Forums » News and Announcements

Class Reveals & Game Updates Highlight the June Newsletter

    • 3237 posts
    June 15, 2018 3:18 PM PDT

    I think people are making harsh assumptions based on pre-alpha footage.  Yes, content that isn't quite balanced matched up against developers playing classes that still have kits that need to be fully implemented and wearing gear that isn't fleshed out, while answering a variety of questions from the community, trying to entertain the community, interact with the streamer, and show off specific features of the game.  I think it's safe to say that they are a bit distracted and rather than spending time mastering the art of "temporary tanking that will probably see a big patch soon, and again soon thereafter, repeated for the foreseeable future" they are focused on core design elements and the "bigger picture."  Let's cut them some slack and learn to see the forest through the trees.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at June 15, 2018 3:29 PM PDT
    • 56 posts
    June 15, 2018 3:22 PM PDT

    Shots fired at Roenick and Brad. Comments?

    • 769 posts
    June 15, 2018 3:37 PM PDT

    Those bemoaning the viability of DL's as a tank - everybody calm down. VR isn't the only MMO to create a viable tank that doesn't wear plate. It's been done before, and successfully. 

    Be upset that it doesn't fit your preconceived notions of what a Dire Lord should be, that's fine, but to suggest it won't be able to stand toe-to-toe with the other tanks is pure (and wrong) speculation. Again, it's been done. 

    • 76 posts
    June 15, 2018 4:12 PM PDT

    To claim that a class will have no end game role this early in development is honestly one hell of a leap. many games have worked the leather or mail tank in to the mmo world easily and some even did it by mistake,

    examples :

    the WoW druid

    the ffxi ninja

    the eq2 monk and bruiser (although they ended up more as off tanks)

    i would wait and see how these things work as the game goes futher on, as long as the class has some way to mitgate damage i dont think we should worry. also dont forget that there is always going to be a "best" tank in the eyes of the comunity, it is how we do things but that "best" tank wont always be the "best" as balance and tweeks happen. 

    i for one like the idea of a physical tank, a magic resistance tank and a supernatural killer tank as long as in basic play they all work at the same level but really shine in their niches.


    This post was edited by Akailo at June 15, 2018 4:13 PM PDT
    • 999 posts
    June 15, 2018 4:25 PM PDT

    As I'm interested in the Dire Lord, I'll admit, one of the first things that jumped out at me was the Mail vs. Plate option.  However, I'm also "ok" with their being a "best option" at tank in any given scenario as long as the non-optimal tanks can make up for it either with a creative group structure and/or skilled player.  Based on the provided information, I'd imagine there would be specific types of mobs (casters) that Dire Lords would be better tanks for than Warriors/Paladins and vise versa.

    However, I like that the accepted foundation for the classes seems to be intact (even if it appears to be more D&D than EQ or VG), and, I like the innovation that the developers are trying with the skills by almost creating an extra meta-game (strategy) within the skillsets with the resources.  If necessary, they can always return to the standard norm if the classes don't play well in PA, alpha, or beta - I like that they appear to be improving on or trying to expand on traditional classes while still remaining true to defined classes.

    Anyway - good newsletter - I really enjoy the detailed class reveals.

    • 201 posts
    June 15, 2018 7:57 PM PDT

    Akailo said:

    To claim that a class will have no end game role this early in development is honestly one hell of a leap. many games have worked the leather or mail tank in to the mmo world easily and some even did it by mistake,

    examples :

    the WoW druid

    the ffxi ninja

    the eq2 monk and bruiser (although they ended up more as off tanks)

    i would wait and see how these things work as the game goes futher on, as long as the class has some way to mitgate damage i dont think we should worry. also dont forget that there is always going to be a "best" tank in the eyes of the comunity, it is how we do things but that "best" tank wont always be the "best" as balance and tweeks happen. 

    i for one like the idea of a physical tank, a magic resistance tank and a supernatural killer tank as long as in basic play they all work at the same level but really shine in their niches.



    Exactly it's really sad to see people ******** and moaning about something that's not 100% set in stone and implemented yet and expect the Developers to play on the Die hard raiding nerd hard ons for end game raids level gameplay in pre-alpha......
    Here let me say this again for the people in the back that have a hard time reading / hearing

    PRE-ALPHA

    Yes people the game is still in PRE-ALPHA, leave the criticism at the door until you can play-test / play. The game has not even release into Alpha/Beta access yet and you're already making crappy guesses on what Tank's will be the MT and that the DireLord will be completely useless outside of solo and small groups. (not aimed at you Akailo)

    • 626 posts
    June 15, 2018 8:24 PM PDT

    Loved the newsletter and reveals. Can't wait to see them all in action. 

     

    Plus, can I just say... I'll hold my criticism of anyone playing until I get a chance to experience it myself. There is a multitude of factors that go into each fight, and many key pieces that aren't as easily seen by us watching. CC's working or not, bugs, mob/player lvls, buffs, heals, and abilities maybe not tuned correctly just yet all working in one short window live in front of us all. Don't knock till you try it I guess is all I'm saying. 

     

    PS - Roenick just died... again. 


    This post was edited by Reignborn at June 15, 2018 8:24 PM PDT
    • 287 posts
    June 15, 2018 9:25 PM PDT
    This thread reminds me that VR needs to make a min/maxer server for those who have to be the best and race to end game arguing over perceved weak classes. Some of us play these games to have fun regardless of having the best in class tank or healer.
    • 248 posts
    June 16, 2018 3:42 AM PDT

    Thank you for the newsletter!

    I really enjoyed reading it all and a big welcome to Jimmy Lane. The Underwraps part was really good, I enjoy hearing the thoughts behind the creations, and the class reveals were really interesting and exiting! I love how we only get tidbits of information to get an idea of the class, but in reality there's so much more we don't know and will have to wait to find out. Now to impatiently wait a month for the next newsletter.

    Keep up the good work!

    -sorte.

    • 190 posts
    June 16, 2018 7:44 AM PDT

    bryanleo9 said: This thread reminds me that VR needs to make a min/maxer server for those who have to be the best and race to end game arguing over perceved weak classes. Some of us play these games to have fun regardless of having the best in class tank or healer.

     

    This. ^

    Shadowknights in EQ2 were a broken class for the first year + of that game, and yet I fiercely adored mine and took that as a challenge to overcome. I don't like to play my characters and classes like everyone else. Cookie cutter specs makes for dull, predictive play. Let me be that weirdo with the healer who is all about the buffs, heals and diddly squat damage. Or the rogue who maximized their DPS - but only while stealthed abilities are active.

    • 39 posts
    June 16, 2018 8:27 PM PDT

    Relax on class stress. No one is gonna get a super class that can walk on water. I would hope it to stay as old school as possible. I think there is some spoilage with Alternate Advancement building super toons that can do everything. The D&D style of a hybrid is always gonna have drawbacks and they have a really good idea on how they want classes to work. Let's just play the game that's presented and keep feedback more positive tone. The staff didn't just fall off the bus from how to make a game school. I am sorry that the DL is not getting laser rifles and targeting computers (overpower joke) but just chill and wait for goodness.

     

    • 89 posts
    June 17, 2018 1:26 PM PDT

    bryanleo9 said: This thread reminds me that VR needs to make a min/maxer server for those who have to be the best and race to end game arguing over perceved weak classes. Some of us play these games to have fun regardless of having the best in class tank or healer.

     

    That actually isn't a bad idea except the wanna-be bad-a**es that aren't good enough to cut it on the min/max server will just spread their poison to other servers anyway...

     

    However, numbers can be changed so it is absolutely more important to build a class that is fun to play first...

    • 77 posts
    June 17, 2018 4:49 PM PDT

    Vash said:

     

    Relax on class stress. No one is gonna get a super class that can walk on water.

     

    Aww, I was hoping Shaman's would be able to do that; oh well, I guess turning water into mana pots will suffice.

    • 945 posts
    June 18, 2018 6:54 AM PDT

    It's perfectly acceptable to voice your opinions in these forums.  That is exactly what this is for.  Those that are comparing this MMO to WoW or "other games that have successfuly" had non-plate wearing tanks have apparently forgotten how dramatic of a difference 5-10 AC made in EQ.  This game's "current" combat mechanics appear to be very similar to EQ's.  Remember the iksar's 5 AC bonus once the velious armor race restrictions were "ALL".  As expansions come out the disparity between chain and plate will likely be exponential unless the "Heavy Mail" category is a special category for the DL and it is only marginally weaker than plate but provides more resistances or something since the rogue and ranger wear "light mail".  Every point mattered in EQ... if you weren't sitting between casts to try to get that extra 3 mana regen, over the course of a fight that could be the difference between success and failure.  When people think of the glorious accomplishments and obstacles overcame from EQ they are forgetting just how brutal it was on players that had a class that was less than desired in a group until many many expansion later.  If we can retify that before Alpha perhaps we can avoid years of heartache.  I also think people are forgetting how much time it took in EQ to play a character long enough to actually learn them and know your place in the realm... which was just long enough to finally realize that your class is really great compared to other classes or really terrible depending on your role - BUT by that point, you've invested so much of your time (and friends'/guilds') or accquired No Drop gear, that you have to keep playing that character or make new friends... 

    As to those that claim people shouldn't complain about not being the "best"... if you don't want to be the best at what you do, I question your objectives/motivations.  Even if you are a crafter, you should want to be the best that you can be.  I'm not saying that the DL should be the "best" tank, but I am definitely contesting the claim of all tanks being equal, with some being better in certain situations.  Most of my opinion is based on descriptions but some of my opinion is based on my experience with EQ since launch and I currently play on P99 both red and blue... I've also played many many other MMOs that have successfuly pulled off the non-mitigation tank, but I'm fairly certain this IS NOT going to be like those MMOs when you can accidentally "tank."  Tanks aren't made out of aluminum.  It doesn't matter how much an aluminum tank can self heal when it gets completely destroyed by machinegun fire that would have been completely stopped by steel.  And if you don't have endgame in mind, I can only assume that you plan on playing another game in a year or two after this one releases(?)  Some of us want this game to be our last game... which is why we are looking at the long term effects of choices made now (while they can still be easily changed).

    • 1479 posts
    June 18, 2018 8:12 AM PDT

    Still : a long post for only suppositions, please wait before making dire comments, and no 5 ac or a scaling difference at later xpac didn't change much, and certainly not much more than the AC cap.

    • 64 posts
    June 18, 2018 9:53 AM PDT

    LeonSanborn said:

    Exactly it's really sad to see people ******** and moaning about something that's not 100% set in stone and implemented yet and expect the Developers to play on the Die hard raiding nerd hard ons for end game raids level gameplay in pre-alpha......
    Here let me say this again for the people in the back that have a hard time reading / hearing

    PRE-ALPHA

    Yes people the game is still in PRE-ALPHA, leave the criticism at the door until you can play-test / play. The game has not even release into Alpha/Beta access yet and you're already making crappy guesses on what Tank's will be the MT and that the DireLord will be completely useless outside of solo and small groups. (not aimed at you Akailo)

    Sorry (actually, no I'm not), but some of us have been playing tank classes in MMOs for 20 years. We know what is and isn't going to work, and can determine it perfectly fine based on these descriptions. We know how groups will min/max the use of each kind of class and ability set. 

    As currently described, DLs won't be tanking anyhtign that needs to actually be tanked. 

    The fact the game is still in pre-alpha makes it precisely the time to voice these concerns. This is not the time to shut up and wait, no matter how polite the fanbois want to be.


    This post was edited by nscheffel at June 18, 2018 9:55 AM PDT
    • 22 posts
    June 18, 2018 10:30 AM PDT

    Woah keyboard warriors going hard in this post. Critism is one thing but serious talking end game content who is tanking what? LOL 

     

    Those of you on your high horses that think they know this and that, get real. The majority of us have been playing mmo’s for 20+ yrs also, your not a special snowflake. All these will it be the best at certain situations? ...... is THEORY CRAFTING over PRE-ALPHA content. I think most of you lack what even understanding goes into developmental stages, things get tweaked and changed.

    That said, I’m excited to see this creation happen, there is many different reasons everyone plays trying to please hardcore PvE and PvP oriented crowds will take time. Put away the pitchforks and enjoy what VR is trying to achieve.

    • 1479 posts
    June 18, 2018 11:22 AM PDT

    No data, no Theory Craft, and that's all. Should plate have 10% more AC than heavy mal and DL gain a 10% bonus to AC, and every high voice about the lack of resilience from the DL would just be some useless whimping as it seems.

     

    Following Dreadstar on this one : Pretty much everyone here has 20 years of MMO observation and because you choose to brake when the light are still green doesn't mean it would turn red the next second.

    • 64 posts
    June 18, 2018 11:30 AM PDT

    Comical reading fanbois predictably state "just wait and see, they know what they are doing!". When the game hits alpha you'll be saying "it's only alpha". Then when it hits beta, guess what you'll be saying? That's right..."it's only beta!".

    Your blind support isn't getting you in the game any sooner, so get off your knees and stop sucking up so hard. If you see a potential issue, spell it out.

    Voicing concerns during pre-alpha is precisely why these forums exist in pre-alpha. Based on the information we have in pre-alpha, DLs will not be MTing end game content. Obviously that can change because it's pre-alpha...which is why we are voicing these concerns...in pre-alpha.

    See? I can type "pre-alpha" over and over to support my point as well. 


    This post was edited by nscheffel at June 18, 2018 11:31 AM PDT
    • 1479 posts
    June 18, 2018 12:48 PM PDT

    nscheffel said:

    Comical reading fanbois predictably state "just wait and see, they know what they are doing!". When the game hits alpha you'll be saying "it's only alpha". Then when it hits beta, guess what you'll be saying? That's right..."it's only beta!".

    Your blind support isn't getting you in the game any sooner, so get off your knees and stop sucking up so hard. If you see a potential issue, spell it out.

    Voicing concerns during pre-alpha is precisely why these forums exist in pre-alpha. Based on the information we have in pre-alpha, DLs will not be MTing end game content. Obviously that can change because it's pre-alpha...which is why we are voicing these concerns...in pre-alpha.

    See? I can type "pre-alpha" over and over to support my point as well. 

     

    Ranting is not voicing. You got it, everyone got it. The current design can lead to disparities, good job you know how to read, I'm sure everyone is proud of you. Now if all you got when beeing discarded for repetively repeating the same obvious evidence is bringing out your voluntary bad spelled Fanboy card, man, just grow up and get some sense somehow.

    • 945 posts
    June 18, 2018 1:52 PM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    nscheffel said:

    Comical reading fanbois predictably state "just wait and see, they know what they are doing!". When the game hits alpha you'll be saying "it's only alpha". Then when it hits beta, guess what you'll be saying? That's right..."it's only beta!".

    Your blind support isn't getting you in the game any sooner, so get off your knees and stop sucking up so hard. If you see a potential issue, spell it out.

    Voicing concerns during pre-alpha is precisely why these forums exist in pre-alpha. Based on the information we have in pre-alpha, DLs will not be MTing end game content. Obviously that can change because it's pre-alpha...which is why we are voicing these concerns...in pre-alpha.

    See? I can type "pre-alpha" over and over to support my point as well. 

     

    Ranting is not voicing. You got it, everyone got it. The current design can lead to disparities, good job you know how to read, I'm sure everyone is proud of you. Now if all you got when beeing discarded for repetively repeating the same obvious evidence is bringing out your voluntary bad spelled Fanboy card, man, just grow up and get some sense somehow.

     He can rant or voice or whatever he wants.  Its a public forum and he isn't being offensive toward anyone.  And he can spell fanboi however he chooses lol.

    • 154 posts
    June 18, 2018 4:32 PM PDT

    I remember when the content and atmosphere of this forum was much better. Passion is good, but being so emotional is kind of silly, especially when I remind myself than most of you are over 25 years old. 

     

    None of the classes will be equal. It is true about the healers, DPS, and also about the tanks. Why would that be an issue? This is exactly what we want... classes that feel different, that play differently. We do not want them to be equal, we want them to be fun to play, situational, have both strenghs and weaknesses, useful in different situation, that feel powerful when played well.

    I am aware that VR said that all tanks will be viable end game. Of course they have to say that. Why would they design in purpose a class that would be bad at its role and end up being not played? that is a waste time and money. They know better.

    If played correctly, and equipped with good gear, I do believe that their statement is true. All tanks will be viable. This does not mean that all tanks will have the same amount of difficulty for the same encounter. We know that Paladin will be stronger vs Undead. Warrior might be stronger vs heavy physical burst damage, etc... VR will try their best to design the game and the bosses for all group composition. All classes have different abilities. By design and pure logic, they will not be equal. We want them to be balanced, competitive, fun. 

     

     

    • 22 posts
    June 19, 2018 4:32 AM PDT

    But... but.... we must talk about DLs having mail in 90 posts, remember it’s voicing an opinion not ranting. Just remember we already know how the end game mechanics are already playing out.... I’m fighting end game bosses as we speak. LOL... 

     

    Take a step back peoples, there is many mechanics that can change and yep I’ll say it again... in pre alpha phase going forward for tuning. They are basically slightly pass the world building phase basics, ton of work to go. People getting emotional and throwing fits before you can even log in to see for yourself to come to a conclusion or stating that you can read it says mail for armor over and over.... Sure voice an opinion saying I hope that they can tank similar to other tanks, obviously there will be radical differences. 

     

    Can’t wait for the triggered comment “but I’m in pre alpha, I know what I’m talking about” 

     

    I hope the people freaking out here will be on the PvP server, I shall drink tears. Then send a tell, but I’m in mail armor.

    • 2886 posts
    June 19, 2018 5:48 AM PDT

    I think the appropriate time to voice concerns is when you're actually in the game, testing it in real time. A lot of things are often different in practice than they are on paper. We don't even know all of the abilities yet or any of the numbers. Plus, there's a lot of other factors/mechanics that we don't know yet. I think it's awfully narrow-minded and presumptuous for one to think they know enough of the big picture to be able to definitively say "If this, then that." It is indeed absolutely important to voice concerns, and not just passively go with whatever. But imo, the best time to voice concerns is not sounding alarms right away at the first sign of danger, but once you have actually gathered enough real in-game info to be able to provide educated feedback. And in this case, that means actually being able to sit down and play a mid/high level Dire Lord in the actual game with a real group or raid. Only then will you have enough of the puzzle pieces to make an informed opinion. My guess is this would happen in Alpha, but maybe even in Pre-Alpha - who knows. Either way, that still gives us plenty of time to provide feedback and for the devs to make the necessary adjustments before launch. Not to mention the fact that things can still change after launch in a patch or expansion. But that's sometimes more difficult as there are more moving parts. So yes, giving feedback during testing phases is key, but at the same time, there is such a thing as giving too much feedback too soon. There's just no way that, no matter how loud the outcry, that the devs will change it before we even have a chance to experiment with it in in-game testing.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at June 19, 2018 6:04 AM PDT
    • 626 posts
    June 19, 2018 6:11 AM PDT

    Agreed, I believe its best to wait till you are able to test it and provide feedback then. Stating that you know for a "fact" something won't work when you don't is a bit much. I love they bring such different flavors and feelings to the game. I expect to see the same with Healers as well. 


    This post was edited by Reignborn at June 19, 2018 6:12 AM PDT