Scenario: You accidentally aggro a room full of mobs in an outdoor area, your first reaction is to run but there is a small group of players waiting patiently for a member to catch up to them in the pathway of the only exit - What do you do? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
Room full of mobs in an outdoor area... with only one pathway...
Depends if the zoneline was right behind the pathway they're stood in, if it is I would just warn them of the train and we would all have to zone out.
If the zone was really far back I would just eat the death and ask for a res/some assistance.
If I was a class that could use a skill like feign death or smoke bomb I would go ahead and do that or drop an aoe mez and request some help.
So many options...
Who knows maybe I would just blind panic and not even realise they were there until it was too late and I would have to apologise and lend them a hand if possible.
Besides a /shout TRAIN TO ZONE, I would do nothing.
If they can handle the train, they will take care of it.
If they can't, they have the option to zone...if they don't zone and die, their deaths are entirely their own faults.
If they are AFK, they violated one of the basic rules of MMO gameplay: Don't go AFK in unsafe places.
Situational awareness is an element of gameplay that Pantheon wants to encourage. This goes for people sitting at a zone line too.
My general procedure would be first try to diffuse the situation myself. With EQ Wizard skills this would generally be a non issue as I would kick the j- boots and simply circle until I had enough room to snare them up, Gate, or Evac or a combination of those.
If none of the above would work, say I was OOM or something. Then 3-4 hits on the "Train To Zone" macro and I'm coming in. Time and space permitting if I saw a group at the zone entrance I would circle once in hopes they would see me in case they missed the message and then I would hit the zone.
Zone lines should NOT be considered a safe spot. More likely one of the more dangerous places to be.
I alert them and everyone else of the train with my shout emote, and then I run like a boss to improve the game's unpredictability/difficulty levels. Contributing my part to more fun for everyone!
Kilsin said:Scenario: You accidentally aggro a room full of mobs in an outdoor area, your first reaction is to run but there is a small group of players waiting patiently for a member to catch up to them in the pathway of the only exit - What do you do? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
Short answer...... Warn them from a distance, then stand and die outside of aggro range of them.
Kilsin said:Scenario: You accidentally aggro a room full of mobs in an outdoor area, your first reaction is to run but there is a small group of players waiting patiently for a member to catch up to them in the pathway of the only exit - What do you do?
In Pantheon, with the current public design goals?
Three choices:
1) Die on the spot so you don't train the group. (Mmmm fun! Hours of grinding back that XP.)
2) Run in the opposite direction of the group and die where you can't get to your body (presumably, can you outrun mobs today? yes? no?)
3) Train the group and not die yourself. (possibly killing all of them)
Selfless is punished. Honorable is punished. Selfish is rewarded. You have created the mechanics that lead to these toxic choices. /shrug
Die.
If I was running to the zone and saw it crowded with people not engaging but setting up, I would try to shout train, but run away from the group and die.
Hope that I am far enough away so they dont get proximity aggro and then work my naked self back.
if the group sends me a tell offering to drag my corpse to a safe area, I may decline at first, silently taking responsibility for my own mess up but then I may agree. ( who remembers /consent also allowed a PC to rumage through your stuff and possibly take something! or coin! so you sometimes couldn't trust strangers at first).
Well, a room full of mobs, in an outside area.
If that mob follows me outside that room, down the road and up to the zoneline ...I'm not sure why they would do that? Does that make sense to script it in such a manner? I expect, when I pull aggro in a room, that the group will follow me outside the room, but ones outside the house or reaching the boarder of that town (or whatever construction it is), they will head back. Since I'm no longer posing a threat to the room they were inhabiting..
I'm not sure I like the idea of an angry pitchfork mob following me all the way through the zone.
If that house stood just aside the zoneline, (odd place to have a house...) and that other group is standing near to that house which I've just entered...They are not standing in a safe area and will have to bare the risks of it. When I'm running out the room followed by a angry mob, the group could zone out in time, or remain idle and close their eyes in the hope the mob doesn't target them for standing so close to the mob's house.
Another point could be; (Again, the group should choose wisely where to wait on their groupmate but in their defense here.) Is it neccesary to allow aggro towards me to pass on to a bystander posing no threat to that mob.
In short, I'll storm out and hope for the group's sake that they don't engage. If there is time, I'll give them the heads up but a player running towards you with an angry mob behind him..that could be noticed by them as well. Also it depends if I know the retreat distance of the mob or not. If I know they would be screwed, I might choose to die near them but not cause them to wipe as well.
1. Try to establish enough distance between me and mobs so when I would zone, they wont aggro the other group. if that looks unsuccessful
2. /shout TRAIN and run in circles to see if they move away or zone to safety. if that is unsuccessful
3. run to a place I can find my corpse and die
The folks who say to run up to them and assume they will engage or folks who say "too bad their fault" may be technically correct but are IMO terrible players who I wouldn't want to be around.
Shyin said:I pulled the basement in Unrest last night on P99 retrieving my corpse.
I felt horrible that I couldn't get to my hotkey in time to announce the train.
It’s common courtesy to other players to give them fair warning of what's coming.
/OOC is your friend, use it!
The hot key should be programmed to use /SHOUT not ooc.
Many, myself included will have OOC turned off as it just destroys immersion. Also SHOUT usually is less used and shows up as red text making it easier to notice.
Curse VR for allowing training in the game. Players shouldn't be *able* to do something that kills other players on a pve server.
There are endless ways to make the world dangerous, unpredictable and exciting. Let teams of mobs wander randomly if you like so that at any time players need to flee or fight with very little warning. But don't give the keys to the bestiary to other players.
No need for the great majority that disagree with me to respond I know my cause is hopeless.
But Kilsin asked what I would do and that *is* what I would do first. Beyond that - no clue I've never played in a game that had this overly abusable mechanism (no I am not saying that Kilsin's scenario puts anyone in a position where they can abuse it but we all know that deliberate training happens).
vjek said:Kilsin said:Scenario: You accidentally aggro a room full of mobs in an outdoor area, your first reaction is to run but there is a small group of players waiting patiently for a member to catch up to them in the pathway of the only exit - What do you do?
In Pantheon, with the current public design goals?
Three choices:
1) Die on the spot so you don't train the group. (Mmmm fun! Hours of grinding back that XP.)
2) Run in the opposite direction of the group and die where you can't get to your body (presumably, can you outrun mobs today? yes? no?)
3) Train the group and not die yourself. (possibly killing all of them)
Selfless is punished. Honorable is punished. Selfish is rewarded. You have created the mechanics that lead to these toxic choices. /shrug
What a bleak way to view things…
In this scenario, you have to ask why the player was solo in a room full of mobs, doing something risky no doubt, with risk there is always chance of failure/death. And in an open world this can impact others. It’s part of what makes the game interesting.
Your first option which you say is selflessness punished – first of all nothing is truly selfless; it’s likely in this scenario you get a res and if res mechanics worked like EQ one you would get your xp back. You also put yourself in a scenario where maybe you earn a spot in there group later on and/or get added to friends for future grouping opportunities later on which you might not get if you had chosen to just run a train into them.
Your second option is just ridiculous why would anyone run in a direction they can’t get their body back over dying on the spot – this just makes no sense.
Your third option which you believe is rewarding selfish behaviour; well firstly, if my above statement for option one is accurate the opposite happens you might put those people off ever from grouping with you so yes you get some short-term gain but long term you lose out (potentially).
Also, your whole thing about mechanics that create toxic choices – this is ridiculous they are the exact same mechanics from an MMO that was hailed as being one of the most cooperative mmos ever to exist.
It was these punishing mechanics that lead people to help each other out and not be jerks to each other. It was also accepted that trains happened and so long as you weren’t doing it on purpose / constantly repeating mistakes the group in the scenario would not be too unhappy you trained them. Trains in the game are just par for the course and something you take into account while you’re playing and try to avoid them where possible and help people out in the event of them. Mobs not being leashed adds a huge amount of challenge and random danger to the world. Can people abuse it? Sure, but in my experience this was a very rare event and worth it for the upsides they provide.
I would shout out Train (always have a hot key for that!) and hit it a couple times as I head for the ZL. I'd zone out and then probably zone back in to see if I can help in case the party got agro or wait a few minutes for it to clear (many factors in this). If people are near a zone line or at a choke point, they need to be on their toes and be ready to get out of the way, fight or flee with the conductor of the train. It is noble to say that someone would take one for the other team (I did this in the past) but it's unrealistic and rare and again, it depends upon the circumstances. It's a cruel world out there and everything wants you dead. Trains happen, roamers path in unexpected ways. I personally like that trains happen. It keeps an element of danger in the game and often, your group can parlay a train into an opportunity to snipe some juicy targets out of the backwash.
You can look at any number of zones on Classic EQ (indoors or out) and know that trains are a fact of life. You need to be vigilant when in a zone and AFK at your own risk. Let's look at Mistmoore in EQ. Trains there got crazy and had the bonus of potentially getting yourself charmed and marched back to the castle alongside your new master (hilarity ensued once charm dropped.. queue Wacky Sax song from Benny Hill). There really was nowhere safe to go AFK. If you were fighting stuff, you pulled them aside, out of the probable path of trains. If you had to go AFK, you would usually zone out.
That's easy. Two scenarios.
#1 - I run by the group and yell for help. If no response or movement I move on and run them out or die like an NPC. The group could be afk and I wouldn't want to be a d-bag.
#2 - I run by the group and yell for help. If they turn, look and just stare without helping me. I run the train into them. They made their choice and so did I. muhahhaahhaahahaha
Trains will happen all the time, especially in early game, we just need to respect them and realize sometimes they cant always be called. we should always try our hardest but i can rem running through lguk in eq1, do you have any idea how hard it can be to call train while navigating through tigh turns, ans always having to change direction, to get to the zoneline? but back to the topic if I see a grp in my way more than likely i will back up and die a safe distance away, if i notice they are there that is.
Kilsin said:Scenario: You accidentally aggro a room full of mobs in an outdoor area, your first reaction is to run but there is a small group of players waiting patiently for a member to catch up to them in the pathway of the only exit - What do you do? #PRF #MMORPG #MMO #communitymatters
Well assuming we are not talking about a zone line and it is just a path/exit I would run straight past the players with the mob in tow. I would hit a 'Train' macro of course, but the mob shouldn't touch them as long as they don't agro it. I have to assume this mob has a range, or will it follow me forever?
If there is a zone line, I hope there are few of them, but if it is a zone line, again a quick macro and zone.
Don't hang around on zone lines. It doesnt take long to learn that skill.
As a rogue I don't think I'd even blow a smoke bomb on it. People shouldnt be hanging around zone lines expecting them to be safe.
Blood.
The amount of people willing to train and kill others for their own benefit (not dying) on these boards is absurd.
Apparently in pantheon "community matters", but only until you might die from making a mistake, then F that community they can fend for themselves.
The only true answer to this is die in a place where you can get to your corpse easily but not kill other players.