Some of my fondest memories in Everquest came from the use of fun spells.
These were spells that didn't really have a lot of combat value, but they added flavor to the game as well as, in some cases, giving your team an out of combat type buff.
Some examples like minor illusion with the enchanters where you could turn yourself into a random piece of furniture. I don't know how many times we had fun confusing new players by having a lamp post in the room start talking to them. Other silly ones were ventriloquism with the Necromancers where you could park your pet somewhere, use ventriloquism and talk to random people who walked past. Seeing a friend Spectre in the middle of East Commonlands was quite funny.
And of course there were silly bardsongs as well like Melanie's Mellifluous Motion which seriously confused people.
Also having a druid turn everyone into wolves as part of their group run-speed buff was a great flavor added to that spell, and it was often used as part of roleplaying or just goofing around during downtime (e.g. while on the boat, while waiting to get a group or while everyone was recovering mana and health after a big fight).
Other silly things like levitation which, for some reason, you rarely see in games anymore. I remember fondly when friend who was a mage cast levitation on himself then ran out over the water and sat above the waves when he was fishing. Seeing a robed person, floating above the water and fishing, was such an amazing moment which really brought home the feeling of being in a world of magic. Right up to the point where another friend cast "Cancel Magic" on said mage, which removed his Levitation and PLOP! into the water he went. And how we laughed :) That was 12 years ago, and I remember it fondly to this very day.
I know some will say this could lead to trolling. However, I would disagree and rather say that this would help create memories and it would let you play some pranks on your friends now and then. In my book, playing some pranks isn't trolling. They don't disrupt the gameplay and anyone can walk away from the talking lamp post.
So that brings me to the question in the topic.
Will we have fun spells like these in Pantheon as well? (that is, non-combat spells more aimed at fun and giving the game flavor)
I don't disagree at all - but what a friend may consider a prank a stranger might consider a real annoyance. If there are spells that can affect other players like this there should be an option to be immune to them. Just as many games have options to automatically decline duels. guild invitations, marraige proposals, and the like.
Non combat little things can really make a game more fun and memorable (give us collectibles please even if getting a set or many sets completed gives no reward other than maybe a title).
dorotea said:If there are spells that can affect other players like this there should be an option to be immune to them. Just as many games have options to automatically decline duels. guild invitations, marraige proposals, and the like.
Non combat little things can really make a game more fun and memorable (give us collectibles please even if getting a set or many sets completed gives no reward other than maybe a title).
Most of the EQ spells were group oriented.
Obviously some of them, like minor illusion and ventriloquism aren't really targeting anyone. Those are just for show and for chat and doesn't affect anyone.
As an enchanter for instance it would be fun if I had a spell where I could use illusions on others too, e.g. turn them into a different race for a short time or dress them up in some comedic clothes. Small things like that.
I'm really hoping they'll leave room for these things and not focus only on combat and such. After all, for the world to feel magic and interesting it's the little things that add flavor to it that makes it wholesome.
Good call, I also hope it won't be like "EQ2's fluff spells" where everyone had some every 10 levels or so, spreading illusions between corcer/chanters and troubadours/dirge, and giving fluffs nonsenses to every non magical class.
If melees are to have some fluff, at least make it combat stances and animations tied.
One of my favorite role playing moments was in EQ2 as a coercer. There was a zone that had attackable stone walls that you could attack, and they were used to hone in your dps output. As a coercer I could charm the wall and then use another spell to enlarge it so that it was gigantic, and then put it in the middle of a path, and ask advernturers to pay a toll to get past. I even had a macro used for my speech with a /beg command. Silly things like that really add another level to mmo's.
Well, most of the spells the above mentions from EQ were mostly group oriented, like someone not in your group couldn't invis you, or give you an illusion or anything like that. Levitate was a buff that everyone welcomed tho, so it was never forced to be grouped. I think the druids wolf form was a group buff too.
However, the spells that someone could cast on you, if you didn't want a levitate, just had to click it off. Nobody ever sat there and constantly levitated someone that didn't want it, at least not on my server lol.
But these spells gave the game a killer side effect, and made the magical world even more magical. It was fun to use some of them, especially levitate, just find a high spot and float off it literally dodging every mob if you did it right. Of course you slowly came down but it was also fun to look below and see everything you were passing. It definitely was a great game with all the fluffs it had.
Dubah said:Well, most of the spells the above mentions from EQ were mostly group oriented, like someone not in your group couldn't invis you, or give you an illusion or anything like that. Levitate was a buff that everyone welcomed tho, so it was never forced to be grouped. I think the druids wolf form was a group buff too.
However, the spells that someone could cast on you, if you didn't want a levitate, just had to click it off. Nobody ever sat there and constantly levitated someone that didn't want it, at least not on my server lol.
But these spells gave the game a killer side effect, and made the magical world even more magical. It was fun to use some of them, especially levitate, just find a high spot and float off it literally dodging every mob if you did it right. Of course you slowly came down but it was also fun to look below and see everything you were passing. It definitely was a great game with all the fluffs it had.
Druids could cast regular speed buff (Spirit of the Wolf, or short SOW) on anyone. This buff came without illusions. Later they got a personal wolf-illusion spell which transformed the druid into a wolf and also gave them the run-buff. Later still you got a group buff which put the wolf illusion on the entire group (Spirit of the Pack I think it was called, but was just referred to as group-SOW). You could, if I remember, use a chat command or options thing to never show illusions, e.g. if you didn't want to be a wolf).
I also remember a situation we had where a friend who had played only a dark elf Cleric her whole EQ "life" had group-SOW cast on her. She thought her monitor had broken because everything looked yellow. Turned out she had become so used to the Dark Elf darkvision (which made things seem blue'ish) that when she got group-SOW and the same vision as a wolf (which was basically just normal vision) it seemed to her like her monitor broke :D Pretty funny stuff when she panicked until we figured out what it was.
Also, you could always remove buffs as you mentioned. You just clicked them away, whether it was stat buffs, illusions, levitate, run speed et.c. Obviously you couldn't click off debuffs, but there was Cancel Magic spells for that.
I really do hope more people want fun and fluff spells though. They really did make Everquest a more wholesome game and there were so many creative uses for them that people came up with. E.g. as mentioned using levitate to sit above the water while fishing, or using minor illusions to prank someone. Since Pantheon is also going for the "crawl around dungeon" and "pull to a camp" approach instead of the themepark "start at point A, run through dungeon and kill boss then finished" it would help a lot to have some silly spells to pull out to lighten the mood when you've been killing mobs for 5 hours straight.
Maybe some melee classes could have an ability to build a campfire to make it more cozy (sort of useless, but fun and something to gather around), or able to pull out and instrument and play some simple notes, or use an illusion so an area looks like a small grove, a living room or something silly like that instead of it looking like a dank dungeon.
I'm just brainstorming a few ideas for spells that would be, from a combat perspective, useless but from a social and enjoyment perspective would add quite a lot to the game in the long run.
Ghroznak said:Dubah said:Well, most of the spells the above mentions from EQ were mostly group oriented, like someone not in your group couldn't invis you, or give you an illusion or anything like that. Levitate was a buff that everyone welcomed tho, so it was never forced to be grouped. I think the druids wolf form was a group buff too.
However, the spells that someone could cast on you, if you didn't want a levitate, just had to click it off. Nobody ever sat there and constantly levitated someone that didn't want it, at least not on my server lol.
But these spells gave the game a killer side effect, and made the magical world even more magical. It was fun to use some of them, especially levitate, just find a high spot and float off it literally dodging every mob if you did it right. Of course you slowly came down but it was also fun to look below and see everything you were passing. It definitely was a great game with all the fluffs it had.
Druids could cast regular speed buff (Spirit of the Wolf, or short SOW) on anyone. This buff came without illusions. Later they got a personal wolf-illusion spell which transformed the druid into a wolf and also gave them the run-buff. Later still you got a group buff which put the wolf illusion on the entire group (Spirit of the Pack I think it was called, but was just referred to as group-SOW). You could, if I remember, use a chat command or options thing to never show illusions, e.g. if you didn't want to be a wolf).
I also remember a situation we had where a friend who had played only a dark elf Cleric her whole EQ "life" had group-SOW cast on her. She thought her monitor had broken because everything looked yellow. Turned out she had become so used to the Dark Elf darkvision (which made things seem blue'ish) that when she got group-SOW and the same vision as a wolf (which was basically just normal vision) it seemed to her like her monitor broke :D Pretty funny stuff when she panicked until we figured out what it was.
Also, you could always remove buffs as you mentioned. You just clicked them away, whether it was stat buffs, illusions, levitate, run speed et.c. Obviously you couldn't click off debuffs, but there was Cancel Magic spells for that.
I really do hope more people want fun and fluff spells though. They really did make Everquest a more wholesome game and there were so many creative uses for them that people came up with. E.g. as mentioned using levitate to sit above the water while fishing, or using minor illusions to prank someone. Since Pantheon is also going for the "crawl around dungeon" and "pull to a camp" approach instead of the themepark "start at point A, run through dungeon and kill boss then finished" it would help a lot to have some silly spells to pull out to lighten the mood when you've been killing mobs for 5 hours straight.
Maybe some melee classes could have an ability to build a campfire to make it more cozy (sort of useless, but fun and something to gather around), or able to pull out and instrument and play some simple notes, or use an illusion so an area looks like a small grove, a living room or something silly like that instead of it looking like a dank dungeon.
I'm just brainstorming a few ideas for spells that would be, from a combat perspective, useless but from a social and enjoyment perspective would add quite a lot to the game in the long run.
Fun fact about the wolf line of spells : Some ennemies, like Gorenaire the white dragon of the dreadlands snowy part, were non hostile to player (except with faction hurt by kill) but KoS with players in wolf form. Her aggro range beeing huge, you could end up obliterated if you traveled throught the snowy area in wolf form.
MauvaisOeil said:
Fun fact about the wolf line of spells : Some ennemies, like Gorenaire the white dragon of the dreadlands snowy part, were non hostile to player (except with faction hurt by kill) but KoS with players in wolf form. Her aggro range beeing huge, you could end up obliterated if you traveled throught the snowy area in wolf form.
This was also true in Velious near Thurgadin (with the snowy dwarves). The dwarven guards were neutral to everyone, but if you approached while in Wolf form they would instant-aggro and chase you down the silver stream :)
Personally I loved the aggro system in Everquest where they had different reaction/aggro based on your apperance.
With my Enchanter (a High Elf) I used Illusion: Dark Elf on myself and joined a "Dark Elf Only" roleplaying guild. I loved roleplaying and the idea of infiltrating their guild was too good to pass up. So I spent a long time learning the dark elf language (had to spam-chat with someone who knew it to get it to go up) and then met the Dark Elves inside Neriak and got admitted to their guild. I was in the guild for weeks until one day I did my illusions wrong and they saw me after we logged in before I had my dark elf illusion up. I tried to bluff and say I had my High Elf illusion on, but they saw through that ruse. It was actually quite funny when I was found out and we made some good stories out of it :D
It's another great example of how 'fun spells' can be used to enhance roleplaying and such (provided other things allow for it, like the aggro system, being able to be anonymous using the /roleplay command and so forth).
Good memories though, both being chased by angry Thurgadin dwarves and slipping into a Dark Elf guild :)
I remember one of my Enchanter friends in EQ. He played a High Elf... but when the Iksar race came out he really wanted to be an Iksar Enchanter, which was not possible due to the race/class restrictions. But he decided that he WAS an Iksar Enchanter, and so he ALWAYS had Illusion Iksar up at all times. If he died, it was the very first thing he did when he reappeared was 'mem' the illusion Iksar spell and re-cast it on himself. He was so strict with this, that most people we played with didn't realize that he wasn't actually an Iksar, and were often really surprised when they would cast resurrection on his Iksar corpse only to see a High Elf appear (since Ressurection stripped all your buffs) only to change into an Iksar a few seconds later. If he was really quick some people actually didn't even notice that he was a High Elf for those few seconds it took to recast the illusion.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:I remember one of my Enchanter friends in EQ. He played a High Elf... but when the Iksar race came out he really wanted to be an Iksar Enchanter, which was not possible due to the race/class restrictions. But he decided that he WAS an Iksar Enchanter, and so he ALWAYS had Illusion Iksar up at all times. If he died, it was the very first thing he did when he reappeared was 'mem' the illusion Iksar spell and re-cast it on himself. He was so strict with this, that most people we played with didn't realize that he wasn't actually an Iksar, and were often really surprised when they would cast resurrection on his Iksar corpse only to see a High Elf appear (since Ressurection stripped all your buffs) only to change into an Iksar a few seconds later. If he was really quick some people actually didn't even notice that he was a High Elf for those few seconds it took to recast the illusion.
I guarantee you he loved the 'Perma-illusion" AA. Allowing you to zone with it and never require refreshing.
dorotea said:I don't disagree at all - but what a friend may consider a prank a stranger might consider a real annoyance. If there are spells that can affect other players like this there should be an option to be immune to them. Just as many games have options to automatically decline duels. guild invitations, marraige proposals, and the like.
Non combat little things can really make a game more fun and memorable (give us collectibles please even if getting a set or many sets completed gives no reward other than maybe a title).
Agree with the general premise of this. At least make it easy to "click off" any type of effect. One thing that always bugged me in EQ was that you couldn't click off the shrink spell. You had to zone or log out to make it go away.
I hope there will be. I loved a lot of the fun or flavorful spells:
Glimpse, Eye of Zomm, Bind Sight, Levitate, Dead Man Floating, Wolf Form, Bear Form, Boon of the Garou, all the illusion spells (please have these in the game!), many of the magician summoned items, Alliance, Gravity Flux, Shrink, Wake of Karana, and a good number of Bard songs.
Mem blur was a huge one. Being able to manipulate AI in a multitude of ways to include powerleveling people (damage mob to 1-5% health then blur and let newbie kill it). Using it to force gate a mob to spawn using an unfixed exploit, etc.
The range of control of their environment and game mechanics EQ gave a few noted classes was unreal.
Darkintellect said:Mem blur was a huge one. Being able to manipulate AI in a multitude of ways to include powerleveling people (damage mob to 1-5% health then blur and let newbie kill it). Using it to force gate a mob to spawn using an unfixed exploit, etc.
The range of control of their environment and game mechanics EQ gave a few noted classes was unreal.
But that control of the environment is also what really made you feel like your class was different and unique too.
Minor illusions as an enchanter. It's such a simple, little thing, but it really puts you into that Enchanter mindset.
Likewise being a caster and able to levitate others felt special. I remember levitating some newbies with my Druid and they were first confused cause they had never experienced it before... and then they took the elevator to the Kelethin platforms and jumped off, floating down like leaves. It was a simple thing, but it made you feel like you really did some magic and when things like that happened to you as a new player, whether it was levitates, illusions, Spirit of the Wolf or other spells it gave you inspiration and motivation to push through the levels so you too could do these things.
Also things like being able to buff mobs, strip buffs and so on reflected things you could do from your regular pen and paper roleplaying games. The environmental control, or rather interactions, made the game feel more open and free. In a lot of modern MMO's you are completely blocked from doing these things. All spells are group only. There are almost no, if any at all, spells that are non-combat or just flavor abilities for your class.
Sure EQ2 had those fluff spells you could get, but that just felt forced and artificial compared to the freedom and variety of the spells in Everquest which were more naturally a part of what your class could do.
It also doesn't take a lot of work to figure out what type of 'fun spells' could different classes have. Just look at the spell lists from DnD and Everquest. If someone plays a Wizard then what spells can a wizard use? Dancing Lights to brighten an area could be controllable light globules just like a wizard can control them in DnD. You could attach these to players, e.g. the puller or tease the cleric with them. It would open possibilities. Mage Hand to open potentially trapped doors or pulling levers and opening chests... or poking the Warrior in the belly. Dimension Door to cross a crevasse or just to be lazy when walking to the shop across the street.
I mean, DnD has a huge array of spells that aren't combat focused, but moreso to overcome environmental challenges, whether it's related to cliffs, crevasses, climbing, cold, heat, slippery ground, traps, pits and caved in hallways. And most of these would also open up for some creative uses just for fun. Dimension Door someone into the fountain in the park instead of to the city gates for instance.
