones entire account because of that. You should take a hit for sure, on one character.
Rep can be easily tricked by large guilds, do you want to get -60 reputation because you are competing on spawns with a guy from a huge guild that will incite his guild to negatively report you ?
I thought games like ESO or GW2 where account is publicly shown taught something to gamers...
Hate Hate Hate
That rep system can be so easily manipulated. Hard pass for that sort of popularity contest. Typically only negative reports get reported.... this system would be completely lopsided. Can I buy positive feedback with in game currency ? ... I'm sure I can.
As for the account wide thing I would rather it not be, although I do understand where you're coming from. I hope there is no way to discern which characters share accounts.
How about reports for gold selling just go to the GM, who investigates, then perma bans the account... I don't need the satisfaction of me seeing someones ticker go down a few ticks - no, I want them banned.
It's been stated many times that we won't have the kind of reputation system alluded to by HemlockReaper. Here is a quote from Kilsin:
"We will not have a rating, reputation or ranking system, we have made this very clear." -- https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3210/character-reputation/view/page/3
There are many players who are vehemently against any sort of account-wide tracking, even when it comes to associating alts with mains. This topic was discussed quite a bit earlier this year on this thread: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/10792/alts-and-knowing-who-is-who/view/page/1
oneADseven said:It's been stated many times that we won't have the kind of reputation system alluded to by HemlockReaper. Here is a quote from Kilsin:
"We will not have a rating, reputation or ranking system, we have made this very clear." -- https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3210/character-reputation/view/page/3
There are many players who are vehemently against any sort of account-wide tracking, even when it comes to associating alts with mains. This topic was discussed quite a bit earlier this year on this thread: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/10792/alts-and-knowing-who-is-who/view/page/1
Ya I figured 99.9% this might be the case. Thanks for the info.
Bronsun said:I can't tell if this topic is about character and account reputation, serious players having one or more accounts or mboxing.
To address the serious player nonsense. Someone said a lot of players have more than one account. Define a lot of players. More than 10? 100? 1,000? In the MMO market 1,000 players isn't a lot. Its very little as far as percentages. You'll need to hit hundreds of thousands to be considered a lot. Players with mulitple accounts are probably in the minority.
Yeah this topic seems to be a mess. To address the title I am fine with character reputation rather than account wide rep. As for the ongoing discussion of multiboxing I am strongly against the practice since it goes directly against a community group focused MMORPG. Players with multiple accounts are rare in games that require a subscription and they are extremely common in FTP games. If it is not a bannable practice I expect a few disruptive multiboxers even in a subscription based MMO. Most multiboxers are using various software and scripts too, sometimes even using bots (especially heal bots!). It's odd to see multiboxers talk about their great skill, without the software and botting they would be lucky to run a 3 character group with any efficiency. Multiboxers are definitely a minority in subscription MMOs but they are still very noticable especially when full groups are hogging content actual players could be doing.
In the perfect-ish world the ranking system HemlockReaper proposed would be great (in the -ishless everyone would be nice, love spreading nudist ;-) ), but unfortunatelly we live in THIS world and such mechanic would be quickly abused by many. I however do feel that reputation should be account based and to ensure that I'd like to see account bound Surname and character bound names - so even if someone switches chars they will be recognized if they do many very good/evil acts.