Forums » Pantheon Classes

Should tanks get better more easily?

    • 57 posts
    July 25, 2018 2:36 PM PDT

     

    Sorry title should tanks get gear more easil. Serves me right for trying to type on the bus.

    This has been a concern in other games where gear that drops is about equal level for the classes.  If a tank is wearing the normal dropped armour like the rest of the players they are considered subpar and would be replaced by a well outfitted scout.  The only tanks that seemed to be acceptable were twinks who could either afford the gear or it was obtained by the players other highe level character.

    I have also seen healers in a group wearing foil and wielding a stick that were just fine.

     

    I have played both archetype and on my tank in some cases had been told something like “ Come back when you are bigger“, while my healer road the waves of love and was eventually able to outfit my tank.  

    I am not asking for playiny a tank to be easy just it should not be hard to take some hits in a level appropriate dungeon.


    This post was edited by Tahoe at July 25, 2018 11:10 PM PDT
    • 67 posts
    July 25, 2018 10:25 PM PDT

    I understand your point: While tanks rely heavily on equipment, casters (including healers) can almost group without any equipment.

    For me, the balance in EQ was handled pretty nice: The first char you leveled was always poor, no matter if it was a caster or a tank. The casters spent all their money on spells (which were pretty expensive, and not all spells could be bought when the required level was reached), and the tanks were spending money on equipment. 

    Sure, in EQ spells were easier to get, but that will change in Pantheon. This might already bring some balance. 

    In general getting a new piece of gear should be meaningful, so I don't like the idea to make it easier. A good number of quest for decent equipment would be nice.

    On a side note: While leveling I have never seen a group drop a tank due to bad equipment. But maybe I was just lucky.


    This post was edited by Matrulak at July 25, 2018 10:29 PM PDT
    • 178 posts
    July 26, 2018 12:39 AM PDT

    this is because tanks are very gear dependant, 

    just 10 HP more might be the difference between success or wipe when the boss crit you.

    just 5 damage might be the difference between holding agro  or the mob running to the mage.

    just one block point might be the difference between blocking 1 shot or eating 1 shot.

     

    for healers, the difference between healing 100HP and 110HP is not that important, you will probably overheal it anyway.

    for DPS , also it doesnt matter, even better if you do little less damage it is easier for the tank to keep aggro. 

     

    if the tanks will be built with big array of saving skills (oh **** buttons), then they will be not so much gear dependant.

     

    • 768 posts
    July 26, 2018 2:57 AM PDT

    I get the point that a tank is "healthier" when it comes to survival with more hp or mitigation. 

    BUT when a tank dies or the group for that matter, it's not all about the tank here. The debuffs might not have been sufficiently inserted, the placement might be off, the healers might have not used the appropriate spell rotations or might have failed prioritising their abilities. Sure it's easy to point fingers at the one in front aka the tank. But a tank is not per definition the leader of the group or the one responsible for failure or success. 

    So that brings me back to your topic, no it should not be easier for tanks to get equipment. Also it will depend heavily on what the lootable looks like, if that's more about crafting resources, spells and recipes instead of full sets of equipment that drops. Well then it's all up to the player what they do with the loot that they won. And in that scenario every groupmember is equal in their character advancements and not one will be faster/easier equipped then the other.

    When you would bring up the argument, of fewer tanks being required then dps, heals or utility. Well this is entirely different issue of a game now. 

    In the case of geardrops being a part of the loottable, it's best to keep in mind that this game is not about fast progression and easy advancement. Players will have to keep that in mind when they go out adventuring. In other words, you better be prepared before engaging a mob AND be prepared to get your behind kicked, lick your wounds and learn from it. The risk of failure even for a well equipped group will still be present.

    In my humble tanking and healing experience, it's a wise thing to knock on a crafter's door and see what he has to offer before venturing outside with nothing but your skin and a blunt sword and shield. If you've equipped yourself to the max of your abilities with crafted armor and whatnot, that's the time to go out and find those mobs. If you still get your butt handed to you, you're either in the wrong region still, you're tackling the mob wrong or you could have a look at your groupsetup. In this case, I don't see why a tank should have easier access to geardrops or a higher loottable for tanks. All in good time as goes for the rest of the classes. Just think about how eager a dps class is to hit to high numbers with the newest or shiniest of staffs/spells.


    This post was edited by Barin999 at July 26, 2018 2:58 AM PDT
    • 41 posts
    July 26, 2018 5:01 AM PDT

    In EQ all you had on a Warrior was gear; now I'm not saying there wasn't some nuance to playing the class - but really gear was extremley important.

    You can see from the reveals tanks get an array of utility skills to buff up the group as well as having a lot of skills that generate threat and even taunt works differently to EQ (you can use even when the mob is already on you to build more hate/keep it focused on you). These things play a huge roll in offsetting the need for gear. 

    Anyway if you're playing from the start, no one is gonna be twinked etc a tank is a tank you aren't gonna have an issue. In my experience anyway the problem you're describing never really happened (maybe I was lucky).

     

    • 96 posts
    July 26, 2018 8:48 PM PDT

    At launch? no, it's going to be pretty difficult. With everyone starting at level 1 There's no economy or skilled crafters. You'll probably start the first 5 levels selling vender trash for some cloth. The next 5-ish doing the same for leather. By 15 you might try blacksmithing yourself some banded pieces and have 1 or 2 quested items. You could probably find someone selling crafted gear just above what a vender will give them while they practice crafting. We might go 20-25 levels before seeing platemail depending on drops. You'll start pooling money together to buy drops off of other players by then, and crafted will be old news as you pass it on to another newbie 2-5 months later depending on how hardcore you are. This is just a prediction, Pantheon might have good early dungeons that drop stat gear. The streams show the devs wearing stat gear at level 20 but it depends on how things are balanced coming out of Beta. You'll be ok. There's always a hunger for good tanks.

    • 945 posts
    July 27, 2018 6:43 AM PDT

    I completely get where you are coming from and this is one of the reasons I'm still undecided on which class I will be playing at launch.  I've been told to "come back when bigger" in other games due to low level gear and an overabundance of well geared tanks due to twinking;  As mentioned before, that won't be an issue for at least a year after release, when people start leveling "twinks" (not just alts).  So I was thinking of leveling a tank first so that I would always be relevant, and then maybe twinking a DPS if melee will be anywhere near as gear dependant as in EQ.  If they aren't gear dependant then I will likely level a support (healer or enchanter) to allow me to learn the game from a different vantage point.  Its been my experience that when you can have a bird's eye-view of the events around you (monitoring how other classes work and how NPCs path or their animations) you get a better understanding of everything.  As a tank in EQ, it was challenging keeping threat from an enemy while positioning it and monitoring the rest of the party, while looking for pops or pathing NPCs because threat was based on distance from the target and the hit boxes of the enemies weren't always exact.  "You are too far from your target. You are too far from your target.  Your target must be in front of you."  (Even though the giant's leg is immediately in front of you taking up your whole screen).  It sounds like the tank's threat toolbox is going to be much more robust here than in EQ though.  We shall see.