Essentially in EQ your body with all your gear lies until retrieved right where you died. You took a significant loss of experience and you needed to retrieve your gear before you could continue.
When a single group member died, the group's cleric could offer a resurrection which would restore varying amounts of experience and teleport you back to your corpse.
If your whole group died or if you were the cleric, things got more interesting. You could find your entire group naked at the entrance to a zone relying on the help of other players. Rogues were skilled at dragging corpses from deep in dungeons to the relatively safe zone entrance. Necros had a skill for summoning corpses which was sometimes necessary when the rogue wasn't able to do the job. Necros and paladins had modest resurrection spells, so if you were the dead cleric, hopefully you have someone else in your group who could get you back in action quickly.
For a lot of old school EQ players, some of our best and worst game memories revolved around crazy tough corpse retrieval sessions, which sometimes could take an hour or more.
Death was punishing in vintage EQ.
Later expansions added a graveyard feature, so if you weren't able to retrieve your corpse you could wait 7 days for your corpse to appear in the graveyard so at least you wouldn't lose all the gear you'd been collecting for the past year on your favourite character. I suspect they probably added more corpse conveniences over the many expansions to make the game more appealing to the casual crowd.
I'm in favor of a severe death penalty but I'd also like to see a cap to that penalty. For example, let's say your entire group wipes and you don't have a lot of help to get back to your corpses. Or perhaps someone needs to leave or the group just disbands out of frustration. What then? I'd like to see something where perhaps your corpse would teleport to a safe location after, say, 24 hours or something. The anxiety from EQ1 of getting your corpse when your group doesn't stay together (or there's no one around to help) is quite tangible!
Mooserider said:How exactly does the death system work in eq and if it’s known how exactly will it work in pantheon?
Pantheon's death system will work very much like EQ1s but with some difference. From what VR has said over the years is that upon death you do leave a corpse with all your items on it reappearing at your bind point. Upon returning to your corpse you will automaticaly regain some of the XP you lost. Or, if a cleric resurrects you, you will re-appear at your corpse and also get some portion of your lost XP back. After a rez you will have resurrection effects, typically meaning low-ish HP and mana and a temporary decrease in stats.
Avaen said:I'm in favor of a severe death penalty but I'd also like to see a cap to that penalty. For example, let's say your entire group wipes and you don't have a lot of help to get back to your corpses. Or perhaps someone needs to leave or the group just disbands out of frustration. What then? I'd like to see something where perhaps your corpse would teleport to a safe location after, say, 24 hours or something. The anxiety from EQ1 of getting your corpse when your group doesn't stay together (or there's no one around to help) is quite tangible!
For some it's that stress that gives the game its charm. You're playing for higher stakes in vintage EQ. It was considered very bad form to bail on a group that was in the middle of a corpse run. Sometimes it couldn't be avoided but you soon learned who the habitual quitters were and didn't group with them. I think it was the Planes of Power expansion in EQ that added the seven day graveyards. That at least was a guarantee that your gear was never lost.
One thing about the death system in EQ is that it really built community. You soon learned who the friendly necros, rogues and clerics were who could help bail you out of a jam. I made lots of friends through EQ deaths.
Yep good summary, except to add Monks were pretty handy too. Generally they could Feign Death and drag your group to somewhere that another cleric could resurrection yours. Sometimes all you needed was invisibility (unless there were undead or high-level monsters that could see through it).
There were a few ways to get back to corpses or retrieve them, but most relied upon interacting with other players and groups to get help.
Sometimes they would want paying, sometimes not.
Sometimes it would cost you your camp, because others would move in while you were recovering, which is fair enough, but sometimes a waiting group would help resurrect you and get your camp re-established.
It was a penalty to make you fear dying, but also a social opportunity and could also be quite a fun challenge for the monk/thief/invisible character retrieving corpses or for the group saving your asses as you resurrect in the camp and get attacked etc etc.
Lots of opportunity for challenge and fun. Not just a punishment.
That's not to say it wasn't sometimes awful. I once fell in some lava in a dungeon and lived just long enough for the flow to take me into another zone before I died.
My corpse ended up at the bottom of a lava lake at the bottom and most inaccesible part of a dungeon that was 20 levels higher than all my friends. It took me several sessions to get that back. But, wow, was it a massive relief when I did and it now makes a very cool memory.
Celandor said:Avaen said:I'm in favor of a severe death penalty but I'd also like to see a cap to that penalty. For example, let's say your entire group wipes and you don't have a lot of help to get back to your corpses. Or perhaps someone needs to leave or the group just disbands out of frustration. What then? I'd like to see something where perhaps your corpse would teleport to a safe location after, say, 24 hours or something. The anxiety from EQ1 of getting your corpse when your group doesn't stay together (or there's no one around to help) is quite tangible!
For some it's that stress that gives the game its charm. You're playing for higher stakes in vintage EQ. It was considered very bad form to bail on a group that was in the middle of a corpse run. Sometimes it couldn't be avoided but you soon learned who the habitual quitters were and didn't group with them. I think it was the Planes of Power expansion in EQ that added the seven day graveyards. That at least was a guarantee that your gear was never lost.
One thing about the death system in EQ is that it really built community. You soon learned who the friendly necros, rogues and clerics were who could help bail you out of a jam. I made lots of friends through EQ deaths.
Absolutely. Death/corpse runs require some effort and assistance at times. The charm is in the challenge. :)
Mooserider said: ok cool sounds super interesting. How about when you die is it always in front of the dungeon you’re crawling through or is it going to spawn you at lets say the last known capital or safe encampment you visited?
Basically your "bind" point was a location your character was bound (super useless sentence, I know), either because it's where you started, or because a groupmember from a priest / mage class used the low level spell "bind" on you. However, if you were not the one casting the spell, you could only be bound in a city.
When you were a caster (priest / mage) you could bind yourself anywhere, even in front of a dungeon. That allowed you to ease the corpse runs but made impossible to use the spell gate (again a spell of the former mentionned classes) that would teleport you back to your bind point, making some "visiting travels" possible while recalling back at the other side of the world.
kreed99 said:Vandraad said:Upon returning to your corpse you will automaticaly regain some of the XP you lost.
Didn't know about this part. I like this.
Traditionally, not much though. You get much more back from being resurrected by a cleric. At higher levels, a cleric resurrect was 98% of your XP back. In my opinion, it should never have been that much - especially when clerics had their epic weapon, which on a click could resurrect, it made death pretty trivial.
I feel like death should hurt *more* when you are higher level not less.
Syrif said:Celandor said:Avaen said:I'm in favor of a severe death penalty but I'd also like to see a cap to that penalty. For example, let's say your entire group wipes and you don't have a lot of help to get back to your corpses. Or perhaps someone needs to leave or the group just disbands out of frustration. What then? I'd like to see something where perhaps your corpse would teleport to a safe location after, say, 24 hours or something. The anxiety from EQ1 of getting your corpse when your group doesn't stay together (or there's no one around to help) is quite tangible!
For some it's that stress that gives the game its charm. You're playing for higher stakes in vintage EQ. It was considered very bad form to bail on a group that was in the middle of a corpse run. Sometimes it couldn't be avoided but you soon learned who the habitual quitters were and didn't group with them. I think it was the Planes of Power expansion in EQ that added the seven day graveyards. That at least was a guarantee that your gear was never lost.
One thing about the death system in EQ is that it really built community. You soon learned who the friendly necros, rogues and clerics were who could help bail you out of a jam. I made lots of friends through EQ deaths.
Absolutely. Death/corpse runs require some effort and assistance at times. The charm is in the challenge. :)
A lot of people dislike corpse runs a LOT. Myself I can't say I "liked" them but learned to look at them as a spontaneous quest. At any given time the game could strip you of all your gear and then say "you want it back you have to complete this quest naked"
And as pointed out in others post there were many tools at your disposal to do so. Friends/guild mates being one of the best tools.
The formulas pretty simple, always help others with their corpse runs in any way you can, and when its your turn you won't have any problems.
Celandor said:Essentially in EQ your body with all your gear lies until retrieved right where you died. You took a significant loss of experience and you needed to retrieve your gear before you could continue.
Slightly incorrect. You could just forget your corpse and everything on and it just go about your new life. There wasn't any mechanic that "made" you get your corpse.
Kittik said:Celandor said:Essentially in EQ your body with all your gear lies until retrieved right where you died. You took a significant loss of experience and you needed to retrieve your gear before you could continue.
Slightly incorrect. You could just forget your corpse and everything on and it just go about your new life. There wasn't any mechanic that "made" you get your corpse.
You aren't wrong. lol
disposalist said:I feel like death should hurt *more* when you are higher level not less.
Whole heartedly agree. You should know the game by now, you should know mechanics and you should know your own limitations by the higher levels.
Some people might say, "Well what about raiding!?" Well, what about it. Death, even in raiding should still hurt. To be the best, to progress the most, you should have to pay the highest price. As they say, heavy is the crown that wears the head. Or something like that.
kreed99 said:Vandraad said:Upon returning to your corpse you will automaticaly regain some of the XP you lost.
Didn't know about this part. I like this.
I dislike it.
On one hand they say "corpse runs will be required"
And on the other hand they say "Upon returning to your corpse you will automaticaly regain some of the XP you lost. "
It makes no sense to take experience just to give it back if corpse runs are truly "required"
I feel there is more to this story were not yet being told.. something BIG there holding back. My concern is the death penalty is going to be too trivial. Nobody's going to care.
Zorkon said:kreed99 said:Vandraad said:Upon returning to your corpse you will automaticaly regain some of the XP you lost.
Didn't know about this part. I like this.
I dislike it.
On one hand they say "corpse runs will be required"
And on the other hand they say "Upon returning to your corpse you will automaticaly regain some of the XP you lost. "
It makes no sense to take experience just to give it back if corpse runs are truly "required"
I feel there is more to this story were not yet being told.. something BIG there holding back. My concern is the death penalty is going to be too trivial. Nobody's going to care.
Agreed. Why not just make the exp loss less to begin with? It seems unnecessary, or perhap's it's a pyschological rule in place to cater to...certain types of gamers. Maybe it's an incentive for people to not leave millions of corpses laying around all the time.
MauvaisOeil said:Mooserider said: ok cool sounds super interesting. How about when you die is it always in front of the dungeon you’re crawling through or is it going to spawn you at lets say the last known capital or safe encampment you visited?
Basically your "bind" point was a location your character was bound (super useless sentence, I know), either because it's where you started, or because a groupmember from a priest / mage class used the low level spell "bind" on you. However, if you were not the one casting the spell, you could only be bound in a city.
When you were a caster (priest / mage) you could bind yourself anywhere, even in front of a dungeon. That allowed you to ease the corpse runs but made impossible to use the spell gate (again a spell of the former mentionned classes) that would teleport you back to your bind point, making some "visiting travels" possible while recalling back at the other side of the world.
In vintage EQ you could only bind in cities, so if the dungeon you died in was 2 zones away, you had to run naked through those zones to get to the dungeon, and then run naked in the dungeon to where you died- hoping the respawns did not happen. Often the respawns did happen so you would have to fight the earlier killed monsters, naked- and fast- as fast as possible for then the run to your corpse would be somewhat clear, barring any roamers.
So you are just level 20, you go to a dungeon with level 18-22 monsters, two zones away. The first zone has 13-17 level monsters (con LB and DB) and one invisible level 30 roamer somewhere... the second zone where the dungeon is, is level 17-19 all con DB. In both zones the monsters are a challenge still, you would die without a group, maybe solo one if you got a good pull.
You die in the dungeon, you "wake up" at the city where you are "bound" but all your stuff that made you stronger and tougher is in the dungeon. and because you just turned 20 and did not get a buffer of exp, you are now level 19. and you have to run naked through the first zone, where a random smack by a roaming creature may take you down 30% of health if you are not invis and do not try to avoid them, but the second zone you might die again if you got one shotted by an average roamer for that zone. Once you get to the dungeon you mostly will die if you tried to do it alone, so... you shout, ask, try with your naked group to get there as fast as possible.
And this is where the stories and the memories come from. I love going into a dungeon or any zone for that matter and seeing people in it.
disposalist said:I feel like death should hurt *more* when you are higher level not less.
In many ways, even without significant XP loss, death does already hurt more at higher levels.
The corpse run. Typically you are not bound anywhere near where you died and returning to the zone could take time.
Retrieving your corpse. Once you get to the zone, getting back to your corpses could take quite a bit of time and possible lead to further deaths. Did your group remember to retrieve replacement gear to fight your way back to your corpses?
Loss if your camp spot. We will be in a non-instanced world. A wipe by your group deep in a dungeon could mean another group moves in and takes over. Now you have to spend time finding another place to earn XP.
I remember for some odd reason i thought you could get to oasis through befallen so i lead my group into the maze of fake walls and floors only to have everyone die down in the pits of that hell and had to get my mage friend to fight his way down there to get our corpses, those my friend were epic times, and the friendships made from a simple helping hand in that game were epic, wow used to be that way but now wow is like diablo 4 and nothing really matters in that game, if everlasting friendships are what you desire you my friend are in for a treat with brad and his team on this one!
disposalist said:That's not to say it wasn't sometimes awful. I once fell in some lava in a dungeon and lived just long enough for the flow to take me into another zone before I died.
My corpse ended up at the bottom of a lava lake at the bottom and most inaccesible part of a dungeon that was 20 levels higher than all my friends. It took me several sessions to get that back. But, wow, was it a massive relief when I did and it now makes a very cool memory.
Sol C
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zone.html?zstrat=186
Well here are my thoughts on getting exp if you get back to your corpse without rez. First off, didnt know this was a thing. I am used to the you loot and lose the rez percent bonus. Second, i feel that there is some sort of inherent desire to regain some small amount of exp, if there is no rez available, and you don't want to leave a corpse hanging around like we have all seen a bajillion times. I would take like a 10% or 20% self rez once i get to corpse if it helps to clear out corpse clutter. Now if this is a false thing and there is no self rez percentage when you get to corpse and loot it i am perfectly fine with this. I think the main argument for a system like this is it creates incentive for you to loot the corpse and clear clutter. There are still many many unknowns about how rezing will work. For instance we don't know if we can get a lower rez and then get a higher level rez if we don't loot all on corpse. We don't know if we can loot and leave a single item so that if a rez comes later we can take it. We don't know if releasing corpse completely rules out a specific rez percent. There are still some kinks to work out with the rez system and i am confident VR has asked all these questions before. I am really down for whatever they decide.