Forums » The Ranger

Rangers, play-style and options.

    • 477 posts
    April 11, 2018 12:45 PM PDT

    In the recent interview with Joppa, Rangers are described as primary melee class that will use ranged attacks to disengage from melee combat, and use ranged attacks to engage again in melee combat, so they'll be constantly switching between melee and ranged, and use animal companions to complement their tool kit, (at least that's what I understood).

    I'm perfectly fine with this play-style, but some players seem to see the ranger as a ranged only class, and this melee/ranged "hybrid" play style does not suit them. Since there's no other full ranged Physical class in Pantheon, rangers should be able to fill that role.

    My suggestion is giving rangers a HUGE toolkit to facility all manner of play-styles, so the players are given the freedom to choose from a variety of spells, abilities, and skills that allows them to build the character the way they wanna play. So for example, if someone wants to play a ranger as a full melee class with animal companions they can, purely based on the action bar skill set-up they choose. If they wanna play as a full ranged physical dmg class, all they need to do is fill their action bars with the multiple ranged physical damage abilities/skills they have a their disposal in the spellbook. Maybe they wanna be a ranged/melee character that plays like Joppa described, again all they need to do is change their action bar set up to match their playstyle.

    There will always be an optimal way to play a class, but that doesn't mean it has to be the only way of playing it, giving the option to completely change or adjust the play-style of a class as versatile as the ranger, based only on the action bar skill set-up, would be amazing, because so many people see the ranger class working in very distinct ways.


    This post was edited by jpedrote at April 11, 2018 2:44 PM PDT
    • 198 posts
    April 11, 2018 1:21 PM PDT

    I don't mind the melee/range mix of the stated Ranger, but giving the option of becoming more of an archer archetype I think would be good, it is a very popular type. And I think something like that will be offered through specilizations, where you could focus more on the ranged ascped and all the melee tools you have are made for getting back to ranged again.

    This topic would also probably fit better in the Ranger class forum.

    • 477 posts
    April 11, 2018 2:37 PM PDT

    @Youmu

    Oh my bad, the class forums are so underutilized I completly forgot about it....

    I don't think specialization will work as in most other games, where you chose 1 of 3 option and specialize in that spec (like wow for example), it will be more of an integral part of the game, you have all the skills out in the world and all you need to do to sepcialize in an area of your class is aquire those skills/abilities from your class maters that are "hidden" in the depths of dungeons and are in general a hard task to get to. So for example let's take the monk as an example, you have the Body and you have the Soul specializations, if you choose to pursue one of the specialization you'll not be blocked of the other one, because all skills are shared, but since you went after and colect all the "Body" skills you'll be better suit for that "specialization" if you build your action bar load out, with your Body skills, but if later on you choose to colect all the Soul skills/abilities you'll still have all your body skills available, the only thing that will determine your "spec" will be the current active skills/abilities you choose for your action bar load out.

    They touched on this in the last cohh stream. " https://youtu.be/QWgKSQJtHrA?t=5138

    • 2476 posts
    April 11, 2018 4:21 PM PDT

    It's extremely difficult to balance ranged physical classes, especially next to casters.

     

    How do you make their damage work without feeling like and/or taking away from casters: "This guy just did near the same damage with an arrow that I did pulling a comet down from the sky..."

    Are they putting out comparable DPS despite also having heavier armor/more survivability than casters?

    Are they still able to melee AND have pets on top of that?

    Can they do different physical damage types or are they limited to piercing? If they can then how do you reconcile the more simple rock/paper/scissors of physical resists with casters having to worry about a long list of magical resistances?

     

    • 198 posts
    April 11, 2018 4:45 PM PDT

    The "problem" of magic not lining up with real world expectation has always existed. How does a Rogues with daggers do as much dps as me with balls of flame? You have to ignore those kind of logical holes for the sake of balance in this case.

    If Wizards, Rogues and Rangers are all considered to be DPS classes (which they are), they should be doing comparable damage with each other, a ranger having heavier armour could be to the detrement of not having as much general utility to bring.

    What is the problem of being melee and having a pet? Why would being melee make any difference?

    Magic generally have weaknesse and strenghts while physical ones usually only have weaknesses. You will find mobs weak to fire more often than you will find something that is weak to piercing, so magic has higher highs and lower lows while physical is more stable in my mind.


    I see the Ranger as the most mobile ranged dps. With Summoners as second and Wizard at last place. A ranger would be less about standing still and casting and more about being mobile and able to go in and out.

    • 2476 posts
    April 11, 2018 5:02 PM PDT

    It's not about total damage over a fight, it's about how/when the damage is delivered. Magic is bursty DPS - big spectacle with big numbers, while physical/melee dps like rogue tend to do steady/consistant damage with auto-attacks and small spikes from abilities.  So where in that would ranger fit? 

     

    Being able to do roughly equal DPS to casters while being more mobile, have a pet, able to melee when desired/needed, able to use heavier armors, possibly able to change damage types between piercing/blunting to cover bases, also potentially having access to magic... 

     

    As for no/very limited utility: maybe if they made a class called "archer" but utility is sort of a big part of classic ranger identity. 

    • 198 posts
    April 11, 2018 5:12 PM PDT

    I think the assumption made that the ranger will be able to go in and out of melee whenever he wants might be wrong. As it sounded to me, a Ranger will be forced to switch between them to do optimal damage, having to go into the fray and therefore requiring heavier armour, they cannot rely on dodging the way a Rouge or Monk might. So if you think of them as not having a choice in when they go melee, I think some of these things make more sense.

    I do not mean they would have no utility, just very specialized utility, such as outdoor trap finding (that was mentioned in the recent interview).

    Having a pet could mean a bunch of things, we do not know how significant it is, it could just be a bit of damage or more of a support thing.

     

     

    • 745 posts
    April 11, 2018 5:25 PM PDT
    I can’t see a ranger as range only. Thats an archer not a ranger. A ranger is up in the thick of it when he needs to but should do that cautiously. I just dont want to see rangers as the butt of the joke. They need dps on par with rogue.
    • 2476 posts
    April 11, 2018 5:32 PM PDT

    Youmu said:

    I think the assumption made that the ranger will be able to go in and out of melee whenever he wants might be wrong. As it sounded to me, a Ranger will be forced to switch between them to do optimal damage, having to go into the fray and therefore requiring heavier armour, they cannot rely on dodging the way a Rouge or Monk might. So if you think of them as not having a choice in when they go melee, I think some of these things make more sense.

    Yeah, but I am speaking toward the idea proposed of having them (or any physical damage class) be ranged only/primarily. VR's proposed ranger (or the blurb we have to go on anyway) sounds rather good to me and like a nice unique playstyle.

    • 198 posts
    April 11, 2018 5:35 PM PDT

    Forsaking the melee would be forsaking some damage, that makes sense to me. You might be able to specialize in it by gearing and ability selection, but that would never be as effective as the mixed up style.