Forums » The Druid

Masae's Fox

    • 255 posts
    July 15, 2018 11:05 AM PDT

    I'd like to voice my vote on being able to have druid pet options, based on race. Maybe two reskins available per race for a little varity.

    Dark Myr is my primary race of choice and since they are an amphibious (once exclusively aquatic) race of beings, a salamander or an otter would be a more harmonious creature for them to bond with. Heck, even a crocadilian of some type - though maybe Ogre's would like those more. What creatures do the rest of you think fit well with the other races allowed to be Druids?

    Archai - Lizard, Beetle, Eagle

    Dark Myr - Salamander, Otter, Osprey

    Elf - Wolf, Deer, Owl

    Halfling - Fox, Badger, Blue Jay

    Human - Wolf, Ferret, Hawk

    Ogre -Bear, Lizard, Vulture

     

    Yes, I know there is some overlap. Perhaps color options. I was trying to stick with lore-friendly things.

    • 228 posts
    July 15, 2018 12:13 PM PDT

    wildenightwolf said:

    I'd like to voice my vote on being able to have druid pet options, based on race. Maybe two reskins available per race for a little varity.

    Dark Myr is my primary race of choice and since they are an amphibious (once exclusively aquatic) race of beings, a salamander or an otter would be a more harmonious creature for them to bond with. Heck, even a crocadilian of some type - though maybe Ogre's would like those more. What creatures do the rest of you think fit well with the other races allowed to be Druids?

    Archai - Lizard, Beetle, Eagle

    Dark Myr - Salamander, Otter, Osprey

    Elf - Wolf, Deer, Owl

    Halfling - Fox, Badger, Blue Jay

    Human - Wolf, Ferret, Hawk

    Ogre -Bear, Lizard, Vulture

     

    Yes, I know there is some overlap. Perhaps color options. I was trying to stick with lore-friendly things.

    Boy, I'd love to see this level of choice for Druid pets. If the devs were open to it, it would definitely get my vote.

    Lore-wise, I think it could easily be written in: "Since you are a keeper of the natural world, [Insert deity's name here] has offered you a choice of mystical avatars to accompany you on your journey. Choose whichever one you feel a bond with."

    I think something like that would be awesome.


    This post was edited by Gyldervane at July 15, 2018 12:20 PM PDT
    • 123 posts
    July 15, 2018 6:15 PM PDT

    I agree i would like to see choice.

    I don't like the idea of running around with the same companion forever.

    • 365 posts
    July 16, 2018 1:02 AM PDT
    Id bet the fox is just for halflings because theyre the banner druid, as others have said.

    As for other pets - Ogres could get an intimidating eagle or something perched on one of their massive shoulders.. seems suitably Ogric and druidic.
    Dark Myr - snakes?
    Archai - firefly? (These are just 'aspects', remember)
    Elf - raven.
    Human - dog, hehe. Er a cat?
    • 2356 posts
    July 16, 2018 11:15 AM PDT

    I don't imagine we will be seeing variations on the pet as I am sure it was something that crossed the table at some point. 

     

    I'd guess it came down to having 1 thoroughly fleshed out and fully animated + detailed pet model/design vs having a handful of less well animated/detailed/fleshed out random critters. 

     

    I also wouldn't be surprised if there are a couple other spells not listed that are gifts from other racial druidic deities/wards/spirits/whatever given to those who follow the path of a druid. 

    • 365 posts
    July 17, 2018 12:47 AM PDT

    Yes, maybe druids will appreciate other races more and so will be open to sharing and utilizing boons from other races' druidic deities. Maybe they'll appreciate some commonality between the natural worlds of all the races, and so other races' deities could complement them. It would be cool to portray Ogre Druids as the 'wisest' of their people by accepting the contribution of a halfling spirit fox, when other Ogres may ridicule the thing. Or Ogre Druids could go really savage and have their own, different spells. Either way could work. You rock, VR.

    • 29 posts
    July 25, 2018 1:08 PM PDT

    So, I was re-reading the druid release and I was thinking, is the fox the "solution" to our not having a rez?  In the ability it says our soul is bound to the fox, and it's soul to us.  So perhaps, when we die we can somehow resurrect ourselves through the fox?  Or maybe we can cause ourselves to respawn at the fox?  

    What do you guys think?

    • 718 posts
    July 25, 2018 2:07 PM PDT

    We should be getting a rez. It was specifically said that all healers will have a rez. If the fox acts as our rez, then maybe. 

    • 132 posts
    August 23, 2018 8:22 AM PDT

    Don't get me wrong, I really like the mechanics of the fox. It's not quite a pet, but it gives something to micromanage and can add that layer of skill to the class. I just really don't want to see two out of the three current healer classes have religious influences (in my head, I imagine if we're given a special soul fox by a particular deity, we owe some sort of homage to that deity).

    It would still be better (in my humble opinion) to offer choices of the companion, and not just the fox, but so long as that companion is tied to a particular deity, it still feels a bit stifling.

     

    One question that I have after rereading the spells so many times is: Does Masae give the Druid their power? Or does the Druid have power before Masae, and Masae (or whatever diety/power/thing) just gives the Druid a blessing because they're a good Druid. This question is wholly related to the lore of the class, not the mechanics. I'm just curious about how a Druid roleplayer's story might look.

    • 479 posts
    August 23, 2018 9:02 AM PDT

    Temmi said: I just really don't want to see two out of the three current healer classes have religious influences (in my head, I imagine if we're given a special soul fox by a particular deity, we owe some sort of homage to that deity).

    Does Masae give the Druid their power? Or does the Druid have power before Masae, and Masae (or whatever diety/power/thing) just gives the Druid a blessing because they're a good Druid. This question is wholly related to the lore of the class, not the mechanics. I'm just curious about how a Druid roleplayer's story might look.

    You may need to go read the text on the spell again:

    "As a preserver of the natural world, the Halfling Ward known as Masae has chosen to gift you with a mystical companion in the form of a small, white fox. Your fox is a manifestation of Masae’s own companion: the Great White Fox known as Herode."

    Masae is not a diety, she's simply a Halfling Ward.

    When used to describe a person the word 'Ward' is either used to mean a Defender or Guard or it could be used to mean the person who is being Defended or Guarded (eg Ward of the State).

    Most likely Masae is a learned and wise druid guardian who gifts you, as a druid in training, a companion who is a manifestation of her own companion.

    This is why people have theorized that this Fox is simply the Halfling version of the companion and it's possible that each race will have it's own Companion type given to you by the 'Ward' from your chosen race.

    • 132 posts
    August 23, 2018 12:59 PM PDT

    GoofyWarriorGuy said:

    You may need to go read the text on the spell again:

    "As a preserver of the natural world, the Halfling Ward known as Masae has chosen to gift you with a mystical companion in the form of a small, white fox. Your fox is a manifestation of Masae’s own companion: the Great White Fox known as Herode."

    Masae is not a diety, she's simply a Halfling Ward.

    When used to describe a person the word 'Ward' is either used to mean a Defender or Guard or it could be used to mean the person who is being Defended or Guarded (eg Ward of the State).

    Most likely Masae is a learned and wise druid guardian who gifts you, as a druid in training, a companion who is a manifestation of her own companion.

    This is why people have theorized that this Fox is simply the Halfling version of the companion and it's possible that each race will have it's own Companion type given to you by the 'Ward' from your chosen race.

     

    From the Halfling lore page: "Thereby through the people known as the Kiri was the town of Kirensound born, a name taken to honor their protector, Kiren, the Ward of Flame. For there were Six Wards of Hiryth, though Kiren loved this race above them all, and they had adopted his name in thankfulness to his care."

    In this passage, the Wards of the Halflings very much sound like deities, or at least demi-gods, based off of their blessings and their abilities. Additionally, since these Wards are the only celestial-like creatures that are spoken of in Halfling lore, it kind of lends to the idea that they are, if not divine themselves, they are the closest equivalent that the Halflings have.

     

    You're correct in theorizing that a Ward may not be a deity or anything similar. The truth is that we simply don't know right now. However, I feel that it's also warranted to worry that they might be.

    • 16 posts
    September 9, 2018 7:39 AM PDT

    The biggest thing I'm wondering is, will Hirode be capable of speech and will Druids therefore be able to interact with her through the Perception system?

    • 23 posts
    September 15, 2018 1:49 PM PDT

    I have recently decided that the druid will be my main and wanted to add my opinion to this fundemental design concept. This is a class feature that will have a big impact.

     

    I agree with the OP. Out of the solutions he offers i think the first is the best, only 2 or 3 different creatures to choose from would be enough. They do not have to have different abilities, only a visual choice is required. i will be playing an Ogre druid and like wildnightwolf's suggestion of a vulture.

    • 281 posts
    September 24, 2018 11:20 AM PDT

    Temmi brings up a valid point, as do all the rest of the comments. I had to cross my eyes a bit when the race/class matrix was first revealed to make some fit, but to be honest some still don’t.  A Halfling Ward giving an Ogre or a Dark Myr her gift?  I don’t know, it seems a bit of a stretch to me.  As you guys have said, at the very least the pet should differ from race to race and be a choice given at some point.  Lore wise, we assume then that Masae has taken over as the worldwide benefactor to all druids, somehow getting the word out that treehugging is good and then bestowing her gift on all that she finds worthy. A Dark Myr or an Ogre is capable of the required benevolence toward the natural world, but a Halfling is incapable of the required “faith” to be a Cleric.  Perhaps I read too much into the name ”Dark” Myr.  I acknowledge that previous games color my opinion somewhat, but I can accept most things as long as they make sense.  I still argue with my wife that Edward and Bella should not have been able to have a baby.


    This post was edited by Rominian at September 24, 2018 11:24 AM PDT
    • 2356 posts
    September 24, 2018 11:55 AM PDT

    Why not give Ogre/Myr druids the gift when they have shown they follow the same path as other druid? I imagine it is to her own benefit in the end as I'd bet Masae can tap into each manifestation of Hirode and keep eyes on all parts of Terminus. 

     

    The Wards are definitely not deities/gods, as that would break the lore entirely. 

    • 649 posts
    November 11, 2018 12:46 PM PST

    I tend to agree with Temmi. I think the Druid class should not be tied solely to Masae - or perhaps even at all. There are two options here.

    1. Create racially distinct sources of druidic blessings, so that an Ogre, Dark Myr, Elf, Archai, or whatever are not receiving a blessing from a Halfling guardian, but rather from some entity of their own reverence. I wholly support the concept of different animal companions for different races, alongside options for each. The idea that every single druid has the exact same copy of this single animal companion is honestly boring aesthetically.

    2. Divorce the Druid class from Herode entirely and tweak lore/descriptions to be simply raw natural magic

    Honestly I'm not really fond of the animal companion thing but love the rest of the Druid concept, so I'd be a-okay with just completely eliminating the fox pet. But if not, I'd rather at least have some level of control over what type of animal my character receives.

    • 596 posts
    November 15, 2018 12:48 PM PST

    Slightly related - this is the same reason I call B.S. on restricting Paladin to Dwarf and Human based on "Lore"?!?!  Really?... But Ogre, Dark Elf and Archai can worship Masae?  **insert eye-roll emoji**  

    In my opinion, they're doing it based on popularity i.e. to balance race/class populations - I believe this also lends to their decision to put the DL in mail instead of plate, and having late release for Bard.   If Dark Myr or Archai could be Paladins, or DL could wear Plate there would be a very high population of PAL and DL.  Dwarves were the lowest played race in EQ while Bard and Necro were the most popular classes (last time I checked a few years ago when starting on P99).

    • 2356 posts
    November 15, 2018 3:30 PM PST

    Nothing says they worship her in any capacity, nor is she a deity. 

    • 462 posts
    November 20, 2018 3:28 PM PST

    It is interesting to note that they have listed seven (7) abilities that are specific to Hirode; Flame, Focus, Gaze, Presence, Shelter, Rescue, and Chrisalis. If the other five (5) Druidic races all have their own mystical companion, either the text may have to change for these (and possibly other abilities), or perhaps the other five races will have their own unique abilities associated with their unique mystical companion. I'm not sure. The latter seems to be more work than is needed (or desired) for one class.  

    Furthermore, Gust of Leaves, Verdanfire Spear, and Rockvine Tangle require Hirode's Gaze for spell bonuses. And Upheaval requires Hirode's Focus for it's spell bonus. Again, we run into problems if other races are granted unique mystical companion's unless this is as it will be. In which case, I think much of the criticism in this thread is on point. 

    It would seem awkward and very strange to have Dark Myr or Ogres running around with adorable white foxes. Perhaps they are simply showcasing the Halfling and the other races will be slightly tweaked granting a more appropriate companion. 

    I have put this issue off since this thread started (by the way, thanks Temmi!) but since I noticed the specificity of all of these class abilities I thought I should say something. Lore can be changed (erm, updated) if needed. Oh heck, just have the diety (or ward) change their mind and present each race with an appropriate companion.

    I will not be playing a Halfling Druid and even though I love foxes, I would very much appreciate running my Druid with it's own race unique companion.

    • 6 posts
    July 29, 2019 3:26 PM PDT
    I'm also really bummed out about being forced to have a fox. In my opinion it's gimmicky. I understand how it plays into lore which is ok...to a certain point, but that point is not forcing a player to have a companion. Possible solutions could be to allow a companion selection such as a wisp. But to be truly honest I don't really even like that idea, you should be able to just select not having it at all.

    I really like how the Druid is shaping up I just feel that this level of differentiation from the other healer archetype is a major stretch and mostly going to be seen as a negative to most anybody playing the game. There may be a few people that don't mind it or don't speak up but this is a major distraction. Every Druid running around the world of terminus shouldn't have the same Fox. Sorry, common sense should rule here...
    • 1561 posts
    July 29, 2019 10:44 PM PDT

    Skyo said: I'm also really bummed out about being forced to have a fox. In my opinion it's gimmicky. I understand how it plays into lore which is ok...to a certain point, but that point is not forcing a player to have a companion. Possible solutions could be to allow a companion selection such as a wisp. But to be truly honest I don't really even like that idea, you should be able to just select not having it at all. I really like how the Druid is shaping up I just feel that this level of differentiation from the other healer archetype is a major stretch and mostly going to be seen as a negative to most anybody playing the game. There may be a few people that don't mind it or don't speak up but this is a major distraction. Every Druid running around the world of terminus shouldn't have the same Fox. Sorry, common sense should rule here...

     

    Common sense here is more or less how you choose to view the class and game overall, would a summoner really have the "choice" to play petless, even if it's core to his class ?

     

    Masae's fox is an incorporeal spirit as I understood, and not some sort of animal companion, and it has been stated in a Q/A that it will not be race based or changed.

    • 365 posts
    July 31, 2019 12:34 PM PDT
    One thing I really liked about WoW's design was the interconnection of druids. Maybe druids across races will be some of the wisest of their people, and so won't have an issue with accepting a boon from an archdruid like Masae.

    Slightly restrictive, but rationally so.
    • 48 posts
    July 31, 2019 1:37 PM PDT

    If you're a druid, you care about nature; Masae recogonies this in you and gifts you the fox. It doesn't say you make a deal to accept the fox, or you worship Masae and are then good enought for the fox. You help nature... you learn druid skills... you get fox. Maybe you don't even know how you got it, it just showed up one day and you relized you work well together. There is still enough room in the lore to RP around it, without tying you to the Halflings.

    • 2356 posts
    July 31, 2019 2:17 PM PDT

    Again I think it's important to emphasize that Masae is not a god and isn't necessarily a Halfling in appearance or even directly tied to their race. Masae is one of the six wards from their home world but like Kirin, is possibly originally charged with oversight of an entirely different race/aspect of their original planet. Masae's tie to Halflings might just be one of familiarity rather than dedication or love specifically for Halflings. 

    For there were Six Wards of Hiryth, though Kiren loved this race above them all, and they had adopted his name in thankfulness to his care. But the Ward of Flame was not charged to watch over the Kiri, rather his was to rule over a race beneath the surface of Hiryth. Yet Kirin loved the light and his people, though as punishment for his rebellion, he was sworn to never speak to the Kiri, yet could lead them in silence for a time.

     


    This post was edited by Iksar at July 31, 2019 2:18 PM PDT
    • 6 posts
    July 31, 2019 3:28 PM PDT
    Again I love the lore up until it forces me to run around with a spirit fox with no customization options, opt out ability or unique race/character choice and makes me the same as every other druid in Pantheon.

    The Fox's implementation seems to go again several of Pantheons core commitments.

    A belief that an immersive world requires intelligent inhabitants.

    An understanding that faction and alignment should be an integral part of interacting with the world and its citizens.

    An agreement that player levels should be both meaningful and memorable.