Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

How’s Character Creation going to be

    • 11 posts
    April 18, 2018 3:07 PM PDT

    WoW or BDO

    • 3852 posts
    April 18, 2018 4:27 PM PDT

    No. It is going to be Pantheon.

    Any particular reason to highlight those two out of the scores or hundreds of MMOs? Something special you hope to see?

    • 613 posts
    April 18, 2018 5:08 PM PDT

    Well the current version we have seen on streams is a good indication in what direction VR is going.  The details are still not fully known yet.  From the OP’s range listed it won’t be either of those. 

     

    Ox

    • 2886 posts
    April 19, 2018 2:38 AM PDT

    In this thread, I posted a pic of the most recent version of the character creation tool that we've seen in Pantheon. As Ox said, you can probably expect something similar at launch, but presumably with a few more improvements: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/8331/how-far-will-the-character-creation-customization-will-go


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at April 19, 2018 2:38 AM PDT
    • 2756 posts
    April 19, 2018 3:00 AM PDT

    Please not BDO.

    You had to have a degree in graphic design and anatomy to use that ridiculousness.


    This post was edited by disposalist at April 19, 2018 3:01 AM PDT
    • 945 posts
    April 19, 2018 8:37 AM PDT

    There are aspects of BDO character creation that I absolutely LOVE and would be super excited if they were in pantheon, primarily because the specific features I’m referring to are the antithesis of what I absolutely hated about EQ’s character creation; let me explain. 

    In EQ, your character creation (originally) relied solely upon some flavor text that ultimately had very little to do with the strengths, weaknesses or even play style of your character.  You had no idea what you character would look like in the type of armor the devs decide that you will be forced to wear at end game, and even as a melee, you didn’t really even know what weapons you would be using primarily. What bdo did in complete contrast to this was put a simple gif in the corner of the screen that displayed an animation of the class at different stages of the game as well as allowing the player to cycle through different armor appearances (similar to ESO character creation) so you can see how the different armor looks on different races.  A player may select to be a Skar DL instead of a human solely because they may look absolutely cool in their end game armor compared to the human or whatever else they were deciding; or maybe the different races of monks have different fighting styles.  Finding out that you wish you made a different race several months or even years later because you see someone else for the first time is terribly demotivating.  I remember seeing a erudite SHD for the first time in EQ and hating the fact that I struggled so much as a DE because they had higher INT and looked cooler than human, ogre and trolls but I could have just went ERD and probably had my epic weapon literally years sooner and looked just as cool in metallic samurai-like armor. 

    Side note: if WoW had this feature I would not have made an undead if I saw that equipping all armor looked like it was decomposing, showing my fingers, toes, elbows, knees and ribs... even in endgame magical full plate

    edit: I don’t think the OP was referring to the character “customization” (which was overly in depth) as much as the sneak peek of the character’s future appearance and more importantly combat play style/animations at end game. 


    This post was edited by Darch at April 19, 2018 8:42 AM PDT
    • 1860 posts
    April 19, 2018 9:31 AM PDT

    From what we have seen in the Jim Lee stream, character creation is going to be very basic. 

    Personally, I would like more stat/skill choice type of options. 

    While I'm not expecting character creation that is as extensive as pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons, DDO had the best character creation process out of any game I've played imho.  Any extra stat allocations and ability choices they can give us on creation, and as the character progresses, is positive in my eyes. (We understand it requires extra balancing).

    Anything to differentiate one character from another within the same race/class is a good thing.  Eventually everyone gathers all the best gear and all the best abilities and are basically cookie cutter identical except for any other given choices like those given on creation.


    This post was edited by philo at April 19, 2018 9:36 AM PDT
    • 1281 posts
    April 19, 2018 9:36 AM PDT

    philo said:

    From what we have seen in the Jim Lee stream, character creation is going to be very basic. 

    Personally, I would like more stat/skill choice type of options. 

    While I'm not expecting character creation that is extensive as pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons, DDO had the best character creation process out of any game I've played imho.  Any extra stat allocations and ability choices they can give us on creation, and as the character progresses, is positive in my eyes. 

    Anything to differentiate one character from another within the same race/class is a good thing.  Eventually everyone gathers all the best gear and all the best abilities and are basically cookie cutter identical except for any other given choices like those given on creation.

    Keep in mind that in the Twitch stream with Jim, they are still in pre-alpha.  I suspect that the character creation system will be one of the latter items really worked on.  It's not as important, early on, to get right as game mechanics and content are.  I suspect that they will do more with it once they are pretty happy with what's happening with in-game development.

    • 1860 posts
    April 19, 2018 9:59 AM PDT

    Kalok said:

    Keep in mind that in the Twitch stream with Jim, they are still in pre-alpha.  I suspect that the character creation system will be one of the latter items really worked on.  It's not as important, early on, to get right as game mechanics and content are.  I suspect that they will do more with it once they are pretty happy with what's happening with in-game development.

    Sure but like anything else, sometimes to a fault, we compare everything to EQ.  EQ had a very basic character creation system and what we saw was almost identical (I'm referring to stat allotment and skill choices etc...not cosmetic).  On the other end of the spectrum we have games like DDO that based character creation around the pen and paper system. 

    Joppa made a statement recently that character progression would not be decision based where you choose "this ability or this ability or having this skill or this skill."  He was referring to progression throughout the game and not character creation specifically but, I feel that those either/or decisions are important and VR is missing a chance to let players feel like their character is unique and their own.  Otherwise, over the long run, characters within the same class end up feeling mostly the same. 

    I'm in favor of having more of these type of either/or choices on creation (and throughout the game).  Even when character creation is worked on, from what we know, the plan is not to offer the type of options that I am referring to. 

    Maybe there is a chance that could change?  Like always, I'll stay positively hopeful.

     


    This post was edited by philo at April 19, 2018 10:00 AM PDT
    • 39 posts
    April 19, 2018 1:41 PM PDT

    It's interesting how EQ ran almost 10 years without people feeling their characters were the same as strangers...

    • 945 posts
    October 15, 2018 6:51 AM PDT

    Squall said:

    It's interesting how EQ ran almost 10 years without people feeling their characters were the same as strangers...

    This is far from true and in fact the opposite happened, which is why they made so many appearance changes in the expansions.

    I have some ideas on how ot make character creation (not solely CUSTOMIZATION) a bit less painful and perhaps unique to PRotF.  

    Traditional style:
    1. Choose Race and Gender
    2. Customize name and appearance (if applicable)
    3. Choose Class
    4. Choose starting area (if applicable)

    My proposal/idea:
    1.  Choose a Role (Tank, CC, Heal, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS) based solely on descriptions
    2.  Once role is selected the next screen displays a human of each class available to that role in level 50 gear (similar to ESO) along with a toggle between male/female
          a.  i.e.  A human Dire Lord standing in chain dual wielding, and human Paladin standing with a great sword and a human Warrior standing with sword-n-board
          b.  Underneath those human avatars is a list of all other available races for that class, at which point you can select one and the avatar will change to that race so that you can have a side by side comparison of the other options.   (Being able to easily compare a Halfling Druid to an Ogre Druid may be something that really makes a difference for people and ultimately helps keep people around for a longer duration by avoiding the fact that people are going to "invest" a lot of time and money into something and expect to be happy with their results instead of find out that their character looks like a hobo compared to another race with identical gear.
    3.  THEN you do character customization

    Another very cool feature that I mentioned before was the .GIF combat animations from BDO that we mentioned earlier in this post.  Being able to see some of your character's combat animations at end game may deter or persuade you to play a different combination of race/class/role altogether.  If people see a gif of a summoner conjuring some monstrous pet or a Paladin fighting off an entire horde of undead with their divine wall of fire ability (fiery aegis) they may be persuaded/inspired to be that character.   In the bottom right corner of this video shows the class combat preview as you select a different class in BDO's class selection portion:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzFgtGY2rkc

    • 646 posts
    October 15, 2018 8:14 AM PDT

    I definitely hope they expand the character creation significantly from what they've shown in the past.

    At the very least, we need some basic body customization - either selecting from preset body types (a la WildStar, GW2) or body sliders (a la Blade and Soul, Bless). And for the women, please give us a breast slider, because male game devs always seem to make boobs a LOT bigger than they need to be and I always want to shrink them.

    There are a few face sliders in the image Bazgrim linked, but there are some significant ones I think are missing: jaw width, chin protrusion, chin width, cheekbone height, eye tilt, brow tilt, lip width separate from lip thickness, nose width at the base separate from nose bridge width... Probably others I can't think of.

    And most importantly, I sure hope they give us an actually decent spread of skin/eye/hair color options, and HAIR STYLES. Hair style is crazily important, and so many game devs seem to have never looked at hair in their entire life. Either hairstyles get way over-the-top and strange, or you get stuck with very basic male crew cuts and female "bimbo" styles. If you're lucky, you get a ponytail. Please oh please oh please have a large number of different hair styles from short to medium to long (like 20+).

    • 1479 posts
    October 15, 2018 8:21 AM PDT

    Naunet said:

    At the very least, we need some basic body customization - either selecting from preset body types (a la WildStar, GW2) or body sliders (a la Blade and Soul, Bless). And for the women, please give us a breast slider, because male game devs always seem to make boobs a LOT bigger than they need to be and I always want to shrink them.

    If they do, I want a crotch slider for mens. Can't stand the flat crotch design of TESO.

    • 646 posts
    October 15, 2018 8:34 AM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:If they do, I want a crotch slider for mens. Can't stand the flat crotch design of TESO.

    In the name of equality, I will support this! At least it looks like they're not shying away from shading nipples on guys (looking at you, Square Enix). So you'll look a bit less like a Ken doll.

    • 1479 posts
    October 15, 2018 8:47 AM PDT

    Naunet said:

    MauvaisOeil said:If they do, I want a crotch slider for mens. Can't stand the flat crotch design of TESO.

    In the name of equality, I will support this! At least it looks like they're not shying away from shading nipples on guys (looking at you, Square Enix). So you'll look a bit less like a Ken doll.

     

    FFXIV is so much modded thoses times, it can even look like another game :/,  but yeah : Having a game that is realistic enough to make character feel complete withouth sliding into erotism (or just enough... 8) ) would be really great.

    • 2419 posts
    October 15, 2018 8:47 AM PDT

    Warlunhardt said:

    WoW or BDO

    You forgot the ARK character creator.  Holy moly you could get some outrageous body configurations.  Imagine the hilarity of seeing these in Pantheon.

    • 1479 posts
    October 15, 2018 8:49 AM PDT

    @Vandraad

     

    Please no.

    • 3852 posts
    October 15, 2018 10:07 AM PDT

    And most importantly, I sure hope they give us an actually decent spread of skin/eye/hair color options, and HAIR STYLES. Hair style is crazily important, and so many game devs seem to have never looked at hair in their entire life. Either hairstyles get way over-the-top and strange, or you get stuck with very basic male crew cuts and female "bimbo" styles. If you're lucky, you get a ponytail. Please oh please oh please have a large number of different hair styles from short to medium to long (like 20+).

     

     

    This. As we adventure we see the hair - not the boobs or the crotch.

    • 2419 posts
    October 15, 2018 10:09 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    And most importantly, I sure hope they give us an actually decent spread of skin/eye/hair color options, and HAIR STYLES. Hair style is crazily important, and so many game devs seem to have never looked at hair in their entire life. Either hairstyles get way over-the-top and strange, or you get stuck with very basic male crew cuts and female "bimbo" styles. If you're lucky, you get a ponytail. Please oh please oh please have a large number of different hair styles from short to medium to long (like 20+).

    This. As we adventure we see the hair - not the boobs or the crotch.

    If you play in 3rd person.  For those of us who only play in 1st person we live vicariously through the character creation choices of others.  :)

    • 1479 posts
    October 15, 2018 10:12 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    This. As we adventure we see the hair - not the boobs or the crotch.

     

    Depends where you're adventuring m'lady ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) .

    • 646 posts
    October 15, 2018 10:42 AM PDT

    dorotea said:This. As we adventure we see the hair - not the boobs or the crotch.

    I mean, the whole package is important to me (hence the rest of my post xD). As a roleplayer, it's super important that I can make the character as close to what I imagine in my head as possible. But yeah, hair is critical.

    • 945 posts
    October 15, 2018 11:27 AM PDT

    Naunet said:

    dorotea said:This. As we adventure we see the hair - not the boobs or the crotch.

    I mean, the whole package is important to me (hence the rest of my post xD). As a roleplayer, it's super important that I can make the character as close to what I imagine in my head as possible. But yeah, hair is critical.

    I agree that the whole package is important to allow a player to fully immerse into their character/environment.  This is why I like the idea of being able to view your character as they would appear in lvl 50 armor (similar to ESO character creation).  Something that would enhance player immersion even more would being able to view their characters combat animations in a short .gif because maybe some people are expecting the cleric to be a sit/stand/cast/sit played class but the devs really want the end game cleric in the thick of the melee, but the druid may be more of the sit/stand/cast/sit healer for example.

    • 646 posts
    October 15, 2018 11:43 AM PDT

    Darch said:I agree that the whole package is important to allow a player to fully immerse into their character/environment.  This is why I like the idea of being able to view your character as they would appear in lvl 50 armor (similar to ESO character creation).  Something that would enhance player immersion even more would being able to view their characters combat animations in a short .gif because maybe some people are expecting the cleric to be a sit/stand/cast/sit played class but the devs really want the end game cleric in the thick of the melee, but the druid may be more of the sit/stand/cast/sit healer for example.

    This would be awesome! Love these ideas. Rift also does the preview-in-different-armor-sets thing, and I've always appreciated that. Sample combat animations would also be a great addition.

    I've always liked FFXIV's benchmark client - ostensibly for getting a metric of how well the game will play on your computer, but it includes a full character creation feature and can be messed around in without actually logging into the game (or even having the game installed).

    • 752 posts
    October 15, 2018 11:58 AM PDT
    For me i just want more face/hair options. Instead of 10 i want like 30. I dont need complex i just want different and random.
    • 3852 posts
    October 15, 2018 2:55 PM PDT

    I do agree the more the merrier - including the fronts of the characters. Other people see them, and we see them when we want to.

    My point was merely that if they could give us a nice selection of hair styles or a lot of detail on the face, or ((cough)) other places ((cough)) I place the higher priority on the hair.

    I don't disagree with anything people are requesting though the crotch slider should get a *really* low priority. Unless our characters can go bottomless the way Age of Conan characters could go topless. Then let's raise priority on the crotch slider quite a bit.