Iksar said:For a first character (especially), I think it makes complete sense that you cannot start out as, for example, an ogre wizard. There are no wizard guilds or other resources for that kind of thing within Broken Maw, where each ogre player character starts their journey after having been raised within the confines of the area.
After that? Sure I could see progeny allowing more exotic (but perhaps not 100% open "all/all") options provided the parent character has undertaken specific steps like maxing specific racial factions, likely including whichever guild/order/group trains members of a desired class and maybe an epic quest as well. After which you could make a second character that is an ogre wizard that starts in whichever city the parent did all that work in.
This would be fantastic. For the record ... I love the lore of Pantheon. It's completely reasonable to use it as a "setting" for the world that we'll eventually find ourselves in. Once we're in there though ... we should be able to write our own story, within reason. There are a lot of people who would really appreciate being able to do that and if the requirements for doing so are epic, that will make it feel that much more meaningful anyway. I have seen exotic race/class combinations in a couple MMO's in the past and it always felt special.
Naunet said:Feyshtey said:And if anyone can play any race with any class, the races really don't have much personality at all.Eh, disagree. But to each their own. My point was that Bronsun's implication that race/class options are just "feature creep" isn't accurate.
Naunet,
It absolutely is feature creep for three main reasons. 1. Depending on how many armor sets there have already been created to this point. The dev's would have to spend valuable time altering every set to fit each new race. That could be thousands of pieces of art. 2. Create areas in each of the cities to accomodate that new class. 3. Potential ( note I say potential ) quest lines for those new classes in the surrounding area. Quests that weren't even being considered for those races. In other words countless hours of time.
I'm sure others can think of additional development time sinks that would drag out development. As I said, if its something the dev's are considering down the line then that is wonderful for players who want it. I'm just against adding it now. Hell, the dev's still want to add Bards and Necromancers. All this ADDITIONAL stuff takes time and can be addressed later.
I know gamers today are spoiled by free to play crap and studios with enormous budgets. This isn't supposed to compete with World of Warcraft and VR doesn't have the people power that Blizzard does to churn out work as quickly. So they need to work smarter with their resources.
oneADseven said:Riqq said:Its actually very realistic, and only someone under the age of 25 would make such a ridiculous assumption, Im a machinist because its what i excel at, im not basketball player, im not a drive thru clerk, im not a sales rep, im a machinist because i dont have the desire/skillset to do the other things, and being brought up around mechanical objects its more instilled in my heart to do what i do.
Being brought up a certain way or having things instilled in your heart isn't completely based on your race. Imagine being brought up that same way and having natural talent to be a machinist but learning that you could never actually be one because of your race. Doesn't make sense at all.
You just use the word Imagine.....hahahaha
((Imagine being brought up that same way and having natural talent to be a machinist but learning that you could never actually be one because of your race. Doesn't make sense at all.))
Perhaps not in this universe, where machines aren't sentient (yet) and have no opinions about who should serve them. Or how they should be served.
Gods in Pantheon, on the other hand, are quite likely to have such opinions.
I know things can change moving forward, and that this is a dead horse topic, but I still want to think that some things can still be made possible.
When we think progeny, we all think exotic combinations. What if it was possible to start a character; halfling warrior, travel to thronefast, express interest in becoming a cleric at the clerics guild, and have them laugh in your face. So you spend time learning all you can about the cleric guild, their expeditions, and grinding all quests and factions that benefit them until they finally can't ignore you any more and offer a position as an alterboy.
ding! Lvl 1 halfling cleric! All previous skills lost.
Then you say, I never wanted to be a cleric, I'm using you to become A paladin. Yay I fit within the lore! So you go to the paladin hall and eventually, ding lvl1 halfling paladin!
When you see exotic combinations, you know the accomplishments and sacrifices they made.
Another example that is relevant to the discussion would be an ogre Druid that rolls 18 int and goes to the gnomes and tries to become a wiZard. Faction , quests, algnment altered through gameplay, and the infrastructure thing is solved because you can use the guild hall.
Larr said:I know things can change moving forward, and that this is a dead horse topic, but I still want to think that some things can still be made possible.
When we think progeny, we all think exotic combinations. What if it was possible to start a character; halfling warrior, travel to thronefast, express interest in becoming a cleric at the clerics guild, and have them laugh in your face. So you spend time learning all you can about the cleric guild, their expeditions, and grinding all quests and factions that benefit them until they finally can't ignore you any more and offer a position as an alterboy.
ding! Lvl 1 halfling cleric! All previous skills lost.
Then you say, I never wanted to be a cleric, I'm using you to become A paladin. Yay I fit within the lore! So you go to the paladin hall and eventually, ding lvl1 halfling paladin!
When you see exotic combinations, you know the accomplishments and sacrifices they made.
Another example that is relevant to the discussion would be an ogre Druid that rolls 18 int and goes to the gnomes and tries to become a wiZard. Faction , quests, algnment altered through gameplay, and the infrastructure thing is solved because you can use the guild hall.
I'm completely OK with that. I think that would be an awesome system.
I'd level to 50 just to de-level to 1, and start fresh as the combination I really want to play.
BeaverBiscuit said: Now does lore/logic have something to do with it? Sure! Once they decide paladins should only have a couple races for balance reasons, they probably pick the races with lore and logic.That does not mean that lore is foremost. Any secret lore we do not have will be changed to better support balance. In addition, you could theoretically change our currently available lore to a point it isn't even recognizable with enough details. We really don't have much.
Oh! And Skar monks.
If Skar monks don't make sense then neither do Skar warriors.
Dulu said: Skar Monks aren’t in the game? Wow, way to drop the ball VR. Iksar monks were so popular in EQ.
Iksar Monk popularity had less to do with people loving the Iksar race coupled with Monk class, and much more to do with the stat min/max and the racial regen of Iksar being great for the monk class. Same could be said of Iksar Necro.
I don't know how many people I talked to during the Kunark era that actually disliked the Iksar looks, that deeply loathed the Iksar starting area, and were really frustrated with their banking/vendor options gamewide, and yet would tell me (Erudite Necro) that I was gimp because I didn't have the Iksar regen.
kreed99 said: I would actually like to see humans NOT able to be some of the classes. But thats just me....
It's only fair, if they're going to go with the race/class limitations. There's nothing special about humans that would make them innately more diverse than any other race. (On the other side of the argument, why do humans get to be super diverse but all other races are shoehorned into a single, narrow culture?)
Bronsun said:First, Archetypes are standard and stereotypical for a reason. They are archetypes lol
Second, DnD has lawful good, and evil, but I don't think Pantheon is following this and I'm completely fine with that. You can always just pretend you're evil and roleplay. Will that work? :D
I agree, if you take a Paladin, change what it is, then it's not a Paladin any more. Then you have to put a adjective in front of the word Paladin. "Fallen" Paladin, "Dark" Paladin,
I am all in for Prestige classes where a class evolves into something else, overtime, though experiences, faction change, learning a major skill, or line of skills that, turn your higher level character into something else. Again, it becomes something else.
Why do people keep bringing up new arguements about race/class matrix when one literally just got done arguing over not even a week ago? To me the race/class subject should be treated like the progeny system, it's alrdy been decided they are going to use it, and until we can actually do testing on it, it should be a topic to not talk about. Kilsin clearly said on the last one they aren't changing it til testing is done and so until that time is past there is no reason to speculate or prove what is wrong or right, so let this topic go until than for the community sake and possibly the devs from having to respond to yet another race/class matrix discussion.
Don't worry Dulu. I quoted you in that other discussion. When the forums are upgraded you'll likely receive a ping notifying you of such which would help the flow of information and thread management. Until then, having a vested interest in something you care about is perfectly reasonable. I think most people would rather see that than complacency ... as soon as you stop caring, you no longer have a reason to log in and post your thoughts. Keep on keeping on!
