I was reading this:
https://steamcommunity.com/games/221410/announcements/detail/1696055855739350561
And remembered that the only announcement VR had made was a very careful, typical PR-like generic one; amounting to pretty much "naah, doesn't look it".
Given how the game appears to grow and grow (in budget, people working on it, etc.), alongside with angel funding and an increasing playerbase (encouraging said growth), has Linux been reconsidered?
Especially given Steam's improving support?
* Quoting for some reference, emphasis mine:
"today we are releasing the Beta of a new and improved version of Steam Play to all Linux users! It includes a modified distribution of Wine, called Proton, to provide compatibility with Windows game titles. Here are some of the improvements it brings to the table:
What Steam does is irrelevant since Pantheon will not be available on Steam. It will have its own separate launcher. For a while, VR's stance on Linux has been that they may support it if the resources are there and there is enough demand for it in the community. But regardless, that won't be until after launch. That stance is unlikely to change since the PC client and potentially Mac will keep them busy until launch. Further down the line though, anything is possible!
From Kilsin:
"...we will be delivering Pantheon on PC to the Windows platform and most likely Mac if we get enough support and have the resources spare but Linux is not currently planned for the release client due to the extra resources needed and lack of interest shown so far, I know this will bum a few people like yourself out, so all I can say is hopefully if we get enough support for Linux and get more funding, we may have the extra resources available after launch to support this platform but it is not currently being considered."
(Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5179/linux-support)
Spluffen said:Sorry for kinda piggybacking off of this but is there a particular reason for Pantheon not being avaliable on steam?
i am pretty sure Steam would take a cut (30%?) of the sale. Steam is 100% unnecessary. it is Always better to buy direct vs throwing a middle-man into the mix.
I had an issue with Crowns via steam ESO account. took me days and days of conversation for ESO to blame Steam and Steam to blame ESO.
So I cancelled my Steam account and bought directly from ESO.
Also, if Steam were to "go under" (out of business) you would lose every single game you bought thru that company.
I think a MacOS client would be 10X more beneficial vs Linux. Apple sells over 5 million Macs per Quarter, every single quarter, and has sold 5 mill/quarter for Years and years now. So there are a billion more macs than Linux machines.
Windows has 89.5% of the market
MacOS has 11% of the market
Linux has .5% of the market
Bazgrim said:Further down the line though, anything is possible!
...
Are you being paid for your services? You better.
Bazgrim said:What Steam does is irrelevant
Unless of course it would allow for an entire OS to be supported, sans any dev manhours.
Which might, just might, have been the point of this thread. Perhaps even instigating the question in the first place :)
The intricacies of life, at times they can be overwhelming.
Aenra said:Bazgrim said:Further down the line though, anything is possible!
...
Are you being paid for your services? You better.
Bazgrim said:What Steam does is irrelevant
Unless of course it would allow for an entire OS to be supported, sans any dev manhours.
Which might, just might, have been the point of this thread. Perhaps even instigating the question in the first place :)
The intricacies of life, at times they can be overwhelming.
Steam for Linux isn't doing full OS emulation. It is doing a heavily modified Wine implementation. Wine specifically stands for (Wine Is Not an Emulator (Linux loves their recursive abbreviations)).
I would LOVE to see a Linux client. That being said, as Bazgrim said, Pantheon won't be available on Steam, therefore Steam won't provide support for it on Linux. Steam used to have their own heavily modified Linux variant called SteamOS, but it appears to be dying a quiet death.
Bazgrim said:What Steam does is irrelevant since Pantheon will not be available on Steam. It will have its own separate launcher. For a while, VR's stance on Linux has been that they may support it if the resources are there and there is enough demand for it in the community. But regardless, that won't be until after launch. That stance is unlikely to change since the PC client and potentially Mac will keep them busy until launch. Further down the line though, anything is possible!
From Kilsin:
"...we will be delivering Pantheon on PC to the Windows platform and most likely Mac if we get enough support and have the resources spare but Linux is not currently planned for the release client due to the extra resources needed and lack of interest shown so far, I know this will bum a few people like yourself out, so all I can say is hopefully if we get enough support for Linux and get more funding, we may have the extra resources available after launch to support this platform but it is not currently being considered."
(Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5179/linux-support)
Thanks Baz, while we haven't made our mind up on Steam, we still have not changed our mind on the launching platforms, Windows first, possible Mac and as Baz said, further down the track anything is possible but it just isn't on the cards right now.
Steam has both advantages and disadvantages for both player and company. Disadvantages to the player include having more things running at once (can degrade performance), higher prices and risk that Steam will stop their support - perhaps abruptly. I am not saying this is likely but anything is possible.
As I am sure VR has considered - advantages and disadvantages change over time.
Perhaps at release Steam is a bad idea. The only advantage to VR is greater marketing and they expect enough people pouring in at release that they prefer the numbers more controlled. Especially if there is a free trial option and most of the hordes will never give them revenue. Maybe more focused customers (to have heard of the game at all implies some focus) is what they want the first week.
But maybe after things calm down they would love a second flood of people into the now half empty and thoroughly tested starter areas.
Maybe announcing release will give good publicity - and going on Steam will give good publicity - and they prefer a second bump in the public awareness after they have benefitted from the first bump.
Maybe more people on Steam will look seriously right after the game goes on Steam than at any other time - and they want them to read how it is highly successful with many players, not read that it hasn't even come out yet and if they sign up on Steam they can start playing in a month.
In other words not being on Steam at release may not be inconsistent with a decision to go on Steam later. Not meaning a reversal of position - meaning that the same considerations dictate different results at different times.
I'm guessing that if they do decide to use steam it will be decided before they launch. I find it very unlikely that they launch the game and then only after decide to start using steam. From my experience... if you are going to use steam you need to commit to steam, and if your not going to use steam, then you commit to not using steam. Most games that tried to implement through steam after they already have non-steam version have seen many problems (re: Flapp's ESO comments above)
Personally I don't think they need steam, but I do wonder if this would allow them to take advantage of steams new voip features. If you can rapidly create a steam voip channel for people in your Pantheon group or raid, this could be an advantage. Even if guilds tend to use Discord, Teamspeak, Ventrilo, or some other service... having steam voip for pug groups might be useful.
Hopefully since 'steam' was mentioned in the OP thread title this is not 'off topic' since I didn't really respond about Linux support since that's already been answered so I don't think I need to make any comment :-)
Kalok said:Steam for Linux isn't doing full OS emulation ... I would LOVE to see a Linux client.
That's not the point though; outcome-wise, you've got the potential of full support, without any manhours (or wages) on VR's side of things, both sides win ... and yeah, me too! :)
Now i can of course understand Visionary Realms'.. reluctance? On Steam integration (they do get a hefty cut out of it) under normal circumstances. The cost-to-benefit ratio having slightly shifted, i just thought i'd enquire.
Kilsin said:Thanks Baz, while we haven't made our mind up on Steam
Careful whom you thank, fanboys can do as much damage as good; twenty years later, it appears we've still to learn this; he told me, and i quote: "Pantheon will not be available on Steam"
Whereas officially, it appears the answer is quite different.
What if i'd gone on to quote him on each and every forum i happen to frequent?
Regardless, thanks for replying Ben; appreciate it :)
It's very ignorant of VR to only target Microsoft Windows. If this game doesn't work on Wine on Archlinux then I wont be playing. Then to think of the all the interoperable API this game is using that should help to bring it to other platforms and then to hear it's not, is crazy. VR should seriously consider Android and Nintendo Switch(if they can get keyboard and mouse drivers.) If put on Nintendo Switch, you'd have millions of players in the first week trying the game. VR will be lucky to get 300K players on Windows.
Bradley said:This thread is getting quite heated, or should I say ..... [steamy]?
If Pantheon is only on Windows, then word of mouth will be its success for failure. I wasn't trying to be hard on VR or Pantheon, just truths. An open source client would bring the game to everyeone, but if VR wants to enclose the code, then they'd be prudent to bring a client for Android and or Nintendo Switch, so that you have the mobile users onboard or even at a professional level when they're at home and don't own a Windows based system. Homes with Windows gaming rigs are becoming uncomon in this era.
rencil said:It's very ignorant of VR to only target Microsoft Windows. If this game doesn't work on Wine on Archlinux then I wont be playing. Then to think of the all the interoperable API this game is using that should help to bring it to other platforms and then to hear it's not, is crazy. VR should seriously consider Android and Nintendo Switch(if they can get keyboard and mouse drivers.) If put on Nintendo Switch, you'd have millions of players in the first week trying the game. VR will be lucky to get 300K players on Windows.
Given that they've stated that they are structured in such a way as to make the game what they would consider successful at the tens of thousands, I think that they would be ecstatic to have 300,000 subs.
That being said, MMOs, being heavily keyboard and mouse driven, probably wouldn't "translate" well to touch screen and devices with a minimum level if input support (such as "joystick and a few buttons only).
rencil said:Bradley said:This thread is getting quite heated, or should I say ..... [steamy]?
If Pantheon is only on Windows, then word of mouth will be its success for failure. I wasn't trying to be hard on VR or Pantheon, just truths. An open source client would bring the game to everyeone, but if VR wants to enclose the code, then they'd be prudent to bring a client for Android and or Nintendo Switch, so that you have the mobile users onboard or even at a professional level when they're at home and don't own a Windows based system. Homes with Windows gaming rigs are becoming uncomon in this era.
Your definition of "success" seems to be much higher than their own internal definition.
Is the Unity engine even available on the Switch and Android?
Homes with Windows gaming rigs are becoming uncomon in this era.
Seconding Kalok I remain extremely perplexed by this assertion. We are talking about "Gamers" not "Casual people trading a computer for light systems" like tablets, smartphones and such.
Really, Gaming on Linux or Mac aren't either popular, except if you are yourself in a Pro linux environment where all your friends are opting for linux but represent nothing like the standart gamer setup.
I'd say what is "success" in a sub based game ? It's not to sell millions of copies over hundreds of gaming systems. It's to keep thousands of player over the course of a game, buying it initialy and keeping their sub going to cover the server and development cost for more content, etc...
This isn't angry or flappy bird, not to sound rude, but their economic design has been pretty clear over there, and I don't think a console / Android portaway is any good for a community and communication based game.
It's true a lot of people are dropping computer over there, because they are complex and people want simplicity. On this level, they would have dropped linux even before, and they represent a part of the market that has nothing to do with Pantheon.
rencil said:It's very ignorant of VR to only target Microsoft Windows. If this game doesn't work on Wine on Archlinux then I wont be playing. Then to think of the all the interoperable API this game is using that should help to bring it to other platforms and then to hear it's not, is crazy. VR should seriously consider Android and Nintendo Switch(if they can get keyboard and mouse drivers.) If put on Nintendo Switch, you'd have millions of players in the first week trying the game. VR will be lucky to get 300K players on Windows.
Frankly if they cannot find succes on the PC platform then anything would be a huge waste of time and resources.
Unity is versatile. Porting to other platforms is a 'good' problem to have.
If Pantheon can find success on the PC, then other platforms become much more attractive. Typically though they would hand that project off to experts for that.
Kalok said:rencil said:Bradley said:This thread is getting quite heated, or should I say ..... [steamy]?
If Pantheon is only on Windows, then word of mouth will be its success for failure. I wasn't trying to be hard on VR or Pantheon, just truths. An open source client would bring the game to everyeone, but if VR wants to enclose the code, then they'd be prudent to bring a client for Android and or Nintendo Switch, so that you have the mobile users onboard or even at a professional level when they're at home and don't own a Windows based system. Homes with Windows gaming rigs are becoming uncomon in this era.
Your definition of "success" seems to be much higher than their own internal definition.
Is the Unity engine even available on the Switch and Android?
Gonna have to go with Kalok here. Not sure what your criteria for success is.
I'm sure for VR it's keeping the lights on and not having to lay anyone off. Pretty much the definition for any business.
And if anything mobile would be the hot platform to port to. Mobile loves Unity.
rencil said:It's very ignorant of VR to only target Microsoft Windows. If this game doesn't work on Wine on Archlinux then I wont be playing. Then to think of the all the interoperable API this game is using that should help to bring it to other platforms and then to hear it's not, is crazy. VR should seriously consider Android and Nintendo Switch(if they can get keyboard and mouse drivers.) If put on Nintendo Switch, you'd have millions of players in the first week trying the game. VR will be lucky to get 300K players on Windows.
Keeping in mind that Pantheon is pretty much an Indy game..not financed by Sony, Ea or Activision. Finances come from backers like you and me..and perhaps an angel investor or few. Therefore their budget needs to stay on track with what is most expected and useful for what VR aims at accomplishing.
If a third party..go between sucks up too much profit from sales as opposed to VR having their own launcher, then that would have to be thought about. They haven't ruled Steam out. But they haven't said yes to Steam yet either. Nothing ignorant about this at all...finances/budget require a steady hand and thoughtful choices. As for more platforms after launch...if the budget can allow for it, it will happen, as for 300K players...I am positive that VR would be very happy with that number. I do believe when Everquest launched they had many less than that..and EQ is going into their 19th year. Eve Online doesn't have Wow numbers..and they have survived quite well over the years. :)
Cana
rencil said:It's very ignorant of VR to only target Microsoft Windows. If this game doesn't work on Wine on Archlinux then I wont be playing. Then to think of the all the interoperable API this game is using that should help to bring it to other platforms and then to hear it's not, is crazy. VR should seriously consider Android and Nintendo Switch(if they can get keyboard and mouse drivers.) If put on Nintendo Switch, you'd have millions of players in the first week trying the game. VR will be lucky to get 300K players on Windows.
Hrmmm.... *I* would like to play Pantheon on a Linux machine as well to be honest!, but... to say I "will not be playing" if they don't give me that option.... /swallow
LOL ... Umm.. well... good luck with that. We might see you down the road a couple years after release? ;)