Good afternoon,
I haven’t seen this discussed on other threads beyond the ancillary comment here and there. It would be really excellent if someone from the dev team could weigh in about how much effort is going into initial optimization and whether or not there is any plan to incorporate direct support/integration for SLI and dedicated PhysX.
I have watched several of the showcase streams via Twitch and Youtube, and the game looks fantastic! My concern, and that of others as well; even a really great game has little chance of surviving in this current climate if it’s not playable. I think the gaming community as a whole has come to terms with the idea that initial launch of a new IPO/title will have some degree of dev ops and technical hurdles to overcome, however a really well optimized and playable in-game experience would go a long way to gaining some equity amongst your groundswell of support and those that are waiting in the shadows to try and tear you down. Short notice downtimes, emergency patching, all an acceptable part of the process at this point, but mix that with a poor in-game user experience, and it becomes a serious issue of short term customer retention. I can tell you from my own personal experience, I struggle when I can only squeeze 50-60 FPS using an SLi GPU setup, knowing full well that it’s an optimization issue and not the hardware in my rig. To me, this is strictly a customer experience issue, and something many developers overlook (or outright choose to ignore) as critical to the success of the product.
Thank you for everything, and I can’t wait to see the world of Pantheon for myself!
From Kilsin:
"We do plan on supporting SLI and Crossfire, but we will just have to wait and see how Unity handles their DX 12 implementation and changes along the way as that is out of our hands."
Source: http://pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2309/sli-support
I'm interested in how multicore and threading will play out. Here is an interesting article about Unity 2018.1 multicore bit-tech.net
They won't make the same mistake that happened with vanguard. Pantheon will be playable on a machine with medium/low specs.
I believe Brad made a comment a year or 2 ago that he was running a gtx 950 on purpose to make sure the game is playable with outdated equipment.
philo said:They won't make the same mistake that happened with vanguard. Pantheon will be playable on a machine with medium/low specs.
I believe Brad made a comment a year or 2 ago that he was running a gtx 950 on purpose to make sure the game is playable with outdated equipment.
Exactly. This really is the bigger issue at hand and, as Flapp mentioned, it's so important that Brad talks about it frequently:
"Pantheon is going to be a great looking game, but it is not going to be pushing graphics to the bleeding edge. One of several mistakes made with Vanguard was trying to be on the bleeding edge -- then, when circumstances forced the game to be launched early, we didn't have time to optimize and the system requirements we're ludicrously high. Most people who quit quit before level 2 -- they didn't even have time to decide whether they liked the game or not -- they just simply couldn't play because their systems couldn't handle it. We will *NOT* make that mistake again.
We also optimize every internal milestone (and sometimes even more frequently). We're not pushing off optmization to the end like I've seen in so many projects."
Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2469/system-requirements
"The machine I currently program the game with and playtest the game with I bought for around $1k, and that was well over a year ago: i5-4400 3.10 ghz 16 gigs 800mhz DDR3 (I think 8 gigs will be fine -- 16 gigs is better for me running all of the tools, Unity, Visual Studio, SQL manager, etc.) GTX 960 with 2 gigs video ram. I also have another, older machine with a 750TI. Both of these machines run our current build at 30+ FPS."
Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2169/guesstimated-recommended-system-requirements
Bazgrim said:philo said:They won't make the same mistake that happened with vanguard. Pantheon will be playable on a machine with medium/low specs.
I believe Brad made a comment a year or 2 ago that he was running a gtx 950 on purpose to make sure the game is playable with outdated equipment.
Exactly. This really is the bigger issue at hand and, as Flapp mentioned, it's so important that Brad talks about it frequently:
"Pantheon is going to be a great looking game, but it is not going to be pushing graphics to the bleeding edge. One of several mistakes made with Vanguard was trying to be on the bleeding edge -- then, when circumstances forced the game to be launched early, we didn't have time to optimize and the system requirements we're ludicrously high. Most people who quit quit before level 2 -- they didn't even have time to decide whether they liked the game or not -- they just simply couldn't play because their systems couldn't handle it. We will *NOT* make that mistake again.
We also optimize every internal milestone (and sometimes even more frequently). We're not pushing off optmization to the end like I've seen in so many projects."
Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2469/system-requirements
"The machine I currently program the game with and playtest the game with I bought for around $1k, and that was well over a year ago: i5-4400 3.10 ghz 16 gigs 800mhz DDR3 (I think 8 gigs will be fine -- 16 gigs is better for me running all of the tools, Unity, Visual Studio, SQL manager, etc.) GTX 960 with 2 gigs video ram. I also have another, older machine with a 750TI. Both of these machines run our current build at 30+ FPS."
Source: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2169/guesstimated-recommended-system-requirements
I agree that the gamee shouldn't be engineered specifically for "bleeding edge spec". Not everyone can dump a crapload of money into a system like I can.
That being said, it COULD support both nominal and ultra-powerful systems, being based on the Unity engine. SLI isn't exactly "bleeding edge". Neither is Crossfire. Both techniologies, while not commonly used by anyone other than your avid gamer, have been around for over a decade now.
In my opinion, they shold try to cater to both, with the preference towards mid-range if they are unable to cater towards both. I wouldn't want to see "your average Joe" locked out because it requires a crazy system.
Under no circumstances would I build a PC assuming a game will support SLI. I have seen several games not support SLI, promise to add SLI support in the future, and either never actually support it, or support it poorly.
Unless you are willing to spend $2000+ on your PC, just get the best single GPU you can afford. That advice holds true for all gaming machines.
I recognize the correctness of the posts about the necessity of avoiding bleeding edge, which as Kalok stated is not what SLI or Crossfire are any more.
However; I am what is often referred to a PC elitist and despise those lil square contraptions that are obsolete the day before they are released to the public (obsolete = mid range computer found on Best Buy shelves 3-5 years ago). Yes, I am referring to consoles. I expect superior graphics options that can clearly be visible to everyone when compared to any console game. I do not wish to see this game optimized for some kid playing on grandmas 486 Evergreen. Just saying there has to be a lower threshold limit as well as the stated upper thershold limit.
Personally I think SLI is a waste of money. if you can afford Two $400 1070's, just get an $699 1080Ti instead. it will run 4K @ 60FPS. Pantheon is not an RPG shooter, you don't need 144 FPS for an MMO. But, that said: spend money however you wanna spend it. I just personally don't need two $400-$900 cards.
Pantheon is going to be beautiful at 4K/60 I hope they add LOADS of "just because it's beautiful" so that those of us that want to, can run Ultra settings. Games like GW2 and ESO added loads of "pretty" that can be turned off with settings incase someone is trying to run the game on a two-slice toaster or a Ti-99
This game might be 6 months away, it might be 2 years away, Brad won't tell us: I will build a new system a week before Pantheon goes live. I might have an nVidia 1280Ti 16GB card that will run 4K/120hz.
Flapp said:Personally I think SLI is a waste of money. if you can afford Two $400 1070's, just get an $699 1080Ti instead. it will run 4K @ 60FPS. Pantheon is not an RPG shooter, you don't need 144 FPS for an MMO. But, that said: spend money however you wanna spend it. I just personally don't need two $400-$900 cards.
Pantheon is going to be beautiful at 4K/60 I hope they add LOADS of "just because it's beautiful" so that those of us that want to, can run Ultra settings. Games like GW2 and ESO added loads of "pretty" that can be turned off with settings incase someone is trying to run the game on a two-slice toaster or a Ti-99
This game might be 6 months away, it might be 2 years away, Brad won't tell us: I will build a new system a week before Pantheon goes live. I might have an nVidia 1280Ti 16GB card that will run 4K/120hz.
Part of that depends on how much runs from client-side vs server-side. Given that it is using the Unity engine, the graphics could, in theory, benefit to a certain degree from SLI or Crossfire depending on how it is coded. That being said, I'd have to agree that 4k@60 should be "all anyone needs" at least for now....heehehe
In all honesty tho..... If you are worried about graphic limits and how far you can push them. This probably isnt going to be the game for you. You are going to want a game that is pushing the envelop of development in this area. But even those games are going to want to optimize graphics so that a wider audience can play the game. The Elitist Catch 22. This game is more about COMMUNITY so they are going to push the envelop down to see how far they can optimize the game so that people with limited funds can experience the same game that high end gaming computer enthusiasts can (within reason). Obviously super old chipsets will be turned off. Along with some antiquated OS's. I have a cheapo acer computer that i run window's 7 starter edition on and if that thing runs Pantheon i would be amazed. Seriously. Im assuming that my crappy AMD A8 and 8gb ram running windows 10 main laptop will be able to handle this game. It better be able to otherwise im out like a trout. lol
kreed99 said:In all honesty tho..... If you are worried about graphic limits and how far you can push them. This probably isnt going to be the game for you. You are going to want a game that is pushing the envelop of development in this area. But even those games are going to want to optimize graphics so that a wider audience can play the game. The Elitist Catch 22. This game is more about COMMUNITY so they are going to push the envelop down to see how far they can optimize the game so that people with limited funds can experience the same game that high end gaming computer enthusiasts can (within reason). Obviously super old chipsets will be turned off. Along with some antiquated OS's. I have a cheapo acer computer that i run window's 7 starter edition on and if that thing runs Pantheon i would be amazed. Seriously. Im assuming that my crappy AMD A8 and 8gb ram running windows 10 main laptop will be able to handle this game. It better be able to otherwise im out like a trout. lol
I completely agree. Even back in its day, EQ wasn't 110% bleeding edge. Vanguard was alot closer, but it caused alot of issues for alot of people because of that. I have a monster system that I built about this time last year that I will be upgrading at least once by the time Pantheon is released, but then I didn't JUST build it for Pantheon. I also play Prey and the latest Doom on it.
Since switching over to 4K a couple years ago, thats all I care about any more. But sure takes a lot of work to get it just right.
<4K snobbery />
If your video card has the guts to handle it, it's a crime to not be running 4K. Pick up a Samsung 40" 4K tv for a trial run. I'd post pictures but if you do not have the 4K monitor to view it with, the impact would be lost.