Forums » The Dire Lord

Its here

    • 124 posts
    June 14, 2018 2:24 AM PDT

    all in all i love what i read.

    the one thing i dont really like is the no plate-armor. this is more a style-question...i hope that chain-helm will also look cool (often i prefer the full plate helmet a lot better than chain...)

    i love the more offensive playstyle of the DL...lifeleech, crits, dual wielding 1hands / 2hander tanking...WOW! Bring it!

    also the "group immun to magic" skill and "neglet all healing the mob receives for a short time" (cleric mobs) sounds really powerfull and crucial for raiding. i really like those utiliy skills. DL seems to most tanky when it comes to magic encounter.

    since resources seem to be build by damage done + damage received i could imagine to be able to play a more "beserker-style" and dps oriented role. ideal offtank in my opinion.

    cant wait to get my hands on DL ingame i admit :).

    • 424 posts
    June 14, 2018 3:44 AM PDT
    The Direlord kinda reminds me of the blood death knight from wow. Jep i said it, but then again it is a very strong class that many players enjoy.

    I hope the team and testers can tweak the Direlord in such way that it's possible for them to main tank as hard encounters as the warriors or the paladin. And at the same time not be able to solo everything due to no need of healing.
    • 724 posts
    June 14, 2018 12:37 PM PDT

    You are totally right, this is not eq1 SK. That does suck and i empathize with you. I played a SK to a decent level and loved it. I also played a monk and a rogue. For me i will probably end up playing a DL as it just fits my playstyle of needing a tanking class and loving aggro control and dps. Plus i usually steer away from good classes anyway. I still need to see how all the classes play ingame before i make final choice.

    I hope they revisit the idea of a SK plate necro pet class though. I wouldn't be surprised if they bring about a War-Wizard/Necro that wears plate. Its already in the Lore for the most part. But you will probably end up on the DPS spectrum and not the Tanking spectrum. 

    • 820 posts
    June 14, 2018 2:14 PM PDT

    I'm actually very excited about this reveal. Initially, Paladin was my first pick for tanking, and while I'll still make one I also find myself drawn to the innovation of the DL. 

    Something that has always bugged me about MMOs is how similar the classes are within their roles. Tanks tank the same. Healers heal the same. Sure, there are some differences - such as some tanks have good AoE aggro, some have better single aggro. Some have snap aggro abilities and some build a lot of aggro over time. Some use a shield for defense, some pick up a giant 2-hander. But they all just ...they're all the same. Mitigation is still always physical mitigation. 

    But it looks like DL is trying to break that trend, much like my beloved Warden class in LOTRO did. Without plate, they would need to rely on Lifetaps/lifeleech and avoidance mitigation. They now sound like the underdog tank. The tank that most people are bad at, but when you find a good one, you find a god among tanks. When you're a good Paladin or a good Warrior, they'll say "oh yea, he's/she's a good tank" and people will nod. 

    When you're a good Dire Lord? You'll be called for by name. 

    Getting excited.


    This post was edited by Tralyan at June 14, 2018 4:15 PM PDT
    • 97 posts
    June 14, 2018 2:22 PM PDT

    Torahdane said: As a long time fan of EQ, and someone that mained as an SK for 15+ of those years and still plays on TLP servers I am very disappointed by this reveal. No plate, no FD, no pet, no shield, I don't think there is even actual fear? Just aggro? Can only use one type of weapon? This class sounds nothing like an SK, it sounds like a berserker. Now, yes, no one said they were going to make an SK, and maybe they will someday in the future, but for me, this was an extreme let down. Flame me all you like, but this is from someone that was really looking forward to playing a game like EQ, with a class that was even half as cool as an SK.

    They've stated that these are not complete lists of skills so to say no FD, pet, fear, etc. is just unfounded at this point.  Take a deep breath and wait and see what the entire DL skillset brings once all is revealed.

     

  • Wig
    • 180 posts
    June 14, 2018 4:00 PM PDT
    @Tralyan

    Your post gave me goosebumps
    • 745 posts
    June 14, 2018 4:16 PM PDT

    Tralyan said:

    I'm actually very excited about this reveal. Initially, Paladin was my first pick for tanking, and while I'll stay make one I also find myself drawn to the innovation of the DL. 

    Something that has always bugged me about MMOs is how similar the classes are within their roles. Tanks tank the same. Healers heal the same. Sure, there are some differences - such as some tanks have good AoE aggro, some have better single aggro. Some have snap aggro abilities and some build a lot of aggro over time. Some use a shield for defense, some pick up a giant 2-hander. But they all just ...they're all the same. Mitigation is still always physical mitigation. 

    But it looks like DL is trying to break that trend, much like my beloved Warden class in LOTRO did. Without plate, they would need to rely on Lifetaps/lifeleech and avoidance mitigation. They now sound like the underdog tank. The tank that most people are bad at, but when you find a good one, you find a god among tanks. When you're a good Paladin or a good Warrior, they'll say "oh yea, he's/she's a good tank" and people will nod. 

    When you're a good Dire Lord? You'll be called for by name. 

    Getting excited.

    Further to your point, I don't think this idea simply applies to the DL - I feel like the depth and creativity of all the tank classes (and all the classes to this point, truthfully) seem to hint at a high skill ceiling.  So while the DL might have some things working against it on the surface (i.e. chain vs. plate) which will require skill to overcome, I hope that each class has plenty of room for a truly skilled player to shine.  In other words, a good player of any class will stand out among the crowd, while a great player will have songs sung by the bards in their honor!

    Not specific to the DL, but I am so excited about the general class design philosophy as a whole. \m/ VR

    • 106 posts
    June 14, 2018 5:15 PM PDT

    Torahdane said: Now, yes, no one said they were going to make an SK, and maybe they will someday in the future, but for me, this was an extreme let down.

    My last big run in an MMO was my DK main in Vanguard, and I have to agree that when I first read the reveal I felt a good bit of disappointment that it was so different from the 'new and improved DK' that I was hoping for. But now that the first shock has warn off, it's looking pretty dang good just the same. Just remember that there's quite a lot left to learn about it before the game opens, and lots of time for changes. Don't give up on it yet.

     

    Daloskar said:  Not actually sure how they are classifying the mail armor as of yet though.

    You're quite correct, I am certainly assuming (!) that there are only 3 classes of armor - light, medium and heavy - and that most medium armor users will be able to use most if not all types of it. I hope I'm wrong on that, and if that's my biggest problem with DL then the class is gonna be great anyway!

     

    BamBam said: I hope the team and testers can tweak the Direlord in such way that it's possible for them to main tank as hard encounters as the warriors or the paladin. And at the same time not be able to solo everything due to no need of healing.

    I think this right here may well be the 'make or break' issue with DL. I have a lot of faith in VR, but I'm gonna keep my fingers crossed as well.

    • 27 posts
    June 14, 2018 5:15 PM PDT

    Tralyan said:

    When you're a good Dire Lord? You'll be called for by name. 

    They will fear the name Cocomojoe! MHAHAHAHA!!!!!

    • 320 posts
    June 14, 2018 8:54 PM PDT

    BamBam said: The Direlord kinda reminds me of the blood death knight from wow. Jep i said it, but then again it is a very strong class that many players enjoy. I hope the team and testers can tweak the Direlord in such way that it's possible for them to main tank as hard encounters as the warriors or the paladin. And at the same time not be able to solo everything due to no need of healing.

     

    I don't think they will.  They said on one of the PAX streams that they aren't scared about having some classes within an archtype be better at certain things than others.  A Dire Lord with Mail Armor and no Shield is never going to be able to tank as well as a Warrior or Paladin.  At least againt melee mobs.  They might be amazing against caster raid mobs though.

    And conversely, they might be the absolute best group xp-grind tank due to added DPS and self heals.  And VR says that's ok, they aren't trying for perfect balance in all things.  Some classes will be better than others at certain things and that is by design.

    My guess is that Dire Lords are going to be off tanks and DPS/Support on raids except against caster bosses.  And in groups, there may well be some hard hitting melee mini-bosses in dungeons that you won't be able to tank.  But there might be a wizard mini-boss in there as well that a Warrior struggles to survive against.  

    • 1561 posts
    June 14, 2018 11:42 PM PDT

    Mathir said:

    BamBam said: The Direlord kinda reminds me of the blood death knight from wow. Jep i said it, but then again it is a very strong class that many players enjoy. I hope the team and testers can tweak the Direlord in such way that it's possible for them to main tank as hard encounters as the warriors or the paladin. And at the same time not be able to solo everything due to no need of healing.

     

    I don't think they will.  They said on one of the PAX streams that they aren't scared about having some classes within an archtype be better at certain things than others.  A Dire Lord with Mail Armor and no Shield is never going to be able to tank as well as a Warrior or Paladin.  At least againt melee mobs.  They might be amazing against caster raid mobs though.

    And conversely, they might be the absolute best group xp-grind tank due to added DPS and self heals.  And VR says that's ok, they aren't trying for perfect balance in all things.  Some classes will be better than others at certain things and that is by design.

    My guess is that Dire Lords are going to be off tanks and DPS/Support on raids except against caster bosses.  And in groups, there may well be some hard hitting melee mini-bosses in dungeons that you won't be able to tank.  But there might be a wizard mini-boss in there as well that a Warrior struggles to survive against.  

    They also said every class would be equally functionnal at their role, it's really left to our own interpretation to categorize what will be equality and what will be class diversity for now, but while I agree with you on some points (shield less and plate less), I know this differance can be trivialized by proper tuning and other games already made leather tanks as effective as plate wearing ones.

    I doesn't mean they won't choose to make them crunchier against physical damage, but it means they might not choose do it but throw a few scaling tricks from under the hood.

    • 99 posts
    June 14, 2018 11:46 PM PDT

    Mathir said:

    BamBam said: The Direlord kinda reminds me of the blood death knight from wow. Jep i said it, but then again it is a very strong class that many players enjoy. I hope the team and testers can tweak the Direlord in such way that it's possible for them to main tank as hard encounters as the warriors or the paladin. And at the same time not be able to solo everything due to no need of healing.

     

    I don't think they will.  They said on one of the PAX streams that they aren't scared about having some classes within an archtype be better at certain things than others.  A Dire Lord with Mail Armor and no Shield is never going to be able to tank as well as a Warrior or Paladin.  At least againt melee mobs.  They might be amazing against caster raid mobs though.

    And conversely, they might be the absolute best group xp-grind tank due to added DPS and self heals.  And VR says that's ok, they aren't trying for perfect balance in all things.  Some classes will be better than others at certain things and that is by design.

    My guess is that Dire Lords are going to be off tanks and DPS/Support on raids except against caster bosses.  And in groups, there may well be some hard hitting melee mini-bosses in dungeons that you won't be able to tank.  But there might be a wizard mini-boss in there as well that a Warrior struggles to survive against.  

    yep will be the go to caster boss and the paly wil be to go to undead tank. But the sk is most definitely  the dps tank with extra crit chance on duel wield  and the extra cirt dam on 2 hand  plus if u get hit by a crit your next hit heals u. And lots to do with crits and lifetaps and the few different  deals on self regen we have a med state for quicker down time that adds extra regen. And we have a passive  that say the lower our hp hits the higher our regen gets.. so a low lv mob may never beable to kill u of u haventhe right gear lol 

    • 15 posts
    June 15, 2018 4:36 AM PDT

    Im a bit disappointed to be honest.  I don't dislike the concept per se.  It looks interesting.  But I was hoping to have an antipaladin to play with.  This seems more like a medium armored witch than a knight to me.

    • 724 posts
    June 15, 2018 12:27 PM PDT

    I think the biggest hurdle was to create each class as its own unique identity. Even the warrior is revamped from the norm. This is more inline with the Beserker of eq1 with some meddling with other game classes thrown in. As far as the vision for this particular class it is definitly unique, same as pally and warrior. I would play either one at this point. That speaks of the quality of design choices. 

    Yes, i would have loved to see a dark knight opposite of the Pally. As i would also love to see a dark cleric opposite a cleric. Does it make more sense to have this class ingame though? /nod 

     

    • 24 posts
    June 15, 2018 1:53 PM PDT

    While I am not too worried about the class from a balance or functionality standpoint (its easy to use some passives to make mail as good as plate for a given class) it is probably a deal breaker for me from aestheic standpoint. I'll be honest, it is a very disappointing decision to make a tank use inferior (both in appearance and function) armor.

    If they are going to be valid tanks due to number juggling and passives, then why bother with the inferior appearance? Just to avoid having all three plate classes use plate? This seems like a decision without considering player desires. While I have seen some feedback that people 'don't care' I have not see much feedback that any likes this decision.

    If it is not going to be just as good as the other two for tanking then its an all around poor decision.

    If its going to be mitigated by numbers or passives, and its not going to look like crappy mail armor, then it is a distinction without a difference, and again a seemingly poor decision.

    Perhaps they were just worried that most who wanted to tank would lean towards the DL kit over the Pally or War. Thus if they make that choice look worse it might push people on the fence over to the less popular choices...

    • 99 posts
    June 15, 2018 2:00 PM PDT

    Unless there are some cheesy mitigation abilities in place for the DL, there is simply no way a chain class is going to be tanking end game content.

    They are apparently trying to balance DL's lack of mitigation with self healing, but anyone who has MTed end game content knows the key to being a viable end game tank is to survive being killed in a single attack round. Self healing isn't going to help a DL survive these encounters, and they will not be able to MT it.

    This is extremely disappointing and eliminates the class as an option for me. I have no interest in playing a class whose role is "most efficient group tank". 

    • 27 posts
    June 15, 2018 2:19 PM PDT
    I'm glad to see other players disappointment in the Dire Lord class reveal. I was really worried that it was going to be one of the most sought after classes, which is a turn off for me, because I would like to see a variety of classes throughout the game. I am really excited to try this class and hope the people who didn't get what they were expecting find it in another class. I know I was looking forward to reading the Paladin reveal and was amazed by it, then read this Dire Lord reveal and was taken back by how drawn I was to it. Every class will have it's role in the game, as long as you are playing what you enjoy, what whatever responsibilities that entails should come easy to you.
    • 99 posts
    June 15, 2018 2:28 PM PDT

    Raidil said:

    Mathir said:

    BamBam said: The Direlord kinda reminds me of the blood death knight from wow. Jep i said it, but then again it is a very strong class that many players enjoy. I hope the team and testers can tweak the Direlord in such way that it's possible for them to main tank as hard encounters as the warriors or the paladin. And at the same time not be able to solo everything due to no need of healing.

     

    I don't think they will.  They said on one of the PAX streams that they aren't scared about having some classes within an archtype be better at certain things than others.  A Dire Lord with Mail Armor and no Shield is never going to be able to tank as well as a Warrior or Paladin.  At least againt melee mobs.  They might be amazing against caster raid mobs though.

    And conversely, they might be the absolute best group xp-grind tank due to added DPS and self heals.  And VR says that's ok, they aren't trying for perfect balance in all things.  Some classes will be better than others at certain things and that is by design.

    My guess is that Dire Lords are going to be off tanks and DPS/Support on raids except against caster bosses.  And in groups, there may well be some hard hitting melee mini-bosses in dungeons that you won't be able to tank.  But there might be a wizard mini-boss in there as well that a Warrior struggles to survive against.  

    yep will be the go to caster boss and the paly wil be to go to undead tank. But the sk is most definitely  the dps tank with extra crit chance on duel wield  and the extra cirt dam on 2 hand  plus if u get hit by a crit your next hit heals u. And lots to do with crits and lifetaps and the few different  deals on self regen we have a med state for quicker down time that adds extra regen. And we have a passive  that say the lower our hp hits the higher our regen gets.. so a low lv mob may never beable to kill u of u haventhe right gear lol 

     

    Great, the DL is the "trivial content tank".

    Sounds like a class anyone looking to MT anyhting will want no part of.

    They are shaping up to be some sort of kool-kid solo class with limited DPS. There will be no place for that class in end game content.

    This is by far the most disappointing class reveal so far.

    • 2356 posts
    June 15, 2018 4:53 PM PDT

    Too much doom and gloom going around.

     

    We don't have any data suggesting there is a massive difference between heavy mail and plate armor in terms of mitigation. We have no numbers at all even. DL might have 20% higher base HP, double the base regen, the defensive abilities they have might be on lower cooldowns, resources might generate faster than other tanks, etc.

     

    If a warrior is taking 70 DPS and a Dire Lord 100 DPS but the DL regens 10 HPS and leeches 20 HPS via lifesteal/spells then it doesn't seem to me that there would be any major problem. 

    • 820 posts
    June 15, 2018 4:57 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Too much doom and gloom going around.

     

    We don't have any data suggesting there is a massive difference between heavy mail and plate armor in terms of mitigation. We have no numbers at all even. DL might have 20% higher base HP, double the base regen, the defensive abilities they have might be on lower cooldowns, resources might generate faster than other tanks, etc.

     

    If a warrior is taking 70 DPS and a Dire Lord 100 DPS but the DL regens 10 HPS and leeches 20 HPS via lifesteal/spells then it doesn't seem to me that there would be any major problem. 

    Quoting this just cuz it needs to be said twice. Everyone calm down. 


    This post was edited by Tralyan at June 15, 2018 4:57 PM PDT
    • 27 posts
    June 15, 2018 5:17 PM PDT

    I see the DL working in two ways.

    The first is an off tank that can drastically help the main tank. The abilities I see helping with this would be 

    Dire Mark

    You mark a member of your group. Whenever that group member takes damage, X% of that damage will be redirected to you.

     

    Relentless Vitality

    Passive Ability. The lower your health, the stronger your natural health regeneration becomes.

    Dire marks X% would have to be big.

    The other would be a caster tank. This would have to be done threw encounter design. I would see the warrior being the go to tank for most but have a hard time with casters. They could make it so that the heavier your armor is the more magic damage you take or something like that.

    The pally would be the go to for undead multiple smaller enemies. They would also have the casters problems.

    This is just me guessing on it and I have no idea what they have planed I hope it is not the cool kid tank. I do like what I see but years of gaming has taught me that with no plate and no shield would make it not be a verry good end game tank and will not be able to bring good dps.

     

    Iksar said:

    Too much doom and gloom going around.

     

    We don't have any data suggesting there is a massive difference between heavy mail and plate armor in terms of mitigation. We have no numbers at all even. DL might have 20% higher base HP, double the base regen, the defensive abilities they have might be on lower cooldowns, resources might generate faster than other tanks, etc.

     

    If a warrior is taking 70 DPS and a Dire Lord 100 DPS but the DL regens 10 HPS and leeches 20 HPS via lifesteal/spells then it doesn't seem to me that there would be any major problem. 

    also this


    This post was edited by COCOMOJOE at June 15, 2018 5:21 PM PDT
    • 58 posts
    June 15, 2018 5:20 PM PDT

    Tralyan said:

    I'm actually very excited about this reveal. Initially, Paladin was my first pick for tanking, and while I'll still make one I also find myself drawn to the innovation of the DL. 

    Something that has always bugged me about MMOs is how similar the classes are within their roles. Tanks tank the same. Healers heal the same. Sure, there are some differences - such as some tanks have good AoE aggro, some have better single aggro. Some have snap aggro abilities and some build a lot of aggro over time. Some use a shield for defense, some pick up a giant 2-hander. But they all just ...they're all the same. Mitigation is still always physical mitigation. 

    But it looks like DL is trying to break that trend, much like my beloved Warden class in LOTRO did. Without plate, they would need to rely on Lifetaps/lifeleech and avoidance mitigation. They now sound like the underdog tank. The tank that most people are bad at, but when you find a good one, you find a god among tanks. When you're a good Paladin or a good Warrior, they'll say "oh yea, he's/she's a good tank" and people will nod. 

    When you're a good Dire Lord? You'll be called for by name. 

    Getting excited.

     

    I may disagree with you on PvP servers for Pantheon (I know, not relevant here), but what you said here is a perfect summation of my feelings toward the class. I, too, was pretty set on Paladin for my tanking class but the DL just looks so interesting on the surface. Also, I saw another one of your posts (I think it was yours) talking about opting for least/lesser played classes, and that also fits my approach.

    • 35 posts
    June 15, 2018 6:02 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Too much doom and gloom going around.

     

    We don't have any data suggesting there is a massive difference between heavy mail and plate armor in terms of mitigation. We have no numbers at all even. DL might have 20% higher base HP, double the base regen, the defensive abilities they have might be on lower cooldowns, resources might generate faster than other tanks, etc.

     

    If a warrior is taking 70 DPS and a Dire Lord 100 DPS but the DL regens 10 HPS and leeches 20 HPS via lifesteal/spells then it doesn't seem to me that there would be any major problem. 

    You have to take into account spell resists, which if its a high level raid mob then there's a good chance there will be, unless the Dev's leave it out completely or otherwise make DL's taps unresistable, which opens an entirely new can of worms. But all that aside its like the guy above said, if they cant survive the opening shot then they have no place in a raid tanking a boss or even high level trash.


    This post was edited by Krakon at June 15, 2018 6:05 PM PDT
    • 99 posts
    June 15, 2018 7:21 PM PDT

     So from what i can tell the war will need str cha and con in that order the paly will need str wis cha and con and rhe dl will only need str and con so we mite end up with a high hp   and it looks as tho theres going to be 3 lv of mail so we mite not be as be hind in ac this mite only be to add to looks rather  than tanking  if the dl is the only class useing heavy  mail and its ac is equal  to plate or just a couple  points off it mite not be bad.

    We will do more damage. And we mite be more speedy to giving more riposte  perry and dodge. Looks like our regen will be insane  ish. And its possible  that one of the races will have regen to that could stack.im.ok if i can be mt on all bosses and they can make it so that we have nitch bosses to mt on raids. And mini bosses  im sure a will geares and played dl with a good knowledgeable  group will take down whats needed.

    Let keep a small open mind for alpha  testing.  if we are way under powered thin as a group we should let them know spam the hell out of them.i think we beat the horse  to death on the mail plate side. So lets chat on the skills what looks good what look like it will never be use

    • 228 posts
    June 16, 2018 1:43 AM PDT

    I really liked the dire lord reveal and am looking forward to trying one out. I'm not too worried about the lack of plate armor (if that's even the case--the description just said "mail," with no clear indication if that meant just chain or plate as well). Joppa has stated that they're working to balance the tanks so they will all be equally viable, though different situations will surely favor one or another. If dire lords wear lighter armor, I have faith that the devs will still work it out so that they are on par with warriors and paladins overall. Remember, even the reveals don't give us the full picture of all that the classes can do! :)


    This post was edited by Gyldervane at June 16, 2018 1:45 AM PDT