Forums » The Dire Lord

DireLord unable to wear plate armor?!

    • 2064 posts
    July 12, 2018 2:37 PM PDT

    Don't forget leather is also broken into a couple different types. Monk use light leather and monk specific armors, the rest just say leather. 

    • 1194 posts
    July 12, 2018 2:42 PM PDT

    Right, feeling in the EQ-memory I would suppose thoses armor match the "monk armors" the game had back then, with weights of 0.1lbs for most pieces.

    Maybe the monk will, again, be influenced by the weight of his possessions.

    • 753 posts
    July 15, 2018 8:33 PM PDT
    Yeah I have to say I think dire Lords are going to be great tanks, they loom to have extremely great hp regen, which will lower there downtime in between pulls, granted there ac might be lower but there magic resist be much higher, between being able to nullify damage to protecting the whole grp from magic is pretty awesome, and also being able to make an enemy not being able to dodge/parry/block/miss an attack is pretty good to, and also have harmshield which makes them deal damage while taking damage and by taking damage, so they will probably be one of the faster killing tanks as well, give them a chance, will be be the best tanks in certain encounter absolutely, will they fall short to the pally and warriors in others, yes they probably will but as I see it now that's true for all the tanks I've as of now, dl will tank magic better than pally/warrior, pally will heal grp better than dl/war, war has banners and have charges and leaps to intercept enemies.
    • 1157 posts
    July 19, 2018 12:01 PM PDT

    Krakon said:

    So no plate, no FD, no pet, and no way to pull, all that for me means no fun. So unless they add something at a later date that increases the classes utility, well, for now it's like Rooster Cogburn used to say "I bow out! I wash my hands!"

    While 'No Plate' is confirmed, there is no concrete proof that Feign Death won't be available in some form, nor is there any proof a pet in some form won't be possible and to say 'no way to pull' at this point in the development of the game is such a premature statement to make it is laughable.  We know so very little about the skills, abilities and capabilities of the classes at the highest levels.

    • 15 posts
    July 19, 2018 1:48 PM PDT

    I played an SK in EQ as well.  FD helped with pulling, but I am pretty sure I never pulled with a pet.  I always just pulled with a dot or something.  Love the thought of not wearing plate, yet being able to tank.  As discussed earlier in the posts, wearing plate would essentially make it so you took less dmg, taking damage is what helps us fuel our abilities.  I think it makes sense.

    • 19 posts
    July 21, 2018 8:44 AM PDT

    If Dire Lord had armor, we would be OP. I think of the class as blood mage tank (or vampire death dealer). Easy to pull and buff. Great duo partner. Ready to have fun ^_^

    • 35 posts
    July 23, 2018 2:24 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Krakon said:

    So no plate, no FD, no pet, and no way to pull, all that for me means no fun. So unless they add something at a later date that increases the classes utility, well, for now it's like Rooster Cogburn used to say "I bow out! I wash my hands!"

    While 'No Plate' is confirmed, there is no concrete proof that Feign Death won't be available in some form, nor is there any proof a pet in some form won't be possible and to say 'no way to pull' at this point in the development of the game is such a premature statement to make it is laughable.  We know so very little about the skills, abilities and capabilities of the classes at the highest levels.

     

    You can keep the fires burning bright for this class if you want, but as i've already said earlier, as it stands now, its useless to me.


    This post was edited by Krakon at July 23, 2018 2:25 PM PDT
    • 88 posts
    July 28, 2018 7:32 AM PDT

    mallanb81 said:

    I think it makes sense.  Their abilities revolve around their bleeding and causing enemies to bleed.  I would think plate would make it difficult to spread their blood, just like how they use slashing weapons so they can make enemies bleed.

     

    Correct in their lore of the class its states that. So it does balance out the tanks.

    • 79 posts
    November 12, 2018 8:24 AM PST

    Sato said: Also coming from Everquest, I think Shadowknights were an awful class and am delighted to see a different direction. I wonder if these same EQ players were dismayed when Vanguard announced their concept of a Dread Lord? Most Vanguard players have been excited to see the Dire Lord take after their Dread Lord. Any VG players able to comment about the tanking ability of a Dread Lord?

    EQ Shadow Knight

    VG Dread Knight

    Both were Knights both wore plate armor. Similar in nearly every base aspect. Sure they played differently because they had different mechanics, but for the most part, they just had different ways of doing the same things... Life Tap & Debuff.  So while they played slightly different and had some slightly different mechanics and ability usages EQ SK's adapted fairly quickly. The majority of SK to DK on my site when I was still running the DK community forums actually preferred the Dread Knight over the Shadow Knight, one of the most prevalent reasons was that it was built to tank and had a more involved playstyle with Dreadful Countenance. 

    From my understanding after the class lead program was shut down Tank Classes went through a series of imbalances. So I can not speak to anything after 2009. However, in the beginning, Raive, Barrar, and I (Warrior, Paladin, Dread Knight Class Leads) cross communicated weekly and worked with the class developers so that each Tank Class could tank as well as any other at any tier of gameplay. 

     

    To answer you a direct question... DK's were at one time the go to MT's in VG. As with any game, tanks fluctuate based on developer decisions to implement changes to the game that impact tanks gameplay. 

    Case in point Pairing a Necromancer with a Paladin in later VG versions made the Paladin a better tank in nearly most encounters. As the Necromancer could change any creature to undead, therefore, bolstering the Paladins ability to tank that creature. Now that was not a change to the Paladin class, the Dev's did not change the Paladins abilities or give them anything new and more beneficial. Rather they made a change to another class, Necromancer, which in inadvertently or maybe purposely made the Paladin the better tank. 

     

    TLDR:

    Shadow Knights and Dread Knights both wore plate armor,

    Both classes had nearly identical ability lineups, 

    They played slightly different, but the strong similarities made the transition easy. 

    A lot of former EQ SK players that made the transition DK prefered the DK over the SK. 

    Yes, the DK could MT and did so very well for quite some time. 

    As with any game MT is a rotational position based on changes to the game.

    No one tank is on top for the entirety of a games lifespan. 

     

     

    • 326 posts
    November 28, 2018 1:49 PM PST

    Perhaps armor will just be for looks and won't contribute to mitigation (doubtful but we don't know for certain).  What we do know is that there is an armor proficiency skill that will help determine mitigation... its a fairly safe bet that although the cleric can wear plate that they will not have the mitigation of a warrior or paladin (or possibly even the DL) likely due to the armor prof skill.  I personally will not be playing any mail wearers because its not my style thematically.  I usually go with a beefy plate wearer for my tanks, and either robes or armorless (monk) for my DPS choices... I typically don't enjoy playing classes that wear leather exclusively either.  These preferences of mine are for end game too... I understand that you gotta wear what you can find as you progress through the levels.  With that said, it is very possible that even the classes that can wear plate may not have access to it at the lower tier levels *shrug* 

    • 206 posts
    December 3, 2018 10:22 AM PST

    As long as heavy chain has a "plate" look to it in some aspects (particularly "end game gear"), I'm fine with DLs not having plate armor. I care more about the aesthetic of the plate than the mitigation that plate brings. Plate just looks too sexy to give up completely.

    • 31 posts
    December 3, 2018 5:42 PM PST

    Seems like VR has a pretty clear vision for this class. Between the concept art, the streams, and the revised pages I don't think we'll get plate nor a "plate look". Which, as a future DL-main I don't mind. What I'm really interested in is how they're going to visually separate the "mail" from the "light mail". Given the classes that wear "light mail" I'm hoping the DL will be less chain and more banded, splint, and scale. More FFXIV Dragoon than Marauder.

    As for the mitigation. The governing tank stat has always been effective health, not armor. Paladins have plate + self-healing, warriors have plate + 20% armor, DL has %MAX_Health recovery. Warriors just lose health very slowly but never gain it back. Paladins lose health faster but recover it at the expense of mana in bursts. DL loses health the fastest but is constantly recovering health. In a slower game like this, the law of averages (and regular balancing by VR) should keep effective health similar between tanks.

    BUT WHAT ABOUT DAMAGE SPIKES!? I hear the peanut gallery yelling. Let me, rhetorically, ask you this: if your main survivability comes from %MAX_HEALTH abilities, what stat are you going to invest heavily into? We can take big hits because we'll have the health pool to take it in the face. If anyone should worry it's the warriors, armor means nothing when you're debuffed, rooted in a fire, and depend on a bonus to healing from other people as your ONLY EH recovery. Personally, I'd take pally stuns or DL anti-magic over "heavy plate" any day.

    • 206 posts
    December 4, 2018 10:50 AM PST

    That separation and distinction between "light chain" and "heavy chain" is what I'm really looking for when I say that I hope the heavy chain has a somewhat plate aesthetic to it. It needs to be somewhat bulkier and more durable looking than light chain. Considering that, I agree that heavy chain with a bulkier look centered on banded, splint, or scale designs would be ideal.

    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/25/93/12/259312b7e559d140f4c262930d6ad056.jpg

    Ignore the helmet, but otherwise that armor is badass and distinct from plate armor. Banded mail when done right has an incredible aesthetic.

    Otherwise, I'm happy with the overall design of the DL mechanically, I think it's a unique take on a class that has been traditionally difficult to balance.

    • 1194 posts
    December 4, 2018 1:44 PM PST

    Not a fan of this game-line but this one looks pretty badass too :

     

    • 326 posts
    December 7, 2018 1:23 PM PST

    Sicario said:

    As long as heavy chain has a "plate" look to it in some aspects (particularly "end game gear"), I'm fine with DLs not having plate armor. I care more about the aesthetic of the plate than the mitigation that plate brings. Plate just looks too sexy to give up completely.

    I agree.  Plate is so sexy in every MMO... even in MMOs with poor graphics (compared to chain).  Even though I want to play the BRD, I would be very sad for the DL if the BRD (along with the cleric) gets to wear the sexy armors.   Also... the devs did away with the "heavy mail" and changed it to "mail" a few months ago.

    @M.O. - The witcher would look much sexier in plate armor...


    This post was edited by Darch at December 7, 2018 1:31 PM PST