Forums » Pantheon Races

Swords, Sorcery and….Aliens!?

    • 29 posts
    April 30, 2018 8:53 AM PDT

      

    - EDIT -

    Read on, but be aware that I have learned new information and have since changed my position on The Alien Theory. -

    I was wrong (I think), there are no aliens (I think). /em glances side-long at Agents Mulder and Scully

    The truth is, I am not sure what the truth is.

    Was it?:

    a) Aliens Flying Through Outer Space

    b) Gods Teleporting Races

    c) Planets Literally Colliding 

    - END EDIT - 

    ----------------------------

    Aliens…

    For some reason I have only just come around to the reading of all of the available lore, indeed I am newly pledged.

    So far I love everything that this team has created in Pantheon, and even in their past games.

    The one thing I keep trying to wrap my head around is Aliens. With at least 3 of the races being from planets alien to the human home-world (Terminus), this game is starting to feel more like a Sci-Fi game than High Fantasy. Will there be spaceships and laser guns? (I joke).

    But really, all of that space travel will need to be technologically and culturally represented in the game somehow. So at some point the fictional genre of Pantheon’s marketing may need to be reconsidered. I had no idea it was so much about aliens, until I really started reading the lore.  

    Anyway, I mean no offence, it is all highly creative and technically excellent from a linguistic point of view, but I have to admit… the xeno thematic trend is slowly turning me off. I am still interested, but honestly, why do so many of the races need to be from other planets? Most of their back stories could have been just as easily fit into Terminus, and still allowed for the same depth and breadth of epic story telling.

    I guess I am just an 'OG' fantasy head.

    Keep up the good work!

    P.S. "The truth is out there…" ;)


    This post was edited by Finbar at May 1, 2018 8:44 AM PDT
    • 1317 posts
    April 30, 2018 9:09 AM PDT

    The "travel" from other planets was more magic based, or power from the gods (thus the Pantheon name), more than technologically based. 

    I hadn't even thought of spaceships when reading through the lore.  It seems like it is just a way to describe an origin story for each race that allows them to come together in one place.

    Now that I think about it I guess we did travel to outer space in EQ and I never considered spaceships there either ( moon of Luclin for example).  Maybe I took for granted that the travel was always magic based?  It just seemed like it fit in a magic based universe.

    • 29 posts
    April 30, 2018 9:32 AM PDT

     Yeah. 

    Well with regard to the mode of transport it is pretty ambiguous in language. Regarding the Gnomes it says they were "deposited on Terminus" for instance. I read it to mean the castle literally floated through space from one star to another. Regardless of travel method, it is clear that many of these races are from alien planets (and so are aliens). 

    As for Luclin and EQ, yes. I recall this and even then I tried to ignore it. The whole Luclin thing for me was always a hard pill to swallow. For me Luclin was the beginning of the end for EQ. I know there were other references earlier in the lore, but they were pretty passive and really easy to write off as the ravings of the mad. Not to be overly argumentitive (because that is certainly not my intent), but I guess also it goes without saying that Pantheon and EQ are clearly distinct IP. 

    I am a very aesthetic person, and while I love high fantasy and magic, there is kind of a breaking point where physics simply must come into play. I know, I know, I know it is irrational to be okay with magic, but not be okay with tossing physics entirely out the window… but that is just how I like my fantasy. I read Hard Sci-Fi and High Fantasy separately, and “ne’er the twain shall meet”! :) 

    Don't get me wrong, I am still a huge fan of this project and will keep supporting it and boosting it all that I can. I am just providing my own feedback on my own personal preferences. 


    This post was edited by Finbar at April 30, 2018 9:40 AM PDT
    • 1615 posts
    April 30, 2018 9:46 AM PDT

    Finbar said:

     Yeah. 

    Well with regard to the mode of transport it is pretty ambiguous in language. Regarding the Gnomes it says they were "deposited on Terminus" for instance. I read it to mean the castle literally floated through space from one star to another. Regardless of travel method, it is clear that many of these races are from alien planets (and so are aliens). 

    As for Luclin and EQ, yes. I recall this and even then I tried to ignore it. The whole Luclin thing for me was always a hard pill to swallow. For me Luclin was the beginning of the end for EQ. I am a very aesthetic person, and while I love high fantasy and magic, there is kind of a breaking point where physic simply must come into play. I know, I know, I know it is irrational to be okay with magic, but not be okay with tossing physics entirely out the window… but that is just how I like my fantasy. I read Hard Sci-Fi and High Fantasy separately, and “ne’er the twain shall meet”! :) 

    Don't get me wrong, I am still a huge fan of this project and will keep supporting it and boosting it all that I can. I am just providing my own feedback on my own personal preferences. 

     

    I think it was stated somewhere that very few of native terminus races remains, maybe the one the skarr enslaved was amongst thoses, and since Ogres conquered most of Reignfall during their apogee, I guess they probably eradicated a few species. Every playable race, even the Ginto/Revenant/Remnant (that aren't playable) are foreigners.

     

     

    I won't share your opinions about luclin, simply because I found Luclin to be a fantastic xpac on the Landscape side, and the story with the combine empire, Lord Seru and the poisoning was great. Some areas like the Twillight Sea were to me amongst the most beautifull places I visited in EQ, and I was paying a visiting trip every few days travelling alone with my rogue just for the sky and ambient. The grey was also an extremely interesting type of zone, but I agree some places were out of sense (Grimmlings, vampires .. ?) and some didn't really fit except to fill areas. The game also became too easy with a special mension to the bandits outside of shadow haven were really too juicy and fast exp, making it a quick hub soloable by most classes to avoid all the old and rich zones the classic world had. A lot of zones were also empty, due to too hard mobs or too low exp bonus, like the Scarlet Desert.

    Still, I loved Shar Vahl and the Vah shir, and loved the fact that the expansion brought content for all level range, despite them beeing completely trivializing EXP at some specific ranges.

     

    On the other hand, Velious was so much raid focused you barely had anything to do with a small and ungeared group, mobs hitting like trucks, mobs in pre raid areas, everything was too much built around "Top end players of Kunark".

    • 29 posts
    April 30, 2018 9:52 AM PDT

    Hi Mauvais. 

    Not to derail the discussion about the Aliens in Pantheon, but: 

    I agree. There were certainly many excellent things about Luclin (as you noted). It was the general setting (on the moon) that turned me off, not the game play mechanics or level design. 

    As for the background on the older races of Terminus and where they are now, I look forward to reading and learning more about the lore. 

    I am a lore junky! And can't wait for more from the Pantheon team. 

    With that said, I also hope nothing is beyond reproach, and hopefully even the lore can be reconsidered as needed. 

    Cheers! 

    • 1317 posts
    April 30, 2018 9:57 AM PDT

    The gnomes themselves have become purely arcane beings.  Anything to do with them after their transformation is strictly magical.  These are not tinkering/mechanical/technologically advanced gnomes from other games.

    I like to think of them as more of a wisp.  A ball of arcane energy that has adapted to wear armor.  Kind of strange, but I think this type of confusion will be common with these new gnomes.  They stray so far from what most of us think of as a gnome.

    • 4319 posts
    April 30, 2018 10:17 AM PDT

    For one thing, it's kind of an ingenious premise though because it allows them to easily add more races in future expansions without screwing up the overarching story - just collide another planet. But the tricky thing about game lore is that you can't tell the whole story upfront, or else there would be no point in actually playing the game to find the answers. Istuulamae has intentionally left a big mystery (among others): why do these planets keep colliding? We will have to dig through Terminus ourselves to figure out why. I think their reason for this decision will become more clear as we unearth more details. :)

     

    • 29 posts
    April 30, 2018 11:15 AM PDT

    - EDIT - 

    This may not be true, I don't know anymore. But for certain it did not happen in "ancient of ancient times, before the forming of the world itself" as I stated below. Unless you think 300 years counts as such. 

    - END EDIT - 

    Going back for a second deeper read, I see that the specifics of the arrival on Terminus are really and truly vague (intentionally so). And the level of godly magic at play is truly on a cosmically epic scale.

    I was off mark to assume, simple aliens in starships. The story of these migrations to Terminus is not one of current times, it is set in the ancient of ancient times, before the forming of the world itself (as it is now) it seems.

    I misunderstood because I read first the story of the races, prior to reading the story of the world.

    It would be my recommendation to not use the words “planet of X” in the racial descriptions, because it leads one to think of aliens (clearly). Perhaps, carry that same vague cosmic level magic (as represented in the world setting) over to the race descriptions. Because the way some of the origin stories read, you would think this is all happening in the immediate sense through some kind physical means – see: Skyhold (as opposed to say gods just relocating races to meet their own needs).

    The difference may seem minute to some, but to me it was the difference between USS Skyhold (the gnomish enterprise space ship), and a god clapping their hands and boom! Gnomes traveled a million AU across the hyper-verse (which is a far cry more palatable to me).


    This post was edited by Finbar at May 1, 2018 8:54 AM PDT
    • 1615 posts
    April 30, 2018 12:19 PM PDT

    Finbar said:

     

    Going back for a second deeper read, I see that the specifics of the arrival on Terminus are really and truly vague (intentionally so). And the level of godly magic at play is truly on a cosmically epic scale.

    I was off mark to assume, simple aliens in starships. The story of these migrations to Terminus is not one of current times, it is set in the ancient of ancient times, before the forming of the world itself (as it is now) it seems.

    I misunderstood because I read first the story of the races, prior to reading the story of the world.

    It would be my recommendation to not use the words “planet of X” in the racial descriptions, because it leads one to think of aliens (clearly). Perhaps, carry that same vague cosmic level magic (as represented in the world setting) over to the race descriptions. Because the way some of the origin stories read, you would think this is all happening in the immediate sense through some kind physical means – see: Skyhold (as opposed to say gods just relocating races to meet their own needs).

    The difference may seem minute to some, but to me it was the difference between USS Skyhold (the gnomish enterprise space ship), and a god clapping their hands and boom! Gnomes traveled a million AU across the hyper-verse (which is a far cry more palatable to me).

     

    I call them planes, it's more lore fantasy fitting to me.

     

    However to me, the reason of collision is one thing, but I'm more curious about the implication of the Dragons in that. The dragon accord specifies the ownship of Terminus to the dragon, especially Rok'Nhilthamos (I had to copy paste his name), and the Celestial Boundaries ensure that no exterior high power can threaten the rule of the dragon, by stipulating gods have no mean to communicate or act over their mortal followers, unless they accept descension that will put them in the high mortal state, yet un-ageing but vulnerable to death (like we could read about Syronai, Ossa or even the Ravaging Lord himself). This opened weakness seems to be a willfull mean to force gods to leave the ownership of Terminus to the dragons, and if they want the power to change things, they end up beeing vulnerable to the dragons themselves.

    I don't think there is any hazard here, and the reason terminus is vacuuming other planes is surely tied to the unknown force that wrote thoses rules, and the dragons seems to have accepted a deal here to be unmatched rulers but accept their world is inhabited by colons.

    Why would this entity "need" or "favor" the collisions, is still a mystery for now, but I hope to get the final word on this one time or another.

    • 29 posts
    May 1, 2018 6:39 AM PDT

    Agreed! I muchly prefer the term planes over planets in this regard. 

    There was a note that said the dragons may return at some unknown point. I have to wonder if this has anything to do with this sort of Planer Conjunction


    This post was edited by Finbar at May 1, 2018 7:12 AM PDT
    • 1615 posts
    May 1, 2018 7:12 AM PDT

    Finbar said:

    Agreed! I muchly prefer the term planes over planets in this regard. 

    There was a note that said the dragons may return at some unknown point, I wonder if this has anything to do with this sort of Planer Conjunction? 

     

    The dragons have not left, they just watch their realms from afar. They reappared during the great war with the Ravaging lord, and he even killed one of them that was strictly affirming ownership of the land. That's when Rok'Nhilthamos (Copy paste again) showed up descending from the sky and he obliterated the Ravaging lord, only beeing stopped from annihilating the 6 sacred races by an unknown silhouette, mensionning the deal was not yet broken.

     

    Since the dragons were told as two "types", from the air and from the sea, I suspect they do not actually live on ground level, except from outcasts (Tel N'harssis for example), and remain out of mortal reach : Deep in the seas or high in the skies (PoSky island like ?).  Rok'Nhilthamos himself descended from the cloudy sky, and since he was born an air Dragon, it is possible his original kingdom lies in the upper sky.

    TL:DR I think the dragons are still watching from high or down above, and only appear or mannifest themselves when their rule is threatened somehow.

    • 29 posts
    May 1, 2018 7:16 AM PDT

    Multi-day raid on Rok'Nhilthamos (Copy paste again) anyone? 

    • 1615 posts
    May 1, 2018 7:23 AM PDT

    He seems quite the "World Boss" for now. Blasting the ravaging lord in a single breath while war was raging for long, and even war wizards got slain in that conflict, indicates much more than a sole trash boss, but Kerafyrm's level.

     

    Edit : Quoting this from the lore

    Suddenly the earth shook, and one side of the volcano burst forth in thunder and spray. Out from the rupture flew Rhy’Kafiros, the Reignborn dragon whose dominion was over this very continent.

    They seem to live in a lot of different areas, finally, including inside volcanoes. But I'm not sure any encountered dragon would be a smart kill, as it seems to trigger the biggest of all.


    This post was edited by MauvaisOeil at May 1, 2018 7:27 AM PDT
    • 29 posts
    May 1, 2018 8:46 AM PDT

    Colour Me Confused:

    When I first read the lore I assumed that most of the races were aliens landing in ships. Then I assumed they were all teleported here by gods in ancient antiquity. And NOW (from reading other posts) I think I understand that planets literally collided and somehow everyone survived. Suffice it to say, I am confused. Can someone clear this up for me?

    - Edit -

    Maybe this is what 'pre-alpha lore' feels like. ;) 

    I only ask these questions because I care, and I want this thing to fly! 

    - End Edit - 


    This post was edited by Finbar at May 1, 2018 9:03 AM PDT
    • 4319 posts
    May 1, 2018 9:23 AM PDT

    There are "fragments" of other worlds combined into an amalgamation that makes up Terminus. Brad and Joppa have mentioned how the ecology of Terminus doesn't always have to "make sense" according to Earth rules because it is a hodgepodge of different planets. So for example, there could theoretically be a frozen ecosystem not far from a molten lava ecosystem because that's just how they collided. Now whether these fragments literally, physically collided or whether entire portions of the actual planets have been magically teleported in (kinda like what happened in Obduction) along with the races is unknown, at least to me - maybe a little of both? I think it's an overgeneralization to call them aliens though. Maybe in the truest sense of the word ("a foreigner, especially one who is not a naturalized citizen of the country where they are living"), but it doesn't have to be the sci-fi way Holywood typically portrays them. I'm sure Istuulamae would be pleased to see you asking such questions. I think you're asking all the right questions. And I also think you intentionally won't get answers to all of them until you can explore the lore for yourself in-game :)


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at May 1, 2018 9:29 AM PDT
    • 2439 posts
    May 1, 2018 8:28 PM PDT

    As far as I understand it/my theory:

     

    The "collisions" of other worlds/races upon Terminus may or may not include various parts of the worlds the races came from. It would seem to me as though there are at least a few layers in the hierarchy of beings: the mortals, the various gods of different pantheons, and some kind of powers/beings beyond the gods. From what I can put together it would seem the gods of the races brought to Terminus were fleeing some kind of destructive entity beyond their capability to combat, possibly instructed to flee to Terminus in particular by a higher power than themselves. 

     

    An agreement was made between some unknown entity (seemingly of higher power than the gods) and the Dragon King (The Dragon Accord/Celestial Boundary) to allow the various gods to deposit their creations upon Terminus, which included the limitation of influence for the gods possibly so they would not war with one another or attempt to gain power over the world. For a time the only way for any of the gods to take part in the world of Terminus seems to have been to give up their power to live as a "High Mortal" but since the Deicide War the Dragon Accord/Celestial Boundary seems to have been strengthened so that even that possibiliy no longer exists.

     

    It would seem to me that the main goal in Pantheon will be trying to both find the sole copy of the Dragon Accord and to get a dragon to decipher the writings so that the races can understand what exactly is going on; to find out where their gods have gone and why they were brought to Terminus.

    • 820 posts
    May 4, 2018 4:51 PM PDT

    Finbar said:

    The difference may seem minute to some, but to me it was the difference between USS Skyhold (the gnomish enterprise space ship), and a god clapping their hands and boom! Gnomes traveled a million AU across the hyper-verse (which is a far cry more palatable to me).

    I really have nothing of substance to offer. Just .... 

    USS Skyhold. 

    Ha!


    This post was edited by Tralyan at May 4, 2018 4:52 PM PDT