More resources would be wonderful - control by someone that cares a great deal about getting the money flow started as soon as possible and is overly optimistic about how well a launch 6 months too early will go, less wonderful.
Level 1-40 sounds reasonable. An expansion after 10 months is probably too soon, there will be so much to do working on the basic game. I am certain (perhaps wrong but quite certain) that it will be released with things to be fleshed out particularly in higher level areas that not too many people will get to very fast. Good marketing and game design to have the first area or two really done well to attract people trying the game out, at the cost of having the 30-40 areas playable but maybe not quite as polished.
Also, expansions sell best when you have a sizable pool at level-cap eager to get new content. Pantheon will have some of those, of course, but if progress is slow and there are many things to do at lower level 10 months is too fast to have that many bored level-caps.
Finally, let us not assume that to be good an expansion needs to have an increase in the maximum level. I would argue the opposite. A good expansion doesn't need that. A weak expansion does to give players a "must have" feeling even if the content is small and crappy.
Flapp said:GoofyWarriorGuy said:Why is it that people who don't actually have an answer for a question still feels the need to pop up and give a guess? Then the thread gets full of people all guessing back and forth giving their ideas and even if a real VR poster came in and gave the True answer, it would be hard to find amongst all the spam of peoples guesses.
My advice is... if you don't know the exact timeline for Alpha/Beta and/or are not authorized to give out that info at this time, it's best just to wait and see if somebody who does know and is authorized will give us a real answer.
because the community likes to speculate and have fun. if that makes you unhappy, don't read the post and don't comment on the post. take a grouchy pill and go to bed.
now, to add MY .02$
I think PRE Alpha thru 2018
Alpha ALL of 2019 and half of 2020. Beta summer 2020 with a LATE 2020 release.
I am just guessing that if Blizzard or Bethesda's would take a year to finish the game, it should take VR 2X as long since they don't have the massive team numbers of blizzard or bethesda.
Honestly, I wish one of those two would back $$$ Pantheon and give them the Money and team they need to pump this game out in 12 months. but not like Vanguard, an actual finished product.
Lev 1 to 40 to start, with a 10 level expansion 10 months after release.
Eek!! Bite your tongue!! Having Activision or ZeniMax getting their hands on Pantheon would nearly be as bad as Tencent or SOE. Both Blizzard and Bethesda have suffered in quality and ethics since the massive publishers muscled in.
The true spirit of Pantheon can really only be made in a crowd funding environment. The second the term “quarterly earnings” appear anywhere the focus changes from what is good for the game to what is good for shareholders and we lose. I would rather wait an extra year and have a smaller initial foot print than for Pantheon to make it to market shackled with the burdens of a profit focused publisher.
Trasak said:I would rather wait an extra year and have a smaller initial foot print than for Pantheon to make it to market shackled with the burdens of a profit focused publisher.
Absolutely This.
(I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is already engraved on a brass plaque on the front door of VR main offices.)
Jothany said:Trasak said:I would rather wait an extra year and have a smaller initial foot print than for Pantheon to make it to market shackled with the burdens of a profit focused publisher.
Absolutely This.
(I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is already engraved on a brass plaque on the front door of VR main offices.)
Sorry guys, wasn't trying to give you a heart attack LOL. I jus meant for financial and maybe publishing, but with Brad and VR 1 million % in control of everything, basically meant those guys would be sugar daddy's hahah
Flapp said:Sorry guys, wasn't trying to give you a heart attack LOL. I jus meant for financial and maybe publishing, but with Brad and VR 1 million % in control of everything, basically meant those guys would be sugar daddy's hahah
Oh I agree it would be great if some sugar daddy offered a big infusion of cash and wanted only the chance for a good profit if the game turns out as successfully as we all hope. I just know that money and greed being what they are in society, it's way more common for big investors to demand - or find a way to acquire - more control over the company than we'd like to give them. And THAT situation could well auger the beginning of a downward spiral into mediocracy for Pantheon.
But if you're pals with some rich guy with a 'heart of gold', then by all means call him up and chat :D
I mean really, when you think about it (or over think about it?), we owe these guys for valiantly pursueing the sort of game, the sort of experience we're all craving, to the detriment of their own potential financial gain. These fine people at VR are artists, unrelenting in their pursuit for truth of expression, and I salute them!
wizen said:I mean really, when you think about it (or over think about it?), we owe these guys for valiantly pursueing the sort of game, the sort of experience we're all craving, to the detriment of their own potential financial gain. These fine people at VR are artists, unrelenting in their pursuit for truth of expression, and I salute them!
Hear hear!
wizen said:I mean really, when you think about it (or over think about it?), we owe these guys for valiantly pursueing the sort of game, the sort of experience we're all craving, to the detriment of their own potential financial gain. These fine people at VR are artists, unrelenting in their pursuit for truth of expression, and I salute them!
Well said Wizen, from now on I will think of you as Wizen the wise.
I backed this project and still looking forward to it but have to say it's getting a bit discouraging how far this game appears to be from any sort of release. I'm all for them not rushing out an unfinished project (I was actually in early Vanguard beta and it was basically unplayable..release wasn't a lot better) but I remember when Pantheon alpha was supposed to start in 2017 and they are still in pre-alpha midway through 2018.
The streams have been cool to watch but I don't get the sense that there is remotely enough content to fill an MMO world that is passable. At this pace I'll be surprised if it releases any sooner than mid 2020 (if ever). Does this team have the funds to go that long and if not can the slow pace of development instill enough confidence in others to get more funding? I have started to worry the answer might be no.
EQBallzz said:I backed this project and still looking forward to it but have to say it's getting a bit discouraging how far this game appears to be from any sort of release. I'm all for them not rushing out an unfinished project (I was actually in early Vanguard beta and it was basically unplayable..release wasn't a lot better) but I remember when Pantheon alpha was supposed to start in 2017 and they are still in pre-alpha midway through 2018.
The streams have been cool to watch but I don't get the sense that there is remotely enough content to fill an MMO world that is passable. At this pace I'll be surprised if it releases any sooner than mid 2020 (if ever). Does this team have the funds to go that long and if not can the slow pace of development instill enough confidence in others to get more funding? I have started to worry the answer might be no.
And this is the exact reason why they should never give us updates or projected timelines. Even though they always say that it's just an estimate there are always people out there that do this.
I think it's great to have the access we do at this stage in developement. Since no one here knows anything about the internal operations these guys have it's really pointless to worry about there funding or anything else. All it does it to make the developers less likely to provide us with more information. They may have a plan to start Beta in June next year and launch in time for Christmas. If you were them would you say that to us right now? I would't even hint at it. Too many people would try to hold them to it.
These guys have given us alot of information at an early stage of developement and try to communicate as much as they can when they really shouldn't. I am glad they are so open and hope they continue to be so. A also understand if they clamp down a bit since some people really can't deal with estimated and projected timelines that can change by months or even years.
And this is the exact reason why they should never give us updates or projected timelines. Even though they always say that it's just an estimate there are always people out there that do this.
Exactly this. Doomsayers bring this stuff up now and then and nudge the narrative that the game will never be completed. If you're not careful, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If the game comes, it comes. If it doesn't, well there was nothing you were going to do or say that would have made it so. Seriously, even if these concerns were true, naysayer comments won't make that game suddenly happen. Posts offering concerns about the game's inevetability can only harm the cause.
To take a phrase from Sabot's response - "early stage of development".
After as many years as this project has been pursued still being at an "early stage of development" is what has some people concerned - not whether estimates are missed. Combined with uncertainty about how much funding is still needed and how close they are to getting it.
I am not saying the concern is justified - progress has speeded up and silence about funding is probably necessary.
>They may have a plan to start Beta in June next year and launch in time for Christmas. If you were them would you say that to us right now? I would't even hint at it. Too many people would try to hold them to it.<
I would have agreed with this a year ago - today I am not so sure. If they are off by *months* people will see that they are very close and not worry too much about what was said way back in the Summer of 2018. If they are off by *years* from what they honestly expected, they have worse problems than our disappointment.
That doesn't mean I disagree with Sabot at all I am just no longer sure. There are arguments either way.
Idk. Wow took 5 years to develop and launch. And that was with a huge company designing and backing the game.
This January with mark Pantheons 5yr anniversary and honestly, given the size of the team and the pledge to make the game the way they claim... I think a 2020 release (which would be 6 years) is perfectly acceptable.
dorotea said:To take a phrase from Sabot's response - "early stage of development".
After as many years as this project has been pursued still being at an "early stage of development" is what has some people concerned - not whether estimates are missed. Combined with uncertainty about how much funding is still needed and how close they are to getting it.
I am not saying the concern is justified - progress has speeded up and silence about funding is probably necessary.
>They may have a plan to start Beta in June next year and launch in time for Christmas. If you were them would you say that to us right now? I would't even hint at it. Too many people would try to hold them to it.<
I would have agreed with this a year ago - today I am not so sure. If they are off by *months* people will see that they are very close and not worry too much about what was said way back in the Summer of 2018. If they are off by *years* from what they honestly expected, they have worse problems than our disappointment.
That doesn't mean I disagree with Sabot at all I am just no longer sure. There are arguments either way.
I agree with this. It's not about missed predictions as much as lack of visible progress over time. Had they never made any predictions the concern would still be there IMO. Don't get me wrong I'm not down on Pantheon or predicting doom and gloom but I think at this point there is definitely cause for concern due to the serious delay in progress. I'm still hoping they succeed and manage to release a solid game eventually but I'm having some doubts.
Seeing that the more people who hear about this game, the more they want to play it. That is encouraging to me.
I just heard about this game last week and I immediately donated. So far everything I've heard or seen about this game indicates it could be my final resting place oO..Everquest meet Vanguard with updated graphics, no cash stores or pay to win. Sign me up!
Betaaaaa..... droool. ( slirp )
EQBallzz said:dorotea said:To take a phrase from Sabot's response - "early stage of development".
After as many years as this project has been pursued still being at an "early stage of development" is what has some people concerned - not whether estimates are missed. Combined with uncertainty about how much funding is still needed and how close they are to getting it.
I am not saying the concern is justified - progress has speeded up and silence about funding is probably necessary.
>They may have a plan to start Beta in June next year and launch in time for Christmas. If you were them would you say that to us right now? I would't even hint at it. Too many people would try to hold them to it.<
I would have agreed with this a year ago - today I am not so sure. If they are off by *months* people will see that they are very close and not worry too much about what was said way back in the Summer of 2018. If they are off by *years* from what they honestly expected, they have worse problems than our disappointment.
That doesn't mean I disagree with Sabot at all I am just no longer sure. There are arguments either way.
I agree with this. It's not about missed predictions as much as lack of visible progress over time. Had they never made any predictions the concern would still be there IMO. Don't get me wrong I'm not down on Pantheon or predicting doom and gloom but I think at this point there is definitely cause for concern due to the serious delay in progress. I'm still hoping they succeed and manage to release a solid game eventually but I'm having some doubts.
https://venturebeat.com/2015/09/28/everquest-creator-raises-seed-round-to-build-pantheon-rise-of-the-fallen/ in 2015 they had "10 playable levels" according to this article. Where do they stand now how many playable levels are there?
I'm pretty sure the game has been revamped somehow around 2016, I guess thoses 10 playable levels have been under a complete revamp.
Flapp said:Sorry guys, wasn't trying to give you a heart attack LOL. I jus meant for financial and maybe publishing, but with Brad and VR 1 million % in control of everything, basically meant those guys would be sugar daddy's hahah
Sadly publishing deals are seldom that cut and dry. They give that money with the expectation of a substantial return and at times it can also require the creatorrs to give up the license to their work. Which means at any given moment post launch they could pull the rug out and replace the leadership to implement a new vision and business model.
Publishing deals can be both a blessing and a curse. It really depends on the publisher, the deal, and the circumstrance.
Well if past history is any indicator then the stuggles that both EQ1 and Vanguard had would be a huge neon warning sign.
But sometimes that is the nature of the game industry.
Sometimes you just have to wipe away months of work to fix some underlying foundation that was flawed or had something you need to back out. Maybe jumping to a newer release of a game engine requires editing and testing a ton of code segments.
But overall the game industry is very healthy. The big game studios are making money hand over fist. And as tech spreads out across the globe in many forms of medium to more and more people, the playing base of gamers continues to increase. So I am sure VR will be able to limp ahead, somehow.
Bottom line for me, I expect issues, problems, delays, disappointments. But I also know I played EQ1 and Vanguard more than any other games of it's nature. And I found all other knockoffs (WoW) lacking. So for me there is no alternative.
zewtastic said:Well if past history is any indicator then the stuggles that both EQ1 and Vanguard had would be a huge neon warning sign.
But sometimes that is the nature of the game industry.
Sometimes you just have to wipe away months of work to fix some underlying foundation that was flawed or had something you need to back out. Maybe jumping to a newer release of a game engine requires editing and testing a ton of code segments.
But overall the game industry is very healthy. The big game studios are making money hand over fist. And as tech spreads out across the globe in many forms of medium to more and more people, the playing base of gamers continues to increase. So I am sure VR will be able to limp ahead, somehow.
Bottom line for me, I expect issues, problems, delays, disappointments. But I also know I played EQ1 and Vanguard more than any other games of it's nature. And I found all other knockoffs (WoW) lacking. So for me there is no alternative.
I agree with that final statement. There really is no alternative but that is rather depressing and why for me the MMO genre is basically flat-lining/dead. Maybe Pantheon will be that spark of defibrillation to surge new life into this bloated, greedy corpse but if Pantheon doesn't realease or release as a solid game I think the MMO genre is officially dead as we knew it. It will remain a genre that is filled with shallow, dull, repetitive gameplay that is polluted with and driven by P2W, loot boxes and similar garbage.
EQBallzz said:I agree with that final statement. There really is no alternative but that is rather depressing and why for me the MMO genre is basically flat-lining/dead. Maybe Pantheon will be that spark of defibrillation to surge new life into this bloated, greedy corpse but if Pantheon doesn't realease or release as a solid game I think the MMO genre is officially dead as we knew it.
This is so true. If pantheon doesnt work out. I cant see myself playing another mmo. Maybe fool around on WoW classic. But I cant foresee a game coming out that's going to drastically change anything like pantheon is trying to do.