Forums » The Dire Lord

What is the upside for a tank taking spike damage?

    • 17 posts
    November 29, 2018 11:44 PM PST

    Kurgon999 said: I am hesitant here. It looks fun as hell to play, and I can't make a real call on it until I try it. But something tells me that in a boss fight/raid where everyone is at the limit, spike damage to the tank is going to be rough. Its at the end of the fight, when resources are low, the cleric is waiting for just enough mana for one more heal, and boom - DL spikes below zero. No amount of self heal is gonna bump you back up.

     

    Your last sentece. This is where I see the DL really shining. Resource conservation for the long fights. The only real job Visionary Realms needs to ensure is that a DL isn't immediately one shotted by a boss with no cooldowns up, being as the only real mitigation cooldown here is on a lengthy cooldown. With this long cooldown, I believe that is their intent. If a boss "rages" aka start swinging faster and landing more hits, we will see this cooldown be of great use. When fights are pushing towards the end and resources are low and every mana available crucial, the Dire Lord should really dominate because of self heals, healers should have more mana available at that point of the encounter.

     

    Also using WoW's current tank status (the DK), DKs are self healing tanks who do not use shields. They perform well in comparison with the Warrior, Paladin, Druid, Monk. It's a different playstyle but one that is different and fun.

    As a DK tank myself and also a Druid healer, I can definitely say that an experienced DK tank makes my job easier. They are able to self sustain for most things and being as they can, in a pinch, get themselves topped or nearly topped off, allows me to focus elsewhere if need be.

    • 691 posts
    November 30, 2018 5:15 AM PST

    Berlock said:

    Kurgon999 said: I am hesitant here. It looks fun as hell to play, and I can't make a real call on it until I try it. But something tells me that in a boss fight/raid where everyone is at the limit, spike damage to the tank is going to be rough. Its at the end of the fight, when resources are low, the cleric is waiting for just enough mana for one more heal, and boom - DL spikes below zero. No amount of self heal is gonna bump you back up.

     

    Your last sentece. This is where I see the DL really shining. Resource conservation for the long fights. The only real job Visionary Realms needs to ensure is that a DL isn't immediately one shotted by a boss with no cooldowns up, being as the only real mitigation cooldown here is on a lengthy cooldown. With this long cooldown, I believe that is their intent. If a boss "rages" aka start swinging faster and landing more hits, we will see this cooldown be of great use. When fights are pushing towards the end and resources are low and every mana available crucial, the Dire Lord should really dominate because of self heals, healers should have more mana available at that point of the encounter.

     

    Also using WoW's current tank status (the DK), DKs are self healing tanks who do not use shields. They perform well in comparison with the Warrior, Paladin, Druid, Monk. It's a different playstyle but one that is different and fun.

    As a DK tank myself and also a Druid healer, I can definitely say that an experienced DK tank makes my job easier. They are able to self sustain for most things and being as they can, in a pinch, get themselves topped or nearly topped off, allows me to focus elsewhere if need be.

    I hear where you're coming from but I just want to say that the PRotF DL is very different than the WoW DK in its current concept.  The DK is a plate wearing VERY high HP tank with mechanics designed around self healing and damage absorbtion shields based on their own Max HP (which is higher than other tanks by design for this reason), the DL will be a chain wearing tank with self healing (with the acception of abysal strike and potentially some future abilities) based on a % of the damage that they deal.  I tanked as DL for a top guild back when I played in WotLK and when played correctly you could almost always have Death Strike available to basically spam it for the huge self healing and absorbtion shields... which was needed to survive raid encounter NPCs, but made me absoluely OP in raid gear being able to solo heroic dungeon bosses and any non-raid content designed to be challenging to a group of equal level.  Those are very very very different mechanics, and I know the devs do not want a single class to faceroll through content like that.  edit: At least not level equivalent content.

    If we look at the Druid's abilities, I think they will be the most suitable healer for the DL since they have skills like Herode's Chrysalis that prevents 1 shots and Verdanfire Seed that is a damage absorbtion that heals for the amount of damage absorbed... as well as buffs to increase healing received (assuming this works with the DL's self healing).  This is of course all speculatoin. 


    This post was edited by Darch at November 30, 2018 5:28 AM PST
    • 691 posts
    November 30, 2018 6:26 AM PST

    Spike damage example at lvl 25...


    https://youtu.be/0MPG2pbC3nw?t=2978

    • 2475 posts
    November 30, 2018 1:01 PM PST

    Darch said:

    the DL will be a chain wearing tank with self healing (with the acception of abysal strike and potentially some future abilities) based on a % of the damage that they deal.  

    With the exception of one of their stances, all their self healing is currently based on a % of their max hp and not the damage they do.

    • 691 posts
    December 1, 2018 3:01 AM PST
    Like Dark Revenge and Essence Thief? No wait, those are % of the damage dealt. Which skill(s) other than abysal strike give health by a % of max health? (You can’t count increased natursl health regen as combat healing for this reason https://youtu.be/0MPG2pbC3nw?t=2978 )
    • 1650 posts
    December 1, 2018 4:38 AM PST

    Darch said: Like Dark Revenge and Essence Thief? No wait, those are % of the damage dealt. Which skill(s) other than abysal strike give health by a % of max health? (You can’t count increased natursl health regen as combat healing for this reason https://youtu.be/0MPG2pbC3nw?t=2978 )

     

    Thresh ?

    • 8 posts
    January 2, 2019 7:00 PM PST
    Maybe Dire Lords should have more raw hit points than Warriors and Paladins. Thats how berserkers or barbarians were balanced in DnD.
    • 491 posts
    January 3, 2019 1:07 PM PST

    Hey sorry for being late to respond to this but:

    Darch said: Like Dark Revenge and Essence Thief? No wait, those are % of the damage dealt.

    Essence Thief has nothing to do with Healing.

    Essence Thief: You shadowstep (teleport) to an enemy's location up to 15 meters away, draining that enemy's Mana by 5% and instantly restoring your Essence to full (Joppa says by 50%). No Cost, Insta Cast, 15m Range.

    I'm assuming you were referring to Essence Leech, which is one of your 'stances'.

    Essense Leech: Your blood swells with the essence of your enemies, increasing your critical strike chance. Your critical hits draw out the essence of your enemy, healing you for X% of the damage dealt. Tooltip does not give crit strike chance value but Joppa says 25%. Crits heal you for 50% of damage dealt.

    It is unknown if crits will do a standard double damage (+100%) or if it's based off a critical damage rating which means at low level it might be less than +100% but at high level might be much higher than +100%.

    As for Dark Revenge, I actually am curious how this is going to work.

    Dark Revenge: Passive Ability. After being critically hit, your next attack will restore your health by X% of the damage you deal.

    Since it's Passive... when you get crit is it going to proc the heal off the next auto attack you do? Or does it only proc off activated abilities. If it can just proc the heal off your auto-attacks, then almost all of the healing from this will come from auto-attack damage, unless you get lucky and you are just firing off an ability at the moment you get crit, or unless you have a very slow weapon and can easily weave in a higher damage activated ability when you see yourself get crit.

    Personally I hope that it doesn't proc off auto-attacks thus giving you some control over the heal, so if you see yourself get 'crit' it would be nice if you were able to choose which damage ability you use to proc the healing from Dark Revenge rather than it being based on if you are lucky and can quickly fire off an activated before your next auto attack swings.

    Darch said: Which skill(s) other than abysal strike give health by a % of max health?

    Thresh: A ruthless attack that carves your enemy open to expose their essence, causing your enemy to bleed. (Grants Essence)
         From the Cohh Dire Lord stream: Thresh: Insta cast, 8s cooldown, 3m Range. Now also has a Heal over Time componant: 12% of your Max Health over 4 seconds.

    Since this heals for 4 seconds but has an 8 second cooldown (currently in Pre-Alpha) this means you will have a 12% of your MaxHP HoT for 4 seconds and then 4 seconds before you can re-apply this HoT.

    Duvalis said: Maybe Dire Lords should have more raw hit points than Warriors and Paladins. Thats how berserkers or barbarians were balanced in DnD.

    I believe this will probably be part of itemization rather than a class based HP bonus, although I may be wrong. It's possible that Dire Lord usable medium armours will have a little more +sta than the plate armours. Or perhaps this is totally up to the Dire Lord to prioritize the +sta gear thus maximizing his % heals.

     

    • 7 posts
    January 3, 2019 2:26 PM PST

    So I see people have issues with spike damage, but it's usually from the point of view from a different tank, and negatively towards the Dire Lord.

    What's the difference if a warrior/paladin has consistent damage when taking blows to the face, then takes a magical hit and his health chunks, vs a DL taking magical hits in the face and getting spiked with a physical blow? Seems to me people are focusing on the latter and ignoring the former.

    Also in terms of the description of DL tanking, I see someone calling a DL an offtank because he'd only be there to take magical blows.

    My WoW days, it was two tanks. Not a MT and an OT. It was two tanks. One would tank until too many stacks or take an unavoidable blow of damage, and the other tank would grab it and that was part of the rotation, especially on live servers.

    If a boss is going to cycle through magical and physical attacks routinely, I'm not about to call the person who only takes physical hits well and spikes all over the place when getting hit by a spell a Main Tank. Or a shield wearer getting chewed up by poison/disease DoTs so fast that it's impossible to heal a Main Tank.

    As a potential DL player, I can only hope that there's a competitve bond between me and my co-pilot during boss fights for the top two seats of threat, and knowing when to drop everything I have to peel that thing off him for the iminent spell cast the boss has been recharging. And I hope that bond creates a cooperative experience between us, not a "You're just an offtank" attitude that I see here.


    This post was edited by Fides at January 3, 2019 2:35 PM PST