I too used to sit in LOIO with my halfling warrior LFG and solo, poorly. For exactly the same reasons you stated.
Lost Dungeons of Norrath really made finding a low level group a lot easier for me just because of how that expansion was set-up. Sadly, I think that expansion opened the door for instance-ing in the EQ universe and that had it's own set of problems.
My hope, with this game, is I'm getting in on the ground floor and have way more experience with MMOs so finding groups and starting groups will be easier this time around. I know they haven't talked about the progeny system at all in the most recent streams but my hope is that the progeny system is a way to add replay value to leveling up again and will keep low level grouping viable 6, 9, 12 months post-launch.
Can't wait to find out.
wildenightwolf said:As for groupage... I like grouping with my friends and guild, but I also enjoy the random PUG and especially helping lower levels or newbies. You make lots of great connections and new friends stepping away from your comfort zone in MMORPG's. Now, granted, as a role player this can be both easy and challenging. Some find grouping with RPer's annoying and avoid us. Many others will find us entertaining and sometimes the spirit is infectious and they take a shot at RP themselves.
Either way, I'm excited to meet new faces, start new stories and go on adventures with all kinds of people.
Awesome, positive post, Wild. I've found that those with this kind of attitude tend to end up spending game time with the others who think the same.
Anecdotally, it seems common in the RP community.
I agree with the sentiments here about starting one's own group. Take charge!
fongwoo said:I too used to sit in LOIO with my halfling warrior LFG and solo, poorly. For exactly the same reasons you stated.
Lost Dungeons of Norrath really made finding a low level group a lot easier for me just because of how that expansion was set-up. Sadly, I think that expansion opened the door for instance-ing in the EQ universe and that had it's own set of problems.
My hope, with this game, is I'm getting in on the ground floor and have way more experience with MMOs so finding groups and starting groups will be easier this time around. I know they haven't talked about the progeny system at all in the most recent streams but my hope is that the progeny system is a way to add replay value to leveling up again and will keep low level grouping viable 6, 9, 12 months post-launch.
Can't wait to find out.
The good news is that people who are attracted to this type of game like to group so finding others to play with should not be a problem. If you cant find a group, start one. Send a tell to a tank and healer if you are not one of those classes and fill in the rest as you go. Once you have those 2 classes, people will join you and the group fills up fast. Even in Vanguard when there was a low population I found it easy to get a group.
People that play this game and that do not especially enjoy grouping will quickly learn that there is no very attractive choice. It will be solo to level-cap slowly and painfully and with inferior gear or bite the bullet and look for groups to join. Thus in addition to the people Zaketh mentions that want to group there will be many others that feel compelled to group. The bottom-line is the same - far more people looking for groups than we are used to in other MMOs.
Another factor - in a solo-focused game many people choose classes based on what will play well solo. Often that means DPS. It is *so* hard to heal a mob to death or, as a tank, fight it until it dies of boredom.
In Pantheon a much larger percentage of us will choose a class with grouping in mind. This may be a DPS class of course, but it is *more* likely than in current MMOs to be a healer or tank just because we know that these roles find groups faster. Thus there will be far less of a bunch of DPS forming a group and desperately taking an hour to unsuccessfully spam for a healer or tank.
Just to say it as well, there are some of us who are community-minded enough to purposely set up groups for people that struggle to find them.... if we know that you're struggling. I'm not talking about your run of the mill exp group, but sometimes posting on server forums saying something like "hey, I really would like to finish this quest that needs me to kill the named bandit, is anyone willing to help me with it this weekend?" is a great way to add new people to your friends list.
Kurgon999 said: Here is where I feel I still fail. I suck a text communication, particularly during combat. I hope that Pantheon makes VoIP easy for a PUG. Not everyone can type 100 wpm.
I think they are leaning more towards not having in game voip, since there are so many other options for this outside the game already that do it so well. With Discord you can create a server and then have an invite URL that you can link in the game chat and they can easily join your discord server and you will be voip chatting in no time.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:Kurgon999 said: Here is where I feel I still fail. I suck a text communication, particularly during combat. I hope that Pantheon makes VoIP easy for a PUG. Not everyone can type 100 wpm.
I think they are leaning more towards not having in game voip, since there are so many other options for this outside the game already that do it so well. With Discord you can create a server and then have an invite URL that you can link in the game chat and they can easily join your discord server and you will be voip chatting in no time.
Agree there is no need with modern voip tools.
There are going to be plenty of overworld enemies that wander around for you to solo. You just won't be adventuring deep into dungeons without help.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:I think they are leaning more towards not having in game voip, since there are so many other options for this outside the game already that do it so well. With Discord you can create a server and then have an invite URL that you can link in the game chat and they can easily join your discord server and you will be voip chatting in no time.
When did they say that? In game voice chat has been a feature for years...
1.10 Will there be a built-in voice chat system?
Yes. While many players may use other chat clients we still want to implement optional voice chat in-game. Most likely you would only hear and be able to chat with people in your group and guild as hearing everyone around you becomes a cacophony of noise.
The simple solution which requires no coding, no art assets or much work at all from anybody in VR: 1) Make more friends, 2) have a reputation as being the best example of how your class is played and 3)plan ahead by setting your group for your next session. You'll never have want for needing a group ever again. I really don't mean to come across as snarky, but I'm not wrong in my statement. The more friends you make the greater chance any number of them are online when you are. By having a reputation as a top notch player people will seek you out for groups. And once you have a group going, make plans for the next session to get those same people to log in again and go somewhere together...this ties into #1 as the more people you group with the more friends you'll get. Self reinforcing cycle.
That said, I do understand the desire and need for at least a simple LFG tool which is searchable by people looking for particular classes/levels.
philo said:When did they say that? In game voice chat has been a feature for years...
1.10 Will there be a built-in voice chat system?
Yes. While many players may use other chat clients we still want to implement optional voice chat in-game. Most likely you would only hear and be able to chat with people in your group and guild as hearing everyone around you becomes a cacophony of noise.
The most recent stream Q&A with Brad and Chris, they mention that they currently don't plan on using resources to make an in-game vocie app. Especially since there are so many other variations available at the moment. They said that may change later, after more testing, but for now no plans for in-house VOIP.
wildenightwolf said:philo said:When did they say that? In game voice chat has been a feature for years...
1.10 Will there be a built-in voice chat system?
Yes. While many players may use other chat clients we still want to implement optional voice chat in-game. Most likely you would only hear and be able to chat with people in your group and guild as hearing everyone around you becomes a cacophony of noise.
The most recent stream Q&A with Brad and Chris, they mention that they currently don't plan on using resources to make an in-game vocie app. Especially since there are so many other variations available at the moment. They said that may change later, after more testing, but for now no plans for in-house VOIP.
I'm not going to look it up, but weren't they talking about voice changing? Not in game voice chat. That's what I remember, wasn't that it? That's very different.
I'm sure someone will be by with a link shortly...Baz ;)
But at this point, with all the time frame extensions, that could be something I would be good with scrapping to save time.
Edit: ok, it was easy to look up. Sounds like Brad is having second thoughts about it, likely due to time restraints. They did indeed talk about voice altering as well.
Like I mention, i'd be good with them scrapping it, I'd prefer if everyone didn't use voice...but I get how that doesn't really encourage social interaction amongst the community as much as giving everyone access to voice chat would.
I do think this is one of those things that, if VR has changed their mind in the direction they are going to go with it, they definitely need to keep up on altering the FAQ to reflect that. After info has been in the FAQ for years people tend to expect it to be correct.
They were definitely saying, in the recent stream, that they don't really want to make a voice chat in game when there are so many good third party ones. Brad did say a couple of times something like "if we have to we will", but clearly not a priority and hoping they won't.
To be fair, things have changed greatly over the last few years re. voice chat. It's just not an issue. If you want to use it you can set up a Discord channel for free without even a download (via the web version) in seconds.
Even a year ago it was more complex with needing to download Skype or some such and exchange details and set up 'friends' and whatnot.
Now you have a private channel set up on the fly with short invite links generated - boom - almost instant group only chat. Or whole guild chat. Or whole server chat.
I really wouldn't want VR to waste time re-inventing (and supporting) that wheel.
DagNabbit said:I'm not exactly sure why people tend to favor chat spam over an LFG toggle/UI.
It's not spam. Spam is something completely different.
Many people perefer an LFG chat channel because when it's a toggle you end up people just sending invites without you having any clue what it is they even want to do. A chat channel lets people advertise exactly what their intentions are as both the inviter and the invitee ... and no out-of-the-blue group invites with not a word spoken.
Kurgon999 said:I hope that Pantheon makes VoIP easy for a PUG.
I agree, although there have been a number of people on here complaining that voice chat in the game will "ruin immersion" for them or something. You'll see people go on and on about making the game require socialization and then complain at the thought of actually needing to socialize when grouping up with people.
The answer remains the same really.
If you can't find a group, too bad.
Wait (and beg) some more, until you either give up or are at a point where the mood's gone but hey, group-centric* MMORPG! Hardcore!
*The good with the bad. And like it or not, this is one of them.
And because i haven't read the replies but someone's just bound to post the most inane of comments ever ("you don't have to worry! Am sure that.."), we've over 20 years of this; learn, accept and adapt.
TLDR; this is what you asked for :)
Searril said:Kurgon999 said:I hope that Pantheon makes VoIP easy for a PUG.I agree, although there have been a number of people on here complaining that voice chat in the game will "ruin immersion" for them or something. You'll see people go on and on about making the game require socialization and then complain at the thought of actually needing to socialize when grouping up with people.
You can socialise without voice chat - we've managed it in MMORPGs for 20+ years - and, yes, hearing that elven female wizard 'speak' like a 50-year-old bloke and that scarey Ogre Shadowknight being a squeaky 12-year-old is somewhat immersion damaging.
There is a definite debate because there are opposing preferences for good reason.
I also don't want to hear people screaming at their family or listening to their music or eating there snacks or whatever.
With people that are friends or eventually become friends it tends not to be so bad. There tends to be greater ettiquette applied when in guilds too.
The real debate comes when people start to assume others use voice such that, if you don't, you are excluded from the group. Some using voice will not type everything as well.
FYI: Brad in the last stream expressed his preference for *not* using voice in groups.
I certainly think the game should be designed around text chat with voice being an extra people can elect to use if they want to.
This is an interesting topic, since I will be going into this game alone( maybe my brother if I convince him). Even in Everquest progression severs I went in alone. I played a druid so I could solo while waiting for a group for two hours or so, but in this game, I am not sure how well I can solo as a druid.
However, the most try and true way of getting a group quicker than waiting for a group is make it yourself. I find that if I wait in lfg, as a druid, it would take 1-3 hours to find a group. I figure why not just form a group myself and started forming groups within 20m - an hour, depending on if I can get an enchanter, and am usually set since I know as a druid I can keep a group up, even in the hole back in classic.
Also, since I am a champion pledge, people might want to group with me more, if I get some cool champion title in my name that I can show off, since it will show I am an alpha tester. That usually makes beginners feel more safe with someone who tested the game.
disposalist said:You can socialise without voice chat - we've managed it in MMORPGs for 20+ years - and, yes, hearing that elven female wizard 'speak' like a 50-year-old bloke and that scarey Ogre Shadowknight being a squeaky 12-year-old is somewhat immersion damaging.
There is a definite debate because there are opposing preferences for good reason.
I also don't want to hear people screaming at their family or listening to their music or eating there snacks or whatever.
With people that are friends or eventually become friends it tends not to be so bad. There tends to be greater ettiquette applied when in guilds too.
The real debate comes when people start to assume others use voice such that, if you don't, you are excluded from the group. Some using voice will not type everything as well.
FYI: Brad in the last stream expressed his preference for *not* using voice in groups.
I certainly think the game should be designed around text chat with voice being an extra people can elect to use if they want to.
Absolutely. I do it almost every time I play p1999. Spent 4 hours dungeon crawling in Guk last night, and typing worked just fine. Spent 4 hours in Mistmoore the night before, typing worked just fine. As you say, I have voice options available with friens, guild, etc, but in PUGs, grabbing random people into a group who are not in your voice chat group, etc...you have to type, and it's really not that bad. I play cleric, enchanter and bard and call out stuff constantly via typing. It's not that hard. Voice is convenient, but absolutely not necessary.
On the topic - I have nights where I cannot buy a group, nights where I get one almost instantly, and nights where I have to do some work to get groups. The nights I cannot buya group, it's really me being too lazy to check other zones and being too stubborn to travel a bit. Most nights, if I put 15-20 minutes into getting a group, I'll get one, or I'll get on the list at a popular camp. I manage enough of those lists as a cleric, I know how they work.
I am in a guild, I add people to friends, and my personal community grows. I make my own grouping luck. Anyone can.
This discussion has convinced me of two things:
1) Make it clear when I am lfg that I am a text chat person and decline any invitations requiring voice chat.
2) Log out and go do something else if I don't find a group within 30 minutes of log in. If I only have 2-3 hours for a play session, I don't want to join a group only to leave shortly thereafter.
But 2) leaves me with a question for the rest of you. In EQ, I would group for very long play sessions. What, in your opinion, is the minimum reasonable time to commit to a group?
Hauskat said:But 2) leaves me with a question for the rest of you. In EQ, I would group for very long play sessions. What, in your opinion, is the minimum reasonable time to commit to a group?
In general, I find that 2-3 hours is about the maximum you can expect a group to hold together without someone having to leave. I'd say that to be respectful to others, you probably don't want to join a group unless you really have about an hour or more to devote to whatever it is you're doing, unless it's just something quick like helping someone take down a named mob you can get to in five minutes or so.
This is just my experience and opinion though. YMMV.