Forums » The Cleric

Does Cleric have anything new for them ?

    • 90 posts
    April 17, 2018 5:59 AM PDT

    Loking back on pax and some information about  the 3 healing classes it just looks like the cleric is att the end of a short stick,why you wonder ?

    every healing class can heal more or less equally and every healing class get resurect. So why even choose a cleric they cant really dish out any notable dps and they dont really do cc. We are kinda low on solo ability and movement buff/debuffs

    even joppa mention att pax that shaman was better att keeping the group alive jikes talk about feeling downgraded.

    In most of the widieos i just see joppa doing a ton of sitting on his butt and meditate and when things get abit hectic just blow away all the mana and start again sitting on his butt(poor cleric must be having a cold everyday)

    we dont have any Cannibalize or clarity line att least what i can se, and when it comes to undead fights havent seen a single spell even directed against them maybe they just are bad.

    So have cleric anything going for them ? Do they have a identity ? 

     

     

    • 3728 posts
    April 17, 2018 6:51 AM PDT

    Yes, each healing class can heal and rez a group equally well, but the important distinction is that they each do so differently. I don't believe Joppa ever actually said that the Shaman would be better at keeping a group alive. The Cleric's identity is in direct healing, and doing so in large amounts. There will be situations in which these types of heals are preferred over the HoTs of a Shaman or the "indirect" heals of a Druid. They will of course have some other utility spells as well, especially buffs. But I think one of the most unique or "new" things about the Cleric in Pantheon is in fact their iconic ability:

    [Manifest: Pillar Shield] - High level Clerics can manifest, place and even carry massive Pillar Shields. These huge, luminous walls of energy form towering, immovable barriers that, for a limited duration, no enemy can pass. But, if desired, the Cleric can choose to sheath his weapon so that he may carry the Pillar Shield short distances to a better position before resuming the fight.

    As far as what we've seen on streams, the combat still has a long of balancing and tuning to be done, so don't expect it to be entirely representative of combat at launch. For example, the goal is that Clerics will indeed be very adept vs undead. We've only seen the Cleric in the first ~20 levels or so. There's a lot more going on than meets the eye. I'm not worried :)

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/classes/cleric/

    • 2496 posts
    April 17, 2018 10:23 AM PDT

    I would like to see more iconic abilities featured in the streams.  We have seen Feign Death featured a few times for monks but nothing for the other classes quite yet.  I think it's possible that some of these iconic abilities ultimately end up changing.  I like the idea of the Pillar Shield for clerics.  Lethargy seems pretty basic for shamans but I imagine it being extremely useful.  The rogue flask is the one I'm not quite sold on just yet but that could change big time once we learn what kind of random effects that can be triggered from hurling it.  I'm also curious about what level these iconic abilities will become available.  Monks seemed to get FD pretty early on.

    • 90 posts
    April 17, 2018 10:35 AM PDT

    Not sure what the big distinction in healing in a diferent way even matter ? like warrior got whacked by 100 damage he gets healed for 100 point of damage = warrior happy i mean healing is healing.not how but that he is healed is the point i guess !

    And that manifest thing is debateble if it is even remotly useful (until i have tried it)

    my point in this thread is not to whine and hate/anger more like what is the identity of the cleric going, what direction is this class headed anything new like a new kind of buff perhaps like a mana pool buff 

    every healer can resurect so perhaps a slow spell, or sow  perhaps ,or a pet maybe a snare anything...

    sure what i read about the cleric description(ehum abit outdated perhaps like a couple of years) we can handle undead but i think most of the dps classes will do mutch better job anyway (and they should)

    paladins will shine when going against undead so not really sure clerics are that mutch use against undead after all just my 2 cents.

    Still the game is only in pre-alpha and very little information is realesed because nothing is set in stone so no need to remind me of that =)

    • 1982 posts
    April 17, 2018 11:22 AM PDT

    I imagine clerics will be the most reliable healers when it comes to tense situations/"oh ****" moments, being focused on strong direct healing. It's also possible they are the only healers with a targetable absorb shield (mentioned a few times by Joppa now), the best HP/AC buffs, strong vs undead via damage and/or protections for the group, and who knows what else they might bring. They might even have passive aura group buffs as well as the most powerful resurrect (the least amount of penalties/negative effects and/or full hp & mana upon rez).

     

    It's far too early to jump to conclusions that they are missing anything or are behind other healers because we don't know even a quarter of the clerics abilities, let alone what exactly the other healers are going to bring to the table. Too many assumptions based on other games. 

    • 346 posts
    April 17, 2018 11:24 AM PDT

    Well, for instance, lets say a raid mob dots the tank for 300dmg a tick The shaman can then HOT that 300 dmg a tick effectively with multiple HOT's negating that dmg for a certain duration until the HOTs are recasted. Then lets say the raid boss starts whacking the tank for 600dmg. The cleric has a heal for 600dmg lets say and negates the hit that way. If the HOT's weren't there the cleric would be losing the healing by 300, or would have to be casting much more frequently draining the clerics mana. The druid, I assume, would be indirect healing and possibly aoe healing with enviroment spells. If the raid mob has huge aoes going off the druids should be able to mitigate that. This is a micro example of course.

    Also, all healing classes will probably have subar mixing of these attributes. For instance, Cleric will have the biggest single target heal, while probably having some type of aoe heal, the Shaman the best HOT's while the having decent direct healing and slow, and druid the best aoe healing while the druid will have the indirect heal method that will also dps probably and heal a little better than the shaman, since shaman has slows. I honestly don't know what these priest classes will have, especially the druid since there really is no information on the druid other than climate playing a big role with them.

    Anyways, the point is that the priest classes should be able to output the same amount of healing as any other. There are 3 primary healers, if one is better than the two in terms of healing output, then why pick the other two in a group setting. Anyways, it's all about balancing the healing output while making these 3 priest classes unique and fun and can be equal in a neutral area and advantaged and disadvanteged when certain enviroment and mob mechanics come into play.

    • 33 posts
    April 18, 2018 8:42 PM PDT

    I'm rolling a Cleric in pre-alpha and this thread helps me to solidify my decision to roll a Cleric. 

    • 67 posts
    April 27, 2018 8:13 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Yes, each healing class can heal and rez a group equally well, but the important distinction is that they each do so differently. I don't believe Joppa ever actually said that the Shaman would be better at keeping a group alive. The Cleric's identity is in direct healing, and doing so in large amounts. There will be situations in which these types of heals are preferred over the HoTs of a Shaman or the "indirect" heals of a Druid. They will of course have some other utility spells as well, especially buffs. But I think one of the most unique or "new" things about the Cleric in Pantheon is in fact their iconic ability:

    [Manifest: Pillar Shield] - High level Clerics can manifest, place and even carry massive Pillar Shields. These huge, luminous walls of energy form towering, immovable barriers that, for a limited duration, no enemy can pass. But, if desired, the Cleric can choose to sheath his weapon so that he may carry the Pillar Shield short distances to a better position before resuming the fight.

    As far as what we've seen on streams, the combat still has a long of balancing and tuning to be done, so don't expect it to be entirely representative of combat at launch. For example, the goal is that Clerics will indeed be very adept vs undead. We've only seen the Cleric in the first ~20 levels or so. There's a lot more going on than meets the eye. I'm not worried :)

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/classes/cleric/

     

    As long as the non-healing kits are reasonably equal as well as the healing kits it's fine.  If they aren't, though, it's a pretty big issue for the class(es) lacking the extras but healing at the same level. 

    Honestly that manifest ability doesn't really impress me that much.  It's situational at best since in most cases the mobs will just go around it to come at you so there needs to be some sort of blocking terrain available at one end to make it even remotely useful (to funnel the mobs into the "front" of the group).

    • 1074 posts
    April 29, 2018 5:56 AM PDT

    What I saw during Thehiveleader's stream, looked pretty interesting. I couldn't catch every spell's tooltip, but there was a rune-like spell that allowed some pace in healing, a hammer strike costing stamina (really good for a mana based class), and an AC buff line seemingly on "etheral armor line".

     

    The wiki is begining to sort spells, but for now I guess they only have the icons and names of thoses spells from the opened and flipping spellbook, but not the actual spells effects :

     

    https://pantheonriseofthefallen.gamepedia.com/Cleric/Abilities

    • 118 posts
    May 5, 2018 9:49 AM PDT

    I haven't seen the different colors of mana either though. This doesn't mean they wont exist but that they are just not in yet. The idea with the different colors of mana would be that white mana may be for healing but say blue could be for damaging abilities or something. Clerics will likely have some power against undeath and disease. The nice thing is if they implement the colored mana then you can use these abilities without taxing your healing mana so unlike EQ where you had abilities you weren't allowed ot use now you can.

    Also there are other areas they could be that the other classes are not. Cleansing debuffs has not been mentioned yet. Buffing with spells to enhance your team is another option. Damage reduction or shields are another possibility. I have my doubts they wont feel fun or unique. I expect them to be quite popular and will likely be my secondary class or even main depending how I feel at beta whenever that comes.

    I would like to see less meditating during fights though. I think meditating during a fight is an outdated feature and leads to boring gameplay. If a cleric is stucking sitting during even 50% of the fight it's not good.

    • 125 posts
    May 5, 2018 12:08 PM PDT

    In each of the two streams that have specifially shown a healer's POV (shaman & cleric) I've looked specifically at the mana usage - NOT the spells & spell types.

    To me the cleric is just fine at Direct Heal, shaman at HoTs, and druid at AoE. I understand that there will be situations where each type of healer will have a bit of stress keeping the group alive and in other situations just cruising. To me that is what I want as a healer - figuring out ways/means to keep the group alive in a bad situation! I do not want easy-street whack-a-mole healing all of the time!

    So I'm not worried about the heal styles.

    To me mana usage is the "thing" - without mana no one can heal. In those two streams I mentioned it seemed to me that the cleric had some serious mana issues and that the shammy had virtually none. I say "virtually" here, cos in the oh sh@t situations their mana dropped significantly. But you would expect that! But the clerics mana was low continuously.

    In the cleric POV stream, the added shammy eased the burden of mana usage for the cleric. But it was still bad. Take a look, you will see the mana bar of the cleric is usually at only a 3rd (and sometimes really low) of their bar after a fight, where as when the shammy who was healing - in the 1st stream shammy POV - their mana usage was much more reasonable - sometimes going down, but usually in the 1/2 to 2/3 full bar range after a fight.

    Yes, that worried me a little.

    In my early mmo days, I played a Holy Paladin from WoW vanilla - through several xpacs. And as a direct healer, mana was always an issue! So much so, I ended up moth-balling my pally. At the end of my WoW days (late last year), my much loved holy pally was just an ALT and had been for a significant amount of time.

    I want to be a cleric healer. I like the stress of single-target healing, but I don't want to be a mana-junkie, swilling pots all the time :D

     

     

    • 1074 posts
    May 5, 2018 1:18 PM PDT

    Alpha numbers I guess. Can't judge mana consumption for now.

    I do remember that holy paladins in early wow were the kings of mana preservation with a return of mana on crit associated with a null usage of spirit (mana regen inactive during casts and 3 or 5 seconds after ), and of course a really cheap flash of light.

     

    Other classes had to rely on partial spirit recovery (35% while casting) and getting a full tick of regen between casts).

    • 3728 posts
    May 6, 2018 9:44 AM PDT

    Koala said:

    In each of the two streams that have specifially shown a healer's POV (shaman & cleric) I've looked specifically at the mana usage - NOT the spells & spell types.

    To me the cleric is just fine at Direct Heal, shaman at HoTs, and druid at AoE. I understand that there will be situations where each type of healer will have a bit of stress keeping the group alive and in other situations just cruising. To me that is what I want as a healer - figuring out ways/means to keep the group alive in a bad situation! I do not want easy-street whack-a-mole healing all of the time!

    So I'm not worried about the heal styles.

    To me mana usage is the "thing" - without mana no one can heal. In those two streams I mentioned it seemed to me that the cleric had some serious mana issues and that the shammy had virtually none. I say "virtually" here, cos in the oh sh@t situations their mana dropped significantly. But you would expect that! But the clerics mana was low continuously.

    In the cleric POV stream, the added shammy eased the burden of mana usage for the cleric. But it was still bad. Take a look, you will see the mana bar of the cleric is usually at only a 3rd (and sometimes really low) of their bar after a fight, where as when the shammy who was healing - in the 1st stream shammy POV - their mana usage was much more reasonable - sometimes going down, but usually in the 1/2 to 2/3 full bar range after a fight.

    Yes, that worried me a little.

    In my early mmo days, I played a Holy Paladin from WoW vanilla - through several xpacs. And as a direct healer, mana was always an issue! So much so, I ended up moth-balling my pally. At the end of my WoW days (late last year), my much loved holy pally was just an ALT and had been for a significant amount of time.

    I want to be a cleric healer. I like the stress of single-target healing, but I don't want to be a mana-junkie, swilling pots all the time :D

    I think it's too small a sample size to really judge yet, especially since both players were thrown onto a lvl 20 toon without any practice. Koopa on the Shaman wasn't having mana issues partly because he was barely using any abilities at all lol, as evidenced by the amount of wipes they had. HiveLeader on the Cleric may have been overhealing, because he was playing according to what he's used to with Clerics in other games. Either way, I want to main a Cleric too but it's still way too early for me to use the word "worried" as mana costs and such will absolutely get tweaked a lot throughout testing. 

    • 125 posts
    May 6, 2018 11:29 AM PDT

    Yes, you're right Bazgrim - in that it's early days. But there was that niggly little worry back there when I saw HiveLeader sitting down "a lot". I know they will tweak things. One thing I did absolutely love was the spell effects from both healers! So pretty.

    I do look forward to seeing a cleric play.

    • 3728 posts
    May 7, 2018 5:17 AM PDT

    Koala said:

    Yes, you're right Bazgrim - in that it's early days. But there was that niggly little worry back there when I saw HiveLeader sitting down "a lot". I know they will tweak things. One thing I did absolutely love was the spell effects from both healers! So pretty.

    I do look forward to seeing a cleric play.

    Agreed. Also, I thought it was cool to see the tome that Clerics carry. I guess that's something else that, to answer the OP's question further, is pretty unique to Clerics in Pantheon. I am a fan of Clerics carrying large shields, but I also do like the books.

    • 255 posts
    May 7, 2018 1:33 PM PDT

    Clerics dual wielding one hand blunts ---*


    This post was edited by Retsof at May 7, 2018 1:34 PM PDT