Forums » The Dire Lord

New info from Cohh stream

    • 230 posts
    August 6, 2018 3:32 AM PDT

    Just some things we learned from Cohh stream that we didn't have in the Dire Lord reveal: https://youtu.be/2FXXE4IWu6k remember all of this is subject to change.

    Only listing NEW or Changed info that isn't in the Dire Lord reveal page: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/classes/dire_lord/

    1) Provoking Phantoms - Insta cast, 6s cooldown, 12m Range. Joppa mentions that this will be limited to 1 target at a time. But it has no duration so unless you cast it on a new target it will not fade from your target.

    2) Thresh - Insta cast, 8s cooldown, 3m Range. Now also has a Heal over Time componant: 12% of your Max Health over 4 seconds (4 ticks according to Joppa)

    3) Abyssal Strike - Cost: 40 Essence, Insta Cast, 15s cooldown, 3m Range. Now also has a instant Heal componant for 25% of your Max Health.

    4) Sanguine Blade - Cost: 25 Essence, Insta Cast, 20s cooldown, 3m Range.

    5) Essence Thief - Totally reworked from Reveal info: You shadowstep (teleport) to an enemy's location up to 15 meters away, draining that enemy's Mana by 5% and instantly restoring your Essence to full (Joppa says by 50%). No Cost, Insta Cast, 15m Range.

    6) Splatter - Cost: 20 Essence, Insta Cast, 15s cooldown, 3m range. The AE is 6m radius. (does not say if the debuff spread is limited to the Dire Lord's personal effects or includes all sources: ie your groupmate's debuffs)

    7) Edge of Midnight - Cost: 40 Mana (DL uses mana too I guess, typo maybe), Insta Cast, 20s cooldown, 3m Range. This does more damage based on targets Max Mana.

    8) Dampen Harm (NEW) - Self only, Cost: 50 Essence, Insta Cast, 120s cooldown (2 min). Reduces all damage you take by 30% - 50% for 10s, with larger attacks being reduced by more. Has a 3m range listed but is Self buff so this may just be a default range that won't mean anything and be removed from the tooltip eventually.

    9) Harmshield - Cost: 5 Essence + 2 Essence / 2s. Insta Cast, 1s cooldown, 26m range. Tooltip description slightly different, now reads: "Infuses your blood with caustic properties, inflicting damage to all enemies that strike you in physical combat for 20 seconds. (Uses 2 Essence every 2 seconds)." Maths: 5 + 10 over 20s = 15 total cost. Not clear if you can toggle this off early to save some essence if not needed for full duration. Also of note it says 26m range but the description says 'physical combat' which may confuse people into thinking this is only Melee hits, but it really means physical damage source which includes arrows or thrown attacks. So this will likely not reflect damage back at spells cast at you.

    10) Leaden Blood - Cost: 30 Essence, Insta Cast, 20s cooldown, 20m Range. Reworked to be a 40% Movement Speed slow (ie Snare effect) for 5 seconds and then Roots them in place for an additional 5 seconds.

    11) Blood States (aka Stances as Joppa calls them).

    • Nightmare Blood: Self, Insta cast, 1s cooldown, 26m range. Converts 2% of dmg into bonus Hate. The range suggests only damage you do within 26m from yourself? So a DoT on a target that moves far away from you will stop generating extra hate?
    • Torrential Veins: Self, Insta cast, 1s cooldown, 26m range. Again range is interesting here since this only effects self regen and essense regen.
    • Essense Leech: Self, Insta cast, 1s cooldown, 26m range. Tooltip does not give crit strike chance value but Joppa says 25%. Crits heal you for 50% of damage dealt.

    12) Essense does NOT currently decay when you are not in combat.

    13) It Appears that your Essense bar maxes at 100 Essense based on how much it goes down when he uses abilities. The ability costs and cooldowns will likely need to be rebalanced as right now it seems like you can't really run out of essense because you can fill up your essense bar again before your abilities come off cooldown.

    14) Essense Thief seems to be effected by server lag, so when he shadowsteps to a target that's running straight at him he sometimes appears behind the target with the target behind him and has to turn around in order to face it. They may need to fix it so that you always appear facing your target no matter which side of the target you appear on. This also seems to teleport really close to your target even if you are already in melee range, so may also need to be fixed so the teleport only happens if you are too far away to Melee hit your target. This ability also didn't seem to break Mez automatically but assuming you have it set to turn your auto-attack on when your damage abilities fire this may not make much difference. Joppa says this may be toggleable (auto-attack turning on automatically) so you could possibly drain a targets mana without waking it up from Mez, unless they change this.

    Those are the things I noticed... feel free to add anything you may have noticed that's new info about Dire Lords. There was some other things revealed that are not specific to Dire Lords that I didn't mention here but I guess if you guys want you can add what you saw :-)

    • 173 posts
    August 6, 2018 7:28 AM PDT

    Solid post.  I was worried at the lack of self-healing in the reveal, so I'm pleased with a lot of these changes.  Overall, I like the direction quite a bit.  

    I think we really need a better way to visualize essence.  I'm sure the devs are aware of this and can come up with some solution. 

    I'm kind of confused about the design of splatter.  The skill says it has a "chance" to spread effects.  I'm not sure why you would want to add an RNG element to the skill.  /shrug

    The other thing I'd like to see is perhaps a some fine-tuning and added complexity for Abyssal Strike.  Perhaps reduce the overall healing but add a damage absorbtion effect (either based on % of hp or the damage done).  This would make the skill less affected by overhealing and allow the DL preemptively shield himself against a predictable burst of damage.  I'd also like the devs to consider adjusting the way the cooldown works.  Perhaps the skill could have charges or there could be a mechanic that gives you a free Abyssal Strike if you take a certain amount of damage or your hp drops below a threshold.  


    This post was edited by zoltar at August 6, 2018 8:03 AM PDT
    • 184 posts
    August 6, 2018 11:51 AM PDT
    To be honest I think the abusal strike already is a very very potent ability. It already ignores targets armor. Heals 25% of total health, low Cooldown, very high damage. I don't think there any need to build more skills into the basic version. We will see this skill get upgraded to the advanced version and we get different versions from colored mana system also.
    • 173 posts
    August 8, 2018 8:58 PM PDT

    BamBam said: To be honest I think the abusal strike already is a very very potent ability. It already ignores targets armor. Heals 25% of total health, low Cooldown, very high damage. I don't think there any need to build more skills into the basic version. We will see this skill get upgraded to the advanced version and we get different versions from colored mana system also.

     

    How do you know it gets upgraded?   Yes, it's very potent.  As Joppa said, it's the DL's "bread and butter self healing skill".  I'm just talking about tweaking the way it works, not flat out buffing it.  I think the skill would feel better if it had two charges, and refreshed every 25 seconds (instead of 15s for one) but only healed 20% of HP.  This gives you more options.  You can use the first for damage and healing while saving the next for an emergency.  Or you can save them both to have even more healing on hand for an emergency.  And if you did use the one, it rewards using the second right before the recharge time.  The have this mechanic on some characters I've played in HOTS and it feels quite good.  

    • 897 posts
    August 9, 2018 2:10 AM PDT

    zoltar said:

    BamBam said: To be honest I think the abusal strike already is a very very potent ability. It already ignores targets armor. Heals 25% of total health, low Cooldown, very high damage. I don't think there any need to build more skills into the basic version. We will see this skill get upgraded to the advanced version and we get different versions from colored mana system also.

     

    How do you know it gets upgraded?   Yes, it's very potent.  As Joppa said, it's the DL's "bread and butter self healing skill".  I'm just talking about tweaking the way it works, not flat out buffing it.  I think the skill would feel better if it had two charges, and refreshed every 25 seconds (instead of 15s for one) but only healed 20% of HP.  This gives you more options.  You can use the first for damage and healing while saving the next for an emergency.  Or you can save them both to have even more healing on hand for an emergency.  And if you did use the one, it rewards using the second right before the recharge time.  The have this mechanic on some characters I've played in HOTS and it feels quite good.  

     

    That's a wow-ish mechanic blizzard includes in most of their games for flexibility purposes, however it's really removing the decision making impact as the skill would be avaliable for every situation instead of choices to make. I do prefer to have to sacrifice dps for proper usage.

    • 218 posts
    September 10, 2018 8:46 PM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    zoltar said:

    BamBam said: To be honest I think the abusal strike already is a very very potent ability. It already ignores targets armor. Heals 25% of total health, low Cooldown, very high damage. I don't think there any need to build more skills into the basic version. We will see this skill get upgraded to the advanced version and we get different versions from colored mana system also.

     

    How do you know it gets upgraded?   Yes, it's very potent.  As Joppa said, it's the DL's "bread and butter self healing skill".  I'm just talking about tweaking the way it works, not flat out buffing it.  I think the skill would feel better if it had two charges, and refreshed every 25 seconds (instead of 15s for one) but only healed 20% of HP.  This gives you more options.  You can use the first for damage and healing while saving the next for an emergency.  Or you can save them both to have even more healing on hand for an emergency.  And if you did use the one, it rewards using the second right before the recharge time.  The have this mechanic on some characters I've played in HOTS and it feels quite good.  

     

    That's a wow-ish mechanic blizzard includes in most of their games for flexibility purposes, however it's really removing the decision making impact as the skill would be avaliable for every situation instead of choices to make. I do prefer to have to sacrifice dps for proper usage.

    Yes, that is a "wow-ish" mechanic, used by the tank class that relied on self healing and had no shiled (but could at least wear armor)... remind me again how unsuccessful that game is?  I can't stand the game personally, but not because of poor "core" class mechanics.  The DeathKnight had a skill similar to abysal strike (Death Strike) that added an absorbtion shield to compensate for the fact that the DK had no block skill or additional AC from a shield.  They also had anti-magic barriers and silencing (strangulate) skills as well as the ability to copy a caster's spells.  So its not far-fetched to have abysal strike have a barrier.  Death Strike didn't have a cooldown but instead relied on the player managing their resources to ensure they could try to keep that absorbtion shield as high as possible allowing healers to restore their missing HP.  Joppa may think that restoring 25% of their max HP is strong now but when they lose 50% of their HP every 4-6 seconds what good is it if they miss (or dodged/blocked/parried/riposted) just once... or if they are taking damage from archers (which seems to be very popular with the NPCs in the streams).  No melee hits = no self heals.  Where abysal strike may be OP in is 1v1 PvP where other melees will obviously need to be close range to the DL and casters will be at a disadvantage vs the DL requiring a player to have to kill the DL before abysal strike is off of cooldown and avoiding their melee dmg not to mention their dispel attack and mana drain.  edit:  I say this because player dmg and mitigation is nowhere near NPC dmg and mitigation and things like mana drain and silence or blocking or reflecting spells will absolutely crush PC casters.


    This post was edited by Darch at September 10, 2018 8:52 PM PDT
    • 230 posts
    September 12, 2018 6:27 AM PDT

    Darch said: Joppa may think that restoring 25% of their max HP is strong now but when they lose 50% of their HP every 4-6 seconds what good is it if they miss (or dodged/blocked/parried/riposted) just once...

    You are not taking into account the fact that Abyssal strike is not their only self healing effect.

    Thresh also has a 12% max health heal componant.

    Essense Leech stance not only increases your crit by 25% but it also makes crits heal for 50% of all the damage they do.

    Or you could use Torrential Veins that increases your passive regeneration.

    Relentless Vitality then increases your passive regeneration even more the lower your health goes.

    Dark Revenge also causes you to heal back health if you the damage you take is from crits.

    And these are just the abilities we know about. Joppa keeps telling us that we are only seeing a small snippet of the abilities since they don't want to ruin the surprise when we 'find' these abilities out in the world. It's quite possible that the Dire Lord will have several other abilities that have heal effects, or maybe even actual self heals that don't require you to do any damage first.

    Darch said: or if they are taking damage from archers (which seems to be very popular with the NPCs in the streams).  No melee hits = no self heals.

    Essense Thief was initially listed as a location swap but is basically a blink to target now. We don't know which will be it's final version.

    Then Leaden Blood is a snare that turns into a root. Archers aren't getting away.


    This post was edited by GoofyWarriorGuy at September 12, 2018 6:27 AM PDT
    • 218 posts
    September 16, 2018 6:17 PM PDT

    You make some very good points goofywarriorguy.  My concerns are from experience of playing the SHD in EQ1 in which a large part of the content rendered the class's self healing useless because it required an offensive mechanic for it to actually heal you.  But at least the SHD had high defenses to compensate when you got dodge/blocked/parried/riposted/resisted.  Abysal strike may ignore armor, and they may have a +25% crit chance with essense leech that heals them for 50% of the damage dealth... but when the damage dealt = 0, you get healed for 0.  RNG is a poor mechanic to rely on for a class's "core" role of surviving damage.   Relying on critical strikes?  Relying on abyssal strike "could" work if the cooldown didn't trigger if the attack didn't get dodge/blocked/parried/riposted/miss or accidentally used just as a healer healed you.  And on the flip side of that, lowering the cooldown too much will make the class unkillable (if they could just spam heal themselves for 25% of their max hp).  And Essence thief will likely have a significant cooldown because I believe that it also refills their essence meter and the distance is barely out of melee range if it is anything like EQ distances.