Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Racial traits/stats

    • 38 posts
    August 13, 2018 9:44 AM PDT
    Is there any time table for this to come up? Kinda looking forward to finally choosing the race of my Shaman and summoner.
    • 627 posts
    August 13, 2018 10:19 AM PDT
    I really want to know too! Maybe it can be revealed soonish VR? :)
    • 159 posts
    August 13, 2018 10:53 AM PDT

    I would guess that since the class reveals are done now (pending Bard then Necro), we should be getting race previews in upcoming newsletters.


    This post was edited by Xilshale at August 13, 2018 10:53 AM PDT
    • 209 posts
    August 13, 2018 12:47 PM PDT

    I hope too that we'll get some info on this before too long. It makes a ton of difference to me in regard to what race I will pick for a given class.

    • 2419 posts
    August 13, 2018 3:45 PM PDT

    I definitely want there to be palpable differences in stats between the races so that picking a class offered by multiple races will mean some differences in gameplay between the races.  The difference in stats between the Ogre Warrior and Elf Warrior would be noticed in how the class plays.  The Ogre should have a much higher base strength but a lower dexterity and agility.  Thus the Ogre might, on average, hit much harder than the Elf it would hit slightly less often.  The Ogre, having slower reflexes, could receive more hits on average than the slightly higher dexterity Elf but the Ogre, but because of the higher base hitpoint pool, it can afford to take those hits whereas the Elf would take fewer hits, on average, but those same hits would be taking a larger portion of its hitpoints.

    I want there to be tradeoffs between races, reasons to pick one race/class over another.  If there is no reason other than aesthetics to play one race over another, then you just pick Human and play in 1st person so you don't have to look at yourself.


    This post was edited by Vandraad at August 14, 2018 7:43 AM PDT
    • 3852 posts
    August 13, 2018 8:13 PM PDT

    I agree with Vandraad.

    Unless you want more information to plan for playing in alpha (assuming you have this option) there is really no hurry since anything they say now can and in many cases *will* change during testing. That is the whole point of testing (in addition to catching bugs of course).

    • 129 posts
    August 13, 2018 8:35 PM PDT

    I'm interested in racial traits, but just for lore reasons, rather than gameplay reasons. I already know what race/class I'm going to play anyways.

     

    By the way, do you guys think racial traits should scale with levels and bring a significant bonus at high (max) level ?

    Or, the opposite, bring a significant early game bonus, which will become irrevelant late game (stats will end up capped by gear, most likely) ?

    • 257 posts
    August 13, 2018 9:41 PM PDT

    Don't ever choose your race because of a racial stat on a new launch. MMO's almost always change their racial stats. If the game has been out for 1-2 years, then sure, min-max it. Straight out of the gate though, expect many nerfs/buffs for months to follow.


    This post was edited by Retsof at August 13, 2018 9:43 PM PDT
    • 119 posts
    August 13, 2018 10:20 PM PDT

    I'm hoping for some pretty hefty differences between the races, stats and otherwise. Of course, I don't want to be utterly crippled by my lack of a certain stat for a class, but having a big variance can make some neat situations where less-ideal races for a class are less common to encounter, which can sort of play into the depth of the world a bit.

    • 2886 posts
    August 14, 2018 3:56 AM PDT

    Xilshale said:

    I would guess that since the class reveals are done now (pending Bard then Necro), we should be getting race previews in upcoming newsletters.

    I think so too. Usually when the question is "is there a timetable for " the answer is no. Things are rarely announced before they're ready, which is actually a good thing. We are all looking forward to racial info. But I suspect that it will be similar to the class reveals in that it will tell you roughly what the abilities do, but won't include exact numbers/stats as those will likely change significantly throughout testing. Just my guess, but I think it would make sense for this sort of thing to crop up in the newsletters before too long. Patience is key.

    • 1479 posts
    August 14, 2018 7:37 AM PDT

    I like how dark myrs seem like having a natural racial versus environment : water.

    I would like to see such benefits to other races, making them not focused on being best at combat/class but against specific areas.

    • 1120 posts
    August 14, 2018 10:40 AM PDT

    Retsof said:

    Don't ever choose your race because of a racial stat on a new launch. MMO's almost always change their racial stats. If the game has been out for 1-2 years, then sure, min-max it. Straight out of the gate though, expect many nerfs/buffs for months to follow.

    This.  Plus the amount of changes that will happen just from now until release will be insane.  Pick the race you love and go with it!

    • 752 posts
    August 14, 2018 11:12 AM PDT

    This is my point of view, but i feel that these STAT differences should and would be more noticable at early levels and balance out in the end. If this is based purely on STAT differences, without modifiers, you can see how having higher STR would affect dmg early on.

    Now if they add something more beneficial like certain resist/acclimation specialties then this would still be more noticeable at first until people come accross more equipment or items that provide these effects. 

    My thoughts on racial differences for lets continue the Ogre arguement, add the STAT modifiers, and add acclimation to something like windshear? Being heavy they could resist it more? 

    Lets follow this line of thinking. We already know Dark Myr will have Pressure. Dwarfs will probably have Cold/Freezing. Skar, Heat? Archai, seems we may be able to choose based on elemental stone implanted? 

    If they have these innate resist/acclimation benefits with some slight and reasonable STAT changes i think this is a decent way to handle the racial system differences. ADD: I would like to also state if they add perhaps a modifier to certain skills like say defense or maybe halflings get higher archery skill this would also be ok. And in the endgame would most likely equal out. 


    This post was edited by kreed99 at August 14, 2018 12:43 PM PDT
    • 332 posts
    August 19, 2018 2:24 PM PDT

    I think different point allocations , with a min / max is the way to go.  Also minor things in the form of racial abilitys, as long there not game breaking ... ie frontal stun immunity.

    • 287 posts
    August 19, 2018 7:52 PM PDT
    Ogres not being stunned from the front was while we saw so many of them they were the min/max warrior race. The other races we're so far behind.
    • 287 posts
    August 19, 2018 7:52 PM PDT
    Why not while*
    • 85 posts
    August 19, 2018 9:00 PM PDT
    I honestly hope that they have most of the other dials tweaked before they start firming up the racial differences.

    I mean, I am sure that the rough idea is pretty much set. But before you finalize the details, you need to know how much impact those stats and abilities will have.

    +5 STA means a lot more if +1 STA gear is rare, and it mean nothing if +50 STA gear is common. (Also, is it +5 over cap? Or is the cap still the same?)

    Racial waterbreathing is awesome if there is a ton of underwater content. Unless there is some cheap abundant waterbreathing ring that drops on every turtle. Or even if the duration of a waterbreathing spell is fairly long.

    I am curious about racial penalties also. Restrictions to armor. XP penalties. Etc.

    I love having unique races. However it will inevitably make some race/class combinations objectively better than others to one degree or another. My preference is that those advantages be kept as small as possible, while keeping the races interesting.

    I don't mind if the Ogre warrior is objectively better than the Human warrior, as long as it isn't so much better that nobody wants to play the human warrior.

    I think my number is something like 5%. Anything that makes a race/class combo much more than 5% better than the same class with any other race is just too much. I wouldn't give up 10% of my power to be my favorite race. At that point it might as well be a restricted class for that race.

    I would love to see it be a trade off though. So maybe you are 5% worse at X as a human, but 5% better at Y. My gut tells me that that would just make balance an order of magnitude more difficult.
    • 1714 posts
    August 19, 2018 9:15 PM PDT

    Racial traits should not be substantial, they should not change how a class plays. This leads to min maxing and cookie cutter race selection(no frontal stun on Ogre). 

    • 3852 posts
    August 20, 2018 7:54 AM PDT

    Keno Monster's point is quite valid but I do want to mention a countervailing argument.

    A racial bonus/detriment that actually makes a difference encourages us to try different races with much more enthusiasm than if race meant nothing other than appearance or possibly choice of starting area.

    Encouraging us to play alts (yes some people will not under any circumstances and some people *will* under any circumstances but there are many between these extremes) is good for the game. It keeps lower level areas active and delays or prevents the clog at level-cap with contant moaning that there is nothing to do.


    This post was edited by dorotea at August 20, 2018 7:55 AM PDT
    • 2419 posts
    August 20, 2018 8:30 AM PDT

    bryanleo9 said: Ogres not being stunned from the front was while we saw so many of them they were the min/max warrior race. The other races we're so far behind.

    Ogre tanks weren't that overpowered as plenty of guilds used non-Ogre tanks. My guild had a Gnome Warrior of all things as our MT up through Gates of Discord before he stopped playing.  Not once did the lack of stun immunity prove a detriment to our progression.


    This post was edited by Vandraad at August 20, 2018 8:30 AM PDT
    • 1479 posts
    August 20, 2018 10:56 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    bryanleo9 said: Ogres not being stunned from the front was while we saw so many of them they were the min/max warrior race. The other races we're so far behind.

    Ogre tanks weren't that overpowered as plenty of guilds used non-Ogre tanks. My guild had a Gnome Warrior of all things as our MT up through Gates of Discord before he stopped playing.  Not once did the lack of stun immunity prove a detriment to our progression.

     

    That's a bad example, because after Luclin or Pop, there were ways to emulate or limit the absence of frontal stun immunity, characters were also maxxed in strength and con with raid buffs all the time, so the choice of beeing of the optimal race was thinner and thinner.

     

    During classic / Kunark, I bet most tanks were high base stat races, with ogres beeing the prefered, and wood elves warrior were laught upon because their racial and base stats brought nothing usefull, or at least as usefull, as others.

    • 2419 posts
    August 20, 2018 11:06 AM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Vandraad said:

    bryanleo9 said: Ogres not being stunned from the front was while we saw so many of them they were the min/max warrior race. The other races we're so far behind.

    Ogre tanks weren't that overpowered as plenty of guilds used non-Ogre tanks. My guild had a Gnome Warrior of all things as our MT up through Gates of Discord before he stopped playing.  Not once did the lack of stun immunity prove a detriment to our progression.

     

    That's a bad example, because after Luclin or Pop, there were ways to emulate or limit the absence of frontal stun immunity, characters were also maxxed in strength and con with raid buffs all the time, so the choice of beeing of the optimal race was thinner and thinner.

     

    During classic / Kunark, I bet most tanks were high base stat races, with ogres beeing the prefered, and wood elves warrior were laught upon because their racial and base stats brought nothing usefull, or at least as usefull, as others.

    How is that a bad example.  Our Gnome Warrior was the main tank for every expansion up through Gates of Discord which includes Classic, Kunark, Velious, Luclin.  All the guids I interacted with all had main warriors who were not Ogres.   Human was the most common actually with Dark Elf a close second.

    It would be like saying anything other than a High Elf Enchanter was sub-par because the High Elf could get the highest Charisma, or that any Wizard other than an Erudite was worse because the Erudite had the highest base INT.  Frontal Immunity, while nice, was not a gamebreaking ability by any stretch of the means.  Some of the highest guilds in all of EQ had non-Ogre tanks.


    This post was edited by Vandraad at August 20, 2018 11:08 AM PDT
    • 1479 posts
    August 20, 2018 11:51 AM PDT

    Sorry bud, I thought you meant only during theses xpacs and not since the game's launch.

    To my experience, small races tanks were really not appreciated, and very rare. But were they because no one wanted to start with an innate malus or because it made their levelling harder due to their weak stats ?

    Your example is right then, and might add to the fact people overlooked frontal stun immunity like it was a godsend.

    • 752 posts
    August 20, 2018 12:02 PM PDT

    I knew quite a few non ogre warriors. What i noticed was that they were the exception and not the rule. Generally speaking if you just wanted a tank and spank warrior for a casual guild you had a orge or troll warrior as MA. What allowed for small warrior races to succeed was skill level of not only themselves but thier guild. So, yes, a gnome warrior could tank and be successful, was that the preferred route to take? No.

    I created a troll SK just for the simple fact that i didn't want frontal stun. That is why it was considered gamebreaking or unfair or whathave you. Sortof the lazy man excuse to choose a race. 

    • 1860 posts
    August 20, 2018 2:30 PM PDT

    I guess we can never be content with the info we receive hah. 

    We finally get all of the classes revealed and the next thing is about: what is the time table for the racial traits/stats?

    It's understandable though...I picked my class, now we need race info!


    This post was edited by philo at August 20, 2018 2:31 PM PDT